Optimal PvE Pickup Teddiursa, Munchlax, Meowth, and Pachirisu [with leveling strategies]

[DragoTamer]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:01 PM, fieryz said:

Been working on a Meowth and decided to document and run the calcs since at 88 it wasn't killing anything reliably. Thanks to this comment, figured out it's because of AoE. I chose to stick with Choice Specs from 88 to roughly 92, and then switched to Everstone for mindless grinding out the last 8 levels. Appreciate the guide
 

 

I appreciate that information. I thought I had adjusted everything to factor in the AoE damage reduction, but I guess I missed a part. I'll run the calcs and drop the modified calcs in within the next few days.

[DragoTamer]

Calculations for Meowth have been updated and are comprehensive.

Edited May 8, 2023 by DragoTamer

[DragoTamer]

Added a Honey Gatherer explanation for Teddiursa

[DragoTamer]

Added some notes in the IV explanation section clarifying why I said 6x31 was ideal as well as emphasizing that 3x31 was more practical for pokeyen-saving purposes. Also added a note in red in the summary breed at the beginning of the guide directing readers to the IV explanation section for further clarification

[DragoTamer]

Updated notes for Egg moves for Meowth and Munchlax

[DragoTamer]

Updated Meowth's moveset and some notes.

[DragoTamer]

Added visible HM moves that Teddiursa, Meowth, and Munchlax can learn

[Dronad]

Hi !

Thank you so much for this guide @DragoTamer

it’s so helpfull, i’ve been referring to it many times since I started PokeMMO ❤️

 

I’ve tested some of the main pickup options :

- Meowth (shiny of course) for daily usage

- Linoone in situational occasions

- Munchlax which i didnt like because he’s too slow, the others can do his job better imo and are way cheaper to breed

- Teddiursa, he is my favorite, especially for EVing, he’s so versatile + saves a whole team spot by being the only pickup user learning SS)

- Pachirisu for fun (he OHKO Pelippers as soon as he learns Discharge lvl 41, and Mantines a few lvls later iirc)

 

About Teddiursa’s nature, you say :

• The above explanations have explained why Mild nature over another nature such as Rash is optimal. I have also run damage calculations for every high-level horde listed in one of the EV guides below. Teddiursa will OHKO all other hordes commonly used for Horde farming. A horde that Teddiursa cannot OHKO is Parasect in Cerulean Cave. If you were to choose a special attack boosted nature that reduces speed such as Quiet, you will have to allocate more EVs towards speed to outspeed Rapidash and less towards attack. This makes it difficult to take out Wobbuffet/Lickitung Hordes in Cerulean Cave. You might be asking, “why would I battle Cerulean Cave hordes?” The answer is that my goal is to create the Optimal pickup Teddiursa that can take out all commonly battled hordes and additional high-leveled hordes. Once again, the high-leveled hordes I tested against are listed in the EV guides down below.

My Teddiursa is Quirky (no stat changes) and has no prob with Parasect hordes, using Hypervoice

with 31 IV / 252 EV special attack

both silk scarf and choice spec work

 

Really I think, as you highlighted it, that the only hordes dealing problem are Mantines

which are better to skip for Pelippers right next to them (very nice loot for pick up / EXP)

if one really wants to shunt Mantine he can use Pachirisu 😛

As a consequence i’d recommand, as secondary and very viable options, any neutral nature as well for Teddiursa. It gives more options that may reduce its breeding cost !

 

Thanks again for ur amazing work 🙏🏼

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Dronad

[DragoTamer]

56 minutes ago, Dronad said:

Hi !

