[Implemented] Implement XD gale of darkness move tutors.

[XelaKebert]

Doesn't mean its a bad suggestion.

I wasn't saying that; in fact, I never once said that. What I was pointing out was that this suggestion is temporary at best. That doesn't mean it's bad, that just means that the problem it is intended to solve will be solved sometime in the future. With that in mind, there is really no reason to add something like this in the meantime since the use of these tutors will die off once proper bridges are in place for chain breeding. With the only notable exception being Snorlax not being able to learn selfdestruct since the only ways for that being possible were in a side game or through an event.

[Matoka]

For some its not a temporary solution, Crobat will never, -NEVER- learn sky attack without tutor, so its permanent solution. in a way.

[XelaKebert]

For some its not a temporary solution, Crobat will never, -NEVER- learn sky attack without tutor, so its permanent solution. in a way.

It's a mostly temporary solution since there are bridges missing. Maybe this could be revisited after that point.

[Matoka]

It's a mostly temporary solution since there are bridges missing. Maybe this could be revisited after that point.

 

ok i really don't mean to sound arrogant, But please listen to me VERY carefully, there is, absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to breed sky attack onto Crobat, Togetic, Aerodactyl Or breed Self destruct onto genderless pokemon,

Its not because there is no current bridge, Its because their Pre forms, the form that comes from the egg, Cannot learn it, For instance Crobat can learn it however zubat CANNOT therefor you will never be able to breed sky attack crobat because it will never be a egg move from the baby pokemon, And genderless pokemon simply cannot breed to get moves, Its a permanent solution, Because it is the -ONLY- solution 

[AngryPyro]

Xela, you're inadvertently saying this is a bad suggestion while trying to say it is a good suggestion. Either support it and stop fighting with us about breeding chains or don't support, and still stop bringing up breeding chains, we get the point, once chains are added the move tutor is redundant for most pokemon. Fact is, there are others that can still utilize it. 

[XelaKebert]

Xela, you're inadvertently saying this is a bad suggestion while trying to say it is a good suggestion. Either support it and stop fighting with us about breeding chains or don't support, and still stop bringing up breeding chains, we get the point, once chains are added the move tutor is redundant for most pokemon. Fact is, there are others that can still utilize it. 

Fact is that this can be revisited at that point, thus making it a temporary solution. Never once did I say this was a bad idea, nor was I implying that it was. I can not support something that is a good idea just because there are future plans to address a large portion of the issue. Does that make sense? I don't support this right now because of the fact that there are still more Pokemon that are planned for the future, along with new regions, and new moves. Once those are added, then this can be revisited to see what is still needed. That doesn't mean that this can't be discussed until then, but as it stands right now, this would largely serve as a temporary solution for Pokemon that can learn certain moves as egg moves and are just lacking the proper bridges.

 

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/28586-implentation-of-breeding-event-moves/

 

This was originally one of the ideas I put up for the breeding process, eventually I decided against the idea due to inconsistancies.

 

For example: Butterfree learns Air Cutter through the dream world.

 

This would be considered an event move.

 

Caterpie however, cannot, therefore it would be impossible to obtain.

 

Event moves may be available in other ways in the future, but not through breeding.

[Matoka]

Fact is that this can be revisited at that point, thus making it a temporary solution. Never once did I say this was a bad idea, nor was I implying that it was. I can not support something that is a good idea just because there are future plans to address a large portion of the issue. Does that make sense? I don't support this right now because of the fact that there are still more Pokemon that are planned for the future, along with new regions, and new moves. Once those are added, then this can be revisited to see what is still needed. That doesn't mean that this can't be discussed until then, but as it stands right now, this would largely serve as a temporary solution for Pokemon that can learn certain moves as egg moves and are just lacking the proper bridges.

 

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/28586-implentation-of-breeding-event-moves/

 

THESE AREN'T EVENT MOVES ._. 

It is not temporary fix, Some pokemon will never learn through breeding, ONLY move tutor, This is made for those pokemon, not those that do not have added egg chains. Do you understand now?

