Denonimize GTL

[axx]

Aight, here for some heat.

 

Full disclaimer first, so I'll start by saying that I do often flip things from GTL and in a good day I can make half a million in profits per hour invested and often more.

So yeah, I'm part of the problem.

 

By listing seller names it is possible to identify regular flippers and avoid our bs if the buyer decides to do so.

 

Here you might argue "ill just use alts lol." Well I believe they should do something about alts at some point, but that's for a different topic.

 

Flipping just creates problems for the game as many people buys for the sake of buying and so the listings get bloated with stuff that takes ages to get sold. If the price remains fair, then the regular users will have more incentives to buy things they actually need.

 

Even if you believe that an anonymous market has some advantages (it does prevent buyer bias), flipping is only the smaller issue. Market manipulation has become a major issue as of late, particularly when it comes to cosmetics. Just the other day somebody bought all the pillar hats and started listing them for outrageous amounts when their regular price is a few hundred thousand pokeyen. If the GTL lists the seller names then this strategy would be less effective as you can see somebody is posting multiple listings for different prices.

 

Furthermore, listing seller names can prove effective for teams as they can advice their members to prioritize buying stuff from their team mates. Right now this can be done offline, but it takes longer and not everybody can coordinate due to rl schedules.

 

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An additional thing i'd like to suggest is to add a cool-down to the refresh button. This will go a long way in mitigating flipping and bot-sniping.

 

 

[Imperial]

As a regular trader and GTL flipper myself, I have to disagree with this and find that the community as a whole won't care.

 

Vanities which have been re-listed as a high price will usually always drop back down as demand > price. If the person stocks up on all of these items but can't re-sell, they'll be forced to drop the price back down anyway. Unless the vanities are extremely rare (e.g. Ghost costume) then it requires massive investment and demand will always increase on these items anyway. Regarding the items which are obtainable in the Poke Mart (e.g. Teddy ears) the devs fixed this issue in the latest update by including their store price, so it's hard to abuse this.

Shiny trading is a common technique of flipping, but requires thorough knowledge of the market and what shinies will sell quicker than others.

 

Listings such as Amulet Coins are a separate issue, which many users including myself are suspicious that people are botting these items - but they are always desirable so will sell regardless.

 

I understand the issue with manipulating the GTL market, but even if you show the names it still won't solve the problem, if the person has the cash to stock up on all the items then that's their choice, they're following the rules and they probably won't mind being identified.

 

GTL flipping itself is a source of income, it takes knowledge of the market and skill in which Pokemon / items are the best to invest in. It's also great because you don't always need to be active in the Trade chat spamming the same thing repeatedly. 

 

Bot-sniping can be an issue, but with thousands of users actively opening GTL at once, this will probably be difficult to implement.

[axx]

So you are against listing seller names because?

[Imperial]

4 minutes ago, axx said:

So you are against listing seller names because?

Because the whole point of GTL is for players to be anonymous - I'm not against it overall just find it pointless and I'm sure I'm not the only one who does.

 

We all know that a section of the community abuses the market, names won't make a difference and as it's not a bannable offence why do we need to include the names?

[axx]

Quote

just find it pointless and I'm sure I'm not the only one who does

That is not an excuse to not implement a mechanic, while you don't care about the current state of affairs there might be others who can benefit from the change.

A defensive attitude just shows that you feel that whatever you are doing is wrong to some degree.

"Its not against the rules" is usually the excuse of scum players.

[Quakkz]

reselling is as old as MMOs themselves, i dont really see listing player names would fix this. Im pretty sure it would be a minority who wouldnt buy items from resellers

[axx]

I'll revisit the argument that flipping or gaming the market requires some sort of skill. It does not.

All you need is cash and time, this puts new players at a disadvantage.

 

The GTL should not work as a stock market where money is generated out of thin air (scamming nobs out of their storyline money) but rather as a convenience trading hub where sellers and buyers get their fair share without middlemen. This is a challenging problem as I have explained.

Edited March 18, 2021 by axx

[BaliAds]

ngl i'd just pm sellers to negotiate better deals so I can see it getting annoying

[axx]

Just now, BaliAds said:

ngl i'd just pm sellers to negotiate better deals so I can see it getting annoying

Rather I can see this as an advantage, communication is a big thing of MMOs.

So if my listing is not selling as quickly as I expected and somebody has a good offer I can just opt to make a quick deal.

If you chose to not be contacted you can always go dnd mode.

 

[Quakkz]

1 minute ago, axx said:

 

The GTL should not work as a stock market where money is generated out of thin air (scamming nobs out of their storyline money) but rather as a convenience trading hub where sellers and buyers get their fair share without middlemen. This is a challenging problem as I have explained.

and thats where i would disagree. who says that GTL is only supposed to work as a convenient trading hub, thats your personal opinion. I can see your point, but i think people who want to use it to make some money are legit in what they doing as well

[Imperial]

16 minutes ago, axx said:

That is not an excuse to not implement a mechanic, while you don't care about the current state of affairs there might be others who can benefit from the change.

A defensive attitude just shows that you feel that whatever you are doing is wrong to some degree.

"Its not against the rules" is usually the excuse of scum players.

Lmao I hope this isn't an accusation because I'm the opposite of this, although I definitely agree that there's a section who take full advantage and rip people off.

 

I've emphasised that people stocking up on items are an issue - but can you give me some examples of items which you've noticed are an issue which need to be addressed? The teddy ear situation was already resolved with the latest update, which helped newer players significantly.

 

You mentioned the Pillar Of Hats, but this isn't very desirable and the price will just drop back down again anyway.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Imperial

[axx]

1 minute ago, Quakkz said:

and thats where i would disagree. who says that GTL is only supposed to work as a convenient trading hub, thats your personal opinion. I can see your point, but i think people who want to use it to make some money are legit in what they doing as well

What I propose does not eliminate the chance of profiting from the GTL, the no-middleman ideal is a personal vision which is unrealistic to MMOs. So let's not derail the topic that way.

 

Listing seller names only gives more information to the buyer, more informed consumers lead to healthier economies.

 

[Quakkz]

11 minutes ago, axx said:

What I propose does not eliminate the chance of profiting from the GTL, the no-middleman ideal is a personal vision which is unrealistic to MMOs. So let's not derail the topic that way.

 

Listing seller names only gives more information to the buyer, more informed consumers lead to healthier economies.

 

that would work if items wouldnt be limited - if somebody buys huge amounts of items which are limited buyers often have no other choice than paying a higher price, because other people who hold those items immediatly jump on the train and charge more from buyers. (and this only works because buyers are also willed to pay higher prices btw) As long as limited items exist people can easily manipulate prices, so i dont think adding names to GTL Listings would provide any benefit so id rather see devs putting their time in new gameplay features.

 

and btw if i would see this adding benefits i wouldnt mind implementing this since im neutral on thie topic itself - i buy larger stock of items but not to re-list on gtl but to keep them for a longer time and sell later, i consider this as something different.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Quakkz

[axx]

1 hour ago, Quakkz said:

that would work if items wouldnt be limited

So like limited cosmetics and other quasi-limited things like shinnies and rare vanities?

I just used the pillar hats as example.

 

Quote

id rather see devs putting their time in new gameplay features

This is an old moot point to bring up on the suggestion box.

At the end of the day devs prioritize whatever they want regardless of how important it is.

We don't know the gtl structure to assert that this would be either a major or minor change.

 

[EssDeeCee]

This would cause targeted harassment and will most likely never be implemented.