Thank you so much for this guide @DragoTamer

it’s so helpfull, i’ve been referring to it many times since I started PokeMMO ❤️

 

I’ve tested some of the main pickup options :

- Meowth (shiny of course) for daily usage

- Linoone in situational occasions

- Munchlax which i didnt like because he’s too slow, the others can do his job better imo and are way cheaper to breed

- Teddiursa, he is my favorite, especially for EVing, he’s so versatile + saves a whole team spot by being the only pickup user learning SS)

- Pachirisu for fun (he OHKO Pelippers as soon as he learns Discharge lvl 41, and Mantines a few lvls later iirc)

 

About Teddiursa’s nature, you say :

• The above explanations have explained why Mild nature over another nature such as Rash is optimal. I have also run damage calculations for every high-level horde listed in one of the EV guides below. Teddiursa will OHKO all other hordes commonly used for Horde farming. A horde that Teddiursa cannot OHKO is Parasect in Cerulean Cave. If you were to choose a special attack boosted nature that reduces speed such as Quiet, you will have to allocate more EVs towards speed to outspeed Rapidash and less towards attack. This makes it difficult to take out Wobbuffet/Lickitung Hordes in Cerulean Cave. You might be asking, “why would I battle Cerulean Cave hordes?” The answer is that my goal is to create the Optimal pickup Teddiursa that can take out all commonly battled hordes and additional high-leveled hordes. Once again, the high-leveled hordes I tested against are listed in the EV guides down below.

My Teddiursa is Quirky (no stat changes) and has no prob with Parasect hordes, using Hypervoice

with 31 IV / 252 EV special attack

both silk scarf and choice spec work

 

Really I think, as you highlighted it, that the only hordes dealing problem are Mantines

which are better to skip for Pelippers right next to them (very nice loot for pick up / EXP)

if one really wants to shunt Mantine he can use Pachirisu 😛

As a consequence i’d recommand, as secondary and very viable options, any neutral nature as well for Teddiursa. It gives more options that may reduce its breeding cost !

 

Thanks again for ur amazing work 🙏🏼

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I'm glad you enjoy the guides I have made!

Unfortunately I would have to respectfully disagree with you on the neutral nature aspect. The Mild nature determinant was made through calculating Teddiursa against numerous hordes. The specific EV spread was also created based off of those hordes as well. I regularly say that optimizing how you spend yen through information allows you to get the most out of the yen you spend. While a 6x31 Mild natured Teddiursa is the best route to go, the route that provides essentially the same level of usefulness is a 3x31 natured Teddiursa. That is an inexpensive breed to make and I would argue that if using a 2x31 natured breeder was a concern yen wise for a player, it might, respectfully, not be the best time to breeding a pickup Teddiursa.

Teddiursa also requires a great deal of care when leveling to Level 100 without evolving and I have listed leveling strategies in the guide. By taking into account the time, effort, and yen spent, it would be better to nature it appropriately before leveling it. If a player is breeding Teddiursa themselves from scratch using the cheapest 1x31 breeders, it should take around 85K to make a 3x31 base and then around 45K to make the naturing mon. That sets the total at around 130K. The total could be rounded up to around 150K-170K if you hire someone to breed this for you. This is roughly half the amount of yen spent doing a standard gym run with the torkoal-cottonee strategy. As I mentioned earlier, if naturing it is a cost concern for the player, I would recommend the focus going to gym running regularly in order to build up yen to create the late-game PvE utility mons. An additional recommendation would be to use the 1 hour trainer rerun route in the guide index I created which is pinned in the guide tavern. It is very inexpensive to make the pokemon required for the trainer rerun route and can help jumpstart a player yen wise.

Until the 3x31 natured Teddiursa does not become a cost related concern, I would recommend using cheaper pokemon that don't need to be leveled to 100 like Pachirisu and jolteon for discharge, Krookodile or other related mons that could employ STAB EQ on hordes. Those are more affordable and easily obtainable options for players that have just finished regions and are in the transitional period to creating optimal utility mons for late PvE gameplay. I do want to say for the sake of it, that not all players play the game the same way so there will be slight variations in moveset and pokemon used for pickup, horde clearing, etc.

Edited July 8, 2023 by DragoTamer

[Dronad]

Hi again 🙂

Had to write this twice, dang. So i need to make it short (but spoil i didnt succeed)

 

Thank you for your detailed answer !

 

To be honest, besides thanking you for the guide and sharing my little experience, my main point was not to argue with Mild nature being optimal rather than anything else. It was just to highlight the sentence about Parasect hordes, which is wrong, because he always OHKO them even with neutral nature + silk scarf. When i read this i was afraid at first, since i wanted to shunt Parasect while pickuping 😱

 

I don’t say my Teddi is optimal with a neutral nature, i know its not the best. But it’s a very viable option since he can OHKO many hordes including the main used for XP (tentacruel and rapidash)

No problems in Cerulean cave, or even with Camerupts (sometimes if one survives Hypervoice i would catch it and often get nice IVs, but still have EQ and Bulldoze to deal with them).

The only hordes he can’t OHKO are Mantines and Dewgongs if i remember correctly, from my strictly personal experience of a few months playing with him obviously. I don’t know all hordes that exist in the game and clearly i trust you on all your calcs, i don’t argue with anything related to it (except Parasect 😉)

 

The money aspect was just a detail in my comment and, as you say, i agree, one must wisely spend money and perfect utility mons should not be the priority in early game.

 

However since you highlighted it, i’m happy to share a bit more of my point of view.

 

Personally i enjoy so much breeding and trying to build nice utility teams with pokemons i like, and find synergies between them. Played this way since i started PokeMMO in January.

 

And i may have burnt most of my money to breed utility mons, or kind of. I tried making profit by selling some. I just enjoyed the game this way and it was my motivation to grind back the money.

 

To show you how small my experience is, Teddiursa was my first ever 6x31 five months ago. I remember i spent all my money in this. I gambled the nature so i had to accept Quirky, and today i wouldnt change it (besides for an Alpha 😛 and i’ll manage to get Mild for this one !)

[DragoTamer]

1 hour ago, Dronad said:

Hi again 🙂

Had to write this twice, dang. So i need to make it short (but spoil i didnt succeed)

 

Thank you for your detailed answer !

 

To be honest, besides thanking you for the guide and sharing my little experience, my main point was not to argue with Mild nature being optimal rather than anything else. It was just to highlight the sentence about Parasect hordes, which is wrong, because he always OHKO them even with neutral nature + silk scarf. When i read this i was afraid at first, since i wanted to shunt Parasect while pickuping 😱

 

I don’t say my Teddi is optimal with a neutral nature, i know its not the best. But it’s a very viable option since he can OHKO many hordes including the main used for XP (tentacruel and rapidash)

No problems in Cerulean cave, or even with Camerupts (sometimes if one survives Hypervoice i would catch it and often get nice IVs, but still have EQ and Bulldoze to deal with them).

The only hordes he can’t OHKO are Mantines and Dewgongs if i remember correctly, from my strictly personal experience of a few months playing with him obviously. I don’t know all hordes that exist in the game and clearly i trust you on all your calcs, i don’t argue with anything related to it (except Parasect 😉)

 

The money aspect was just a detail in my comment and, as you say, i agree, one must wisely spend money and perfect utility mons should not be the priority in early game.

 

However since you highlighted it, i’m happy to share a bit more of my point of view.

 

Personally i enjoy so much breeding and trying to build nice utility teams with pokemons i like, and find synergies between them. Played this way since i started PokeMMO in January.

 

And i may have burnt most of my money to breed utility mons, or kind of. I tried making profit by selling some. I just enjoyed the game this way and it was my motivation to grind back the money.

 

To show you how small my experience is, Teddiursa was my first ever 6x31 five months ago. I remember i spent all my money in this. I gambled the nature so i had to accept Quirky, and today i wouldnt change it (besides for an Alpha 😛 and i’ll manage to get Mild for this one !)