 

Please do not repeat yourself saying its a temporary solution when it isn't, You don't seem to understand the true purpose of this thread even though i have put it in plain english many times, Can you, Before you post one more comment -carefully- read the entire thread again before posting anymore comments, I believe you misunderstood the purpose of this thread

[XelaKebert]

THESE AREN'T EVENT MOVES ._. 

It is not temporary fix, Some pokemon will never learn through breeding, ONLY move tutor, This is made for those pokemon, not those that do not have added egg chains. Do you understand now?

 

Please do not repeat yourself saying its a temporary solution when it isn't, You don't seem to understand the true purpose of this thread even though i have put it in plain english many times, Can you, Before you post one more comment -carefully- read the entire thread again before posting anymore comments, I believe you misunderstood the purpose of this thread

 

I read the thread carefully. You are misunderstanding exactly what I am saying. What you are trying to do is strong arm me into throwing support behind something that has already been stated will be addressed in the future. Since some Pokemon could only learn moves in side games or through the Pokewalker, those moves are considered event moves. A move could be considered an event move if it cannot be learned by the Pokemon without the use of the Dream World, Pokewalker, side games like XD: Gale of Darkness, or special distributions. Now do you see what I'm saying?

[Matoka]

I read the thread carefully. You are misunderstanding exactly what I am saying. What you are trying to do is strong arm me into throwing support behind something that has already been stated will be addressed in the future. Since some Pokemon could only learn moves in side games or through the Pokewalker, those moves are considered event moves. A move could be considered an event move if it cannot be learned by the Pokemon without the use of the Dream World, Pokewalker, side games like XD: Gale of Darkness, or special distributions. Now do you see what I'm saying?

 

Thats like saying Emerald move tutors are "Event moves". These are not event moves. XD gale of darkness was not a side game. It is actually a main game. You would know this since it was added to allow you to have access to a lot of johto pokemon in the handhelds since Sevii islands didn't exist back then. It is not a side game. 

 

I don't mind that you don't support it, And i wouldn't bother trying to "Strong arm you into throwing support behind it" it was never said anywhere they are going to add move tutors for XD gale of darkness, thats why this suggestion was made. Also there is a special reason why this is NOT an event move.

 

All "Event moves" were distributed on the actual pokemon. For instance they may release a "Wish ralts" that is an event move on Ralts. They don't create Move tutors for event moves. Please do not act like you know all about this when a lot of the things you say are incorrect.

 

This is a main game's move tutor that isn't compatible with the format of Pokemmo because it was created on a different engine so to help fill in the gap i suggest they simply add an NPC that teaches the move like in XD Gale of darkness. If you really think its worth over complicating everything and implementing every single pokemon on the list those who could learn these moves in some event method, equally over 50 events, Then go make your own thread suggesting how to do this. Your just overcomplicating everything and if they did it the way you mentioned it would be a waste of time and resources that they could be using on more key gameplay features. This way is simple and it doesn't cause any issues.

 

Before you make another post on this thread please get your facts straight because so far you were wrong about:

Saying these are event moves

Saying darkshade said they won't add them (Confusing it with event move breeding)

Calling XD: Gale of darkness a side game

Saying instead of adding 1 NPC move tutor its better to add events for every single pokemon

[AngryPyro]

I think its just really odd how you don't want to flat out call it a bad suggestion, but you're fighting it like it is.

[XelaKebert]

Before you make another post on this thread please get your facts straight because so far you were wrong about:

Saying these are event moves

Saying darkshade said they won't add them (Confusing it with event move breeding)

Calling XD: Gale of darkness a side game

Saying instead of adding 1 NPC move tutor its better to add events for every single pokemon

 

1) If you have to use resources outside of the hand held game itself to obtain the move, it could be classified as an event move.

2) Maybe you should revisit that post. What Darkshade said was that access to moves that required use of external resources like the Dream World was put forth initially but left out due to inconsistencies and that such moves may be available in the future.

