[Implemented] Clauses for Duels and new challenge requests

[skazord]

So, following the discussion in [url=https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/22031-disable-bag-items-usage-in-pvp-technically/]this[/url] thread, I decided to make a new thread for more visibility, since I thought it deserved its own thread.

 

This suggestion is simple really, but can add a lot of complexity to duels. Basically, a system with clauses is in order, and the sooner the better. I do think the devs have this in mind and plan to implement this at some point, but I'd like to give a hand and surely more people can help too.

 

First of all, to add clauses, we'd need to change the current method of challenging someone. Instead of just clicking Duel and Singles/Doubles, let's have a menu Open when you click Duel instead.

 

In-depth description and pros/cons:

[spoiler]

In this menu, you'd be able to pick Singles/Doubles battle mode, the clauses you want to use (that would be later chosen by the staff with help of the community, I guess), and a confirmation to send the challenge.

 

This new system is better than the current one, in my opinion, even though it takes a bit more to start a duel.

 

Pros:

- Clauses, which, although not 100% needed, are helpful for random battles and remove the need for a referee in tournaments

- More control over duels, and a lot less chance to get Singles/Doubles wrong, which happens a lot of times

- No more misclicking and wrongly challenging people in crowded areas, because you need to confirm the challenge

- (Can't think of more)

 

Cons:

- Takes longer than the current system, although this may not be relevant

- Not a noob-friendly feature (although this could be fixed by adding an option to Settings, something like "Advanced Duels" or so, that would show/hide clauses upon activation, and would be default to Off)

- ?

[/spoiler]

 

TL;DR version with pictures and chart (Looking at you, Squirtle):

(click on it if it's too small)

 

 

Challenge setup image: http://i.imgur.com/TWbB8tj.jpg

Challenged player window: http://i.imgur.com/a9OFuRj.jpg

 

So, any ideas/suggestions to improve this? I can see this happening, to be honest.

 

Suggestions by other players so far:

[spoiler]

Orangeslash: Have an option to save the current setup so that it shows every time you challenge someone (maybe always save the last one you used instead of a button?)

[/spoiler]

 

[spoiler]I know the images look bad and stuff like that, I didn't intend this to be pretty, just to give a general idea. It would obviously be polished and even reorganized[/spoiler]

[Archinix]

+1

[Chestbrah]

+1 support especially needed for all those big tournaments where people make item clause mistake etc

 

but i feel like this is already planned

[skazord]

+1 support especially needed for all those big tournaments where people make item clause mistake etc

 

but i feel like this is already planned

 

I have the same feeling. Let's just hope that it might get some more attention to push it for the next update, maybe ;)

[Orangeslash]

I have the same feeling. Let's just hope that it might get some more attention to push it for the next update, maybe ;)

Well then. Update delayed until 2014.

 

 

But seriously, I think it's a great idea. Hope it gets implemented.

[Darkshade]

Perhaps in addition to this, Species Clause could be added to the list.

[skazord]

Perhaps in addition to this, Species Clause could be added to the list.

 

I was thinking about this, and it's pretty obvious that we can't just have 20 clauses in a list to pick from. I think that only the most frequent ones should be put up there, even if we have to tick the whole list most of the time, because that's why it's there in the first place.

 

That being said, I agree that Species should be in there too. But the best way to decide on this, would be to look at official tournament, and see which clauses are used all the time. Species, Items, Bag Items, 1HKO, Hax, Evasion, etc, those clauses are always used, and should definitely be in the list.

 

EDIT:

 

I just thought of something else. With this, we may not need referees in all the matches going on in tournaments. Meaning, that we could be running more than 1-2 matches at a time in tournaments, which would mean tournaments could pack a lot more people than 32-64, while taking the same or even less time than they currently do.

[Darkshade]

EDIT:

 

I just thought of something else. With this, we may not need referees in all the matches going on in tournaments. Meaning, that we could be running more than 1-2 matches at a time in tournaments, which would mean tournaments could pack a lot more people than 32-64, while taking the same or even less time than they currently do.

 

If that were to happen,to ensure no cheating, staff would need a set clause command, in which you could pair two players up, and set the clauses for them, that way nobody could arrange to cheat beforehand.

 

Then referee's would no longer be needed.

[Archinix]

This seems to just get better and better.

[MajikDan]

If that were to happen,to ensure no cheating, staff would need a set clause command, in which you could pair two players up, and set the clauses for them, that way nobody could arrange to cheat beforehand.