Ah, my apologies! I thought you were trying to present Quirky as a nature on par with Mild. Congrats on making it your first 6x31! I just doubled checked the Parasect calculations and you are correct, Teddiursa can OHKO Parasect hordes. I may have been using EQ in my previous calculations. I will be sure to update my guide accordingly. Thank you for bringing that to my attention! I will be sure to credit you in the Teddiursa post for your contribution in ensuring the guide stays as relevant as possible.

 

 

[Dronad]

5 hours ago, DragoTamer said:

Ah, my apologies! I thought you were trying to present Quirky as a nature on par with Mild. Congrats on making it your first 6x31! I just doubled checked the Parasect calculations and you are correct, Teddiursa can OHKO Parasect hordes. I may have been using EQ in my previous calculations. I will be sure to update my guide accordingly. Thank you for bringing that to my attention! I will be sure to credit you in the Teddiursa post for your contribution in ensuring the guide stays as relevant as possible.

 

 

No worries my first comment wasn’t very clear.

I think you used EQ for your calculation, that makes sense.

It’s an honor to be credited in such a great guide 🙏🏼

Thank you again for all your work !

[DragoTamer]

Updated.

 

Future Look: Munchlax will be reviewed soon. I included in the builds notes, but Jolly Munchlax is needed to EQ golduck hordes at Mt. Silver. I may write two Munchlax builds. One for adamant and one for Jolly.  It was brought to my knowledge that the highest exp hordes in the game rn are the golduck hordes at Mt. Silver and that's a horde that Teddiursa nor Meowth can handle. Pachirisu is a fantastic low budget pokemon option which often doesn't even need 31s. I may create a Pachirisu build for those that don't want to build a Jolly Munchlax build.

[nobodyOrange]

Hi, I've been using a mild 3x Teddiursa (attack speed special attack) and am now breeding one under my OT. 

And I was wondering, what reason is there to use EQ / Rockslide? (I really guess I mean anything OTHER than Hyper Voice to be honest), because in the few months I've been using Teddiursa I don't think I've ever clicked anything other than Hyper Voice when I've been EV training. I was going to breed my Teddiursa to be Modest but I thought I'd look to see if there was specific reasoning that I've missed.

[DragoTamer]

26 minutes ago, nobodyOrange said:

Hi, I've been using a mild 3x Teddiursa (attack speed special attack) and am now breeding one under my OT. 

And I was wondering, what reason is there to use EQ / Rockslide? (I really guess I mean anything OTHER than Hyper Voice to be honest), because in the few months I've been using Teddiursa I don't think I've ever clicked anything other than Hyper Voice when I've been EV training. I was going to breed my Teddiursa to be Modest but I thought I'd look to see if there was specific reasoning that I've missed.

Hey there, great question!

So Teddiursa benefits from EQ for 2 main reasons:

1) There are hordes, PvE Battles, etc. that benefit from EQ. In my guide, I linked the EV guide that I used where I calced against every horde to find a good setup

2) Teddiursa has night slash and belly drum as egg moves. For belly drum, you can use it for fun meme builds in a battle between friends. Night Slash is an excellent solo move that I personally use if I happen to encounter a shiny and want to defeat other pokemon in a horde

 

As for why Mild is better than attack:

- Teddiursa doesn't often take significant damage so it's better to make use of the fact that it can use a physically offensive and specially offensive moveset. It's also about getting the most out of the pokeyen you spend

Edited September 14, 2023 by DragoTamer

[JDteufel]

Hi, are you planning to updates the commonly payday/thief mons of Meowth with the Johto new spots? I'm trying to decide if going Munchlax or Meowth and the plan was using them in that region, thanks.

Edited October 11, 2023 by JDteufel

[DragoTamer]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:28 AM, JDteufel said:

Hi, are you planning to updates the commonly payday/thief mons of Meowth with the Johto new spots? I'm trying to decide if going Munchlax or Meowth and the plan was using them in that region, thanks.

Probably, but I might rely on community contribution to fill that

[Dronad]

On 9/14/2023 at 4:24 PM, DragoTamer said:

Updated.

 

Future Look: Munchlax will be reviewed soon. I included in the builds notes, but Jolly Munchlax is needed to EQ golduck hordes at Mt. Silver. I may write two Munchlax builds. One for adamant and one for Jolly.  It was brought to my knowledge that the highest exp hordes in the game rn are the golduck hordes at Mt. Silver and that's a horde that Teddiursa nor Meowth can handle. Pachirisu is a fantastic low budget pokemon option which often doesn't even need 31s. I may create a Pachirisu build for those that don't want to build a Jolly Munchlax build.

I used to breed Pachirisus just for fun and sell, but i'm thinking to make my own now for those Golduck/Seaking hordes.
However, i'm still wondering if these hordes are really worth because of the path to get to them, needing repels. Without repels I feel like the loss of time due to random encounters may negate the extra 2K experience (compared to Poliwhirls).

[DragoTamer]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:31 PM, Dronad said:

I used to breed Pachirisus just for fun and sell, but i'm thinking to make my own now for those Golduck/Seaking hordes.
However, i'm still wondering if these hordes are really worth because of the path to get to them, needing repels. Without repels I feel like the loss of time due to random encounters may negate the extra 2K experience (compared to Poliwhirls).

Hello!

 

So i've just updated my guide. Teddiursa's EVs have been adjusted and it can handle both seaking and poliwhirl hordes. Munchlax doesn't need to be jolly and can remain as adamant nature to handle golduck hordes, Jolly Munchlax would also need scarf to outspeed. The issue is that you won't always OHKO Golduck hordes so it isn't as reliable. Pickup Pachirisu is a good option. As for if the distance is worth it, i'd say that's a judgement call because i'd probably go for the poliwhirl hordes in the water outside the PC after EV training. Donphan/Dodrio hordes are popular, but you'd need a mold breaker pokemon to handle the donphan and subsequently the dodrio.

[Dronad]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:30 AM, DragoTamer said:

Hello!

 

So i've just updated my guide. Teddiursa's EVs have been adjusted and it can handle both seaking and poliwhirl hordes. Munchlax doesn't need to be jolly and can remain as adamant nature to handle golduck hordes, Jolly Munchlax would also need scarf to outspeed. The issue is that you won't always OHKO Golduck hordes so it isn't as reliable. Pickup Pachirisu is a good option. As for if the distance is worth it, i'd say that's a judgement call because i'd probably go for the poliwhirl hordes in the water outside the PC after EV training. Donphan/Dodrio hordes are popular, but you'd need a mold breaker pokemon to handle the donphan and subsequently the dodrio.

I’m going to adjust my Teddiursa as you suggest, it makes much more sense ! Many thanks for the update.

 

Was just thinking about one benefit that Golduck/Seaking hordes may have. They give Special Attack and Attack EV’s so they could be nice for EV training Meowths, without having to bother changing spots (except for the last 4hp which don’t really matter), along with the highest EXP outcome of the game. And when EV’s are done just go back to Poliwhirls or Donphans/Dodrios 🙂

[DragoTamer]

18 hours ago, Dronad said:

I’m going to adjust my Teddiursa as you suggest, it makes much more sense ! Many thanks for the update.

 

Was just thinking about one benefit that Golduck/Seaking hordes may have. They give Special Attack and Attack EV’s so they could be nice for EV training Meowths, without having to bother changing spots (except for the last 4hp which don’t really matter), along with the highest EXP outcome of the game. And when EV’s are done just go back to Poliwhirls or Donphans/Dodrios 🙂

That's a good call with Meowth training! I'll add that in for the Meowth section and credit you

[DragoTamer]

Updated

[DragoTamer]

Updated

[DragoTamer]

Information for an optimal pickup pachirisu has been added below the information for munchlax. I will make it more organized later, but for now, the necessary info is there

[DragoTamer]

pachirisu information updated. I included information about two other moves to add thanks to @Minks and also included a writeup for EV hordes you can battle to continue benefiting from picking in order to ev train your pokemon.