3) If you want to call it a main game, go ahead, to me a side game is anything outside the hand held version. (Reason: The hand held versions had the anime based around their respective regions)

4) Now where did I say anything remotely close to this? It looks more like you're trying to put words in my mouth here. My primary point to everything I have said is that I believe that this may have been put forth a bit early and that it is largely temporary if it was. How does that even remotely resemble me saying that they should add an event for every Pokemon?

 

 

I think its just really odd how you don't want to flat out call it a bad suggestion, but you're fighting it like it is.

Is that not how discussion works or am I missing something here? Last time I checked, disagreeing with someone doesn't necessarily mean you think what they are saying is bad, it simply means that you disagree. I disagree with adding these in before breeding chains are completed and presented my reasons why. How does that imply that I think this is a bad suggestion? I personally think that there may be some merit to this, but it may have been put forth a bit early.

[Matoka]

1) If you have to use resources outside of the hand held game itself to obtain the move, it could be classified as an event move.

2) Maybe you should revisit that post. What Darkshade said was that access to moves that required use of external resources like the Dream World was put forth initially but left out due to inconsistencies and that such moves may be available in the future.

3) If you want to call it a main game, go ahead, to me a side game is anything outside the hand held version. (Reason: The hand held versions had the anime based around their respective regions)

4) Now where did I say anything remotely close to this? It looks more like you're trying to put words in my mouth here. My primary point to everything I have said is that I believe that this may have been put forth a bit early and that it is largely temporary if it was. How does that even remotely resemble me saying that they should add an event for every Pokemon?

 

 

Is that not how discussion works or am I missing something here? Last time I checked, disagreeing with someone doesn't necessarily mean you think what they are saying is bad, it simply means that you disagree. I disagree with adding these in before breeding chains are completed and presented my reasons why. How does that imply that I think this is a bad suggestion? I personally think that there may be some merit to this, but it may have been put forth a bit early.

 

I will re-say why you are wrong in regards to event pokemon.

 

Event pokemon are pokemon given out WITH the event move. XD gale of darkness is quite clearly a pretty major game compared to a lot of games and i think has earned itself Main-Game status. Just because a game isn't on a portable device doesn't mean it isn't a main game. It is not a temporary since it is the -only- way to obtain it on some pokemon. Also i simply read what you said and pointed out what it would mean if what you suggested happened. Also if you disagree with something then in your opinion it is a "bad" idea. There is no exceptions. If i think that people shouldn't have to walk on their hands as a law then i think it is a "bad idea" please stop repeating yourself on this thread. nothing your saying is contributing to the suggestion only repeating yourself and saying things that are for the most part incorrect. The only reason you have to say that XD isn't a main game is because it doesn't involve anyone from the anime and it isn't Canon.

 

Unless you are making feedback that adds to this suggestion instead of repeating yourself over and over, please do not post on this thread. Unless you actually have something to positively add to the suggestion

[XelaKebert]

I will re-say why you are wrong in regards to event pokemon.

 

Event pokemon are pokemon given out WITH the event move. XD gale of darkness is quite clearly a pretty major game compared to a lot of games and i think has earned itself Main-Game status. Just because a game isn't on a portable device doesn't mean it isn't a main game. It is not a temporary since it is the -only- way to obtain it on some pokemon. Also i simply read what you said and pointed out what it would mean if what you suggested happened. Also if you disagree with something then in your opinion it is a "bad" idea. There is no exceptions. If i think that people shouldn't have to walk on their hands as a law then i think it is a "bad idea" please stop repeating yourself on this thread. nothing your saying is contributing to the suggestion only repeating yourself and saying things that are for the most part incorrect. The only reason you have to say that XD isn't a main game is because it doesn't involve anyone from the anime and it isn't Canon.

 

Unless you are making feedback that adds to this suggestion instead of repeating yourself over and over, please do not post on this thread. Unless you actually have something to positively add to the suggestion

 

First off, sorry, but telling me to either be positive on this thread while looking at what has already been stated is like telling me that I either agree or agree. If someone cannot disagree with you then this thread should be locked and trashed. This is a public suggestion box so that players may discuss the ideas set forth by other players. You have to be able to take the good and the bad with it, if you can't then you shouldn't be putting forth a suggestion.

 

Second, disagreeing is just simply that. It does not imply good or bad, stop saying it does. There are more semantics to everyday conversation that go into play here than should be discussed in this thread. So we're not going to delve deeper into that pool and further discussion on that will not take place in here. If you can't deal with disagreement see my first point.

 

Third, EVERYTHING in any game is considered an event. You have events for obtaining Pokemon within the game, there are events for capturing Pokemon, and there events in which certain Pokemon can learn moves (via tutor, TM, breeding, or leveling up). These just go unnoticed because they happen normally within the context of the game you are playing. So while a Pokemon learning a move within FireRed may not be a special event, it is still an event within the game.

 

Fourth, the events you speak of in which Pokemon were distributed with an "event move" are special distribution events and require that you get on Nintendo Wi-Fi, visit a game store, or even attend a special convention receive it.

 

Finally, using the link system to transfer your Pokemon to XD: Gale of Darkness to learn a move and transfer it back makes it an event move. It requires something outside of the normal gameplay to obtain. Just because it does not fit into what you consider an "event" that does not negate the fact that, for all intents and purposes in this game, it is still an event move. Implementing additional tutors requires special coding to add those events to the game.

 

 

As I said before, I personally think that your idea has merit, but it might have been forth a bit early. What I mean by that is that you want the collective total of all tutor moves from XD: Gale of Darkness added to the game, but you said yourself that some Pokemon could learn some of those moves through normal breeding but lack the proper bridges. While I understand where you are coming from with some Pokemon not being able to gain those moves as Egg Moves due to being genderless, or lack any bridge to their group (as is the case with Snorlax), the fact remains that this may be discussed among the staff currently, I don't know and you don't either. To put forth this idea now, before the devs have a chance to complete breeding chains or even look into solving the inconsistencies with moves learned outside of the normal FireRed ROM (like Butterfree having Air Cutter in the Dream World). I'm not entirely disagreeing with the suggestion, I'm disagreeing with the timing, there is a stark difference. With that I recuse myself from this discussion.

[Matoka]

First off, sorry, but telling me to either be positive on this thread while looking at what has already been stated is like telling me that I either agree or agree. If someone cannot disagree with you then this thread should be locked and trashed. This is a public suggestion box so that players may discuss the ideas set forth by other players. You have to be able to take the good and the bad with it, if you can't then you shouldn't be putting forth a suggestion.

 

 

Yes, That is why i want you to actually bring you long list of comments to a close and actually say something along the lines of "I disagree." "I agree." "I think if you just changed it so... it would work better" instead of continuing these long comments that don't actually contribute in any way other than repeating yourself.

 

And when i said "Positively add to this suggestion" i don't mean say its the best thing ever suggested in the history of the forums. I simply don't say things that don't contribute in any sense. Saying why you don't like it and what you'd change would be better than simply repeating yourself.

 

Edit: Putting random words in bold is slightly irritating to read i'd  appreciate if you don't do it again. 

[AlbinoDrow]

(Skitty and Wailord are in the Field egg group. Thats how we get Skitty on Wailord action fufufu)

 

Anyways I skipped through most of this argument going on but I cant tell who is supporting it and who is not anymore :/

 

These dont have to be temporary anyways. Maybe when the trainer tower is brought in we'll have a Battle Point system and move tutor moves can be bought? It does not take away from breeding as much as you'd think. It actually allows for larger movepools for bred Pokemon.

For instance, I was looking up fun moves for a special sweeper charizard. You can breed Crunch and Outrage onto it through Rhyhorn, but not Thunderpunch in the same movepool. Rhydon can learn thunderpunch through an emerald move tutor, but rhyhorn cannot meaning Charizard (bred from smeargle>rhyhorn>charmander) could get Outrage, Crunch, and Thunderpunch all in one moveset IF we can get move tutors. All it would be doing is adding more moves to the available movepool, and adding new sets available for use in competitive play. You would still have to earn the moves, like how battle points were able to be spent in emerald, so I still see it as worthwhile.

 

Not to mention you wouldnt have to re-breed something when a new move becomes available through a bridge. For how long it already takes to breed a pokemon with the right nature and good IVs I see this as a very welcome addition. Just imagine how many eevees will be re-bred when heal bell is released. Or for that matter heal bell+seismic toss Chanseys that will be bred and people training to replace their current ones. I'm sure there are more Pokemon people would be sure to upgrade into a superior set, which honestly feels like punishment.

 

Move Tutors for trainer tower battle points. Heck they could even put a timer on the trainer tower similar to the E4 so you cant farm it all day if you are worried about that sort of thing.

[zmiller307]

Nightmare and Sky Attack are garbage moves, no pokemon should use them. The only pokemon that should run a self-destruct set on that list is Cloyster.

[Quakkz]

Nightmare and Sky Attack are garbage moves, no pokemon should use them. The only pokemon that should run a self-destruct set on that list is Cloyster.

i already saw hypnos in competitive play that would laugh about ur statement

[zmiller307]

in addition,

>Nightmare is not a common sight in competitive matches for several reasons. Firstly, it has poor distribution with no real abusers, and secondly, it only works if the foe is asleep, with the effect wearing off if the opponent switches out. Sleep is such a powerful status condition that instead of reserving an entire moveslot for Nightmare you're better off using the free turns that the sleep provides trying to set up a sweep or outright attacking.

http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/nightmare

 

you're better off using the turn after sleep to set screens/wish/atk, as most people in a competitive environment will switch out once they're asleep to preserve sleep clause, especially considering the accuracy of hypnomiss, neither it or Nightmare are featured on a single R/S smogon set for Hypno. please don't tell me you think nightmare/hypnosis hypno is a viable mon in comp

[Matoka]

in addition,

>Nightmare is not a common sight in competitive matches for several reasons. Firstly, it has poor distribution with no real abusers, and secondly, it only works if the foe is asleep, with the effect wearing off if the opponent switches out. Sleep is such a powerful status condition that instead of reserving an entire moveslot for Nightmare you're better off using the free turns that the sleep provides trying to set up a sweep or outright attacking.

http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/nightmare

 

you're better off using the turn after sleep to set screens/wish/atk, as most people in a competitive environment will switch out once they're asleep to preserve sleep clause, especially considering the accuracy of hypnomiss, neither it or Nightmare are featured on a single R/S smogon set for Hypno. please don't tell me you think nightmare/hypnosis hypno is a viable mon in comp

 

Weither a move is good or not is only opinion. I'm pretty sure there are many people who think splash is the best move in existence and needs to be nerfed (Thats why they haven't implemented it's effect yet!)

 

I personally have fond memories of sky attack. Also just because they aren't the absolute best moves doesn't mean there should be no-way to get them on most pokemon. That decision isn't up to you or me, its up to the devs.

[Matoka]

(Skitty and Wailord are in the Field egg group. Thats how we get Skitty on Wailord action fufufu)

 

Anyways I skipped through most of this argument going on but I cant tell who is supporting it and who is not anymore :/

 

These dont have to be temporary anyways. Maybe when the trainer tower is brought in we'll have a Battle Point system and move tutor moves can be bought? It does not take away from breeding as much as you'd think. It actually allows for larger movepools for bred Pokemon.

For instance, I was looking up fun moves for a special sweeper charizard. You can breed Crunch and Outrage onto it through Rhyhorn, but not Thunderpunch in the same movepool. Rhydon can learn thunderpunch through an emerald move tutor, but rhyhorn cannot meaning Charizard (bred from smeargle>rhyhorn>charmander) could get Outrage, Crunch, and Thunderpunch all in one moveset IF we can