 

Then referee's would no longer be needed.

Even then we'd need a way to disable the AFK timeout button, to ensure that people don't just autowin while their opponent is debating moves. And possibly a way to re-enable it should someone genuinely go AFK.

 

Even with all this I feel like staff oversight is probably still important in tournaments. It's hard to be absolutely sure that no one will find a way to cheat the system.

[skazord]

If that were to happen,to ensure no cheating, staff would need a set clause command, in which you could pair two players up, and set the clauses for them, that way nobody could arrange to cheat beforehand.

 

Then referee's would no longer be needed.

 

Maybe have a command to enforce clauses in a certain area? All duels made within the area would have those clauses enforced? Seems like a way to get around that.

 

 

 

Even then we'd need a way to disable the AFK timeout button, to ensure that people don't just autowin while their opponent is debating moves. And possibly a way to re-enable it should someone genuinely go AFK.

 

Even with all this I feel like staff oversight is probably still important in tournaments. It's hard to be absolutely sure that no one will find a way to cheat the system.

 

Going with the same idea from above, have this command be a "Competition mode", in which AFK-kicking is also disabled. Though it should give staff a way to see for how long the opponent has been inactive, in cases where people just go AFK.

 

Tournaments with no referees still seem hard to pull though, but they could be closer with these implementations. A lot of discussion would be required though.

[Darkshade]

Even then we'd need a way to disable the AFK timeout button, to ensure that people don't just autowin while their opponent is debating moves.

 

I feel as though if somebody is taking that long to choose a move, they should be kicked anyway.

[Owyn]

+1

[skazord]

I feel as though if somebody is taking that long to choose a move, they should be kicked anyway.

 

Maybe just increase it if Competition clauses are enforced? I feel like it is around 2 minutes now (?), maybe increase it to like 5? Seems more than enough to me.

[Dannnno]

Maybe just increase it if Competition clauses are enforced? I feel like it is around 2 minutes now (?), maybe increase it to like 5? Seems more than enough to me

if we're giving a set clause type command to staff then there could be some kind of set afk or set time clause command. Set time clause could track how long the match has been going and after x time start prompting an afk kick or ping the staff member running it

[XelaKebert]

What if there was a way to choose how many clauses you want to have in effect prior to choosing the clauses? That way you could specify that you want to have 5 clauses in effect, and then the interface would present you with 5 dropdown menus so you can select your clauses.

[Demando]

this is really great, and for example lets say we chose bag item clause right? then either the bag would be disabled during battle OR... if one uses an item from the bag the duel would automatically end with him losing

[skazord]

this is really great, and for example lets say we chose bag item clause right? then either the bag would be disabled during battle OR... if one uses an item from the bag the duel would automatically end with him losing

 

Or just a notice saying that Bag Item Clause is active, returning him to the menu, that would be more appropriate, I think.

[Kyu]

This won't happen for normal duels. Different game modes and requirements were always planned for automated tournaments / matchmaking though.

[skazord]

This won't happen for normal duels. Different game modes and requirements were always planned for automated tournaments / matchmaking though.

 

That's a shame really, but I guess the reasoning behind that is to not force normal/casual players into competitive, and I have to agree on that.

 

Guess we just have to wait until those competitive modes get implemented then.

[Halvaard]

While this would be amazing, I think some of the common clauses would be difficult to enforce by the system... which is probably why we don't have that competitive mode yet. XD

[Sakura]

Maybe it's just me, but "reject" sounds really mean (･･; )
It sounds nicer to "decline" duel request rather than rejecting it
Just a really small change that eases my conscience a little (;＞人＜)

[CharlesK]

Maybe it's just me, but "reject" sounds really mean (･･; )
It sounds nicer to "decline" duel request rather than rejecting it
Just a really small change that eases my conscience a little (;＞人＜)

"Decline" does have a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

 

It's better than getting rejected all the time.

[justicewhale]

I know Kyu said that this wont happen for normal duels and if the reasoning behind it not being implemented  is too not force casual players into competitive dueling like Skazord said then why not do this:

 

When Duel is selected from the menu then it comes up with 2 options. Normal duel or customized duel.

Normal duel uses the current system. (Single battle and Double battle options and that's it)

Customized duel comes up with Skazords suggestion.

 

If it's not being implemented for some other reason then ignore this :P

[iSmashbro]

+1, but also add a "quick duel" option for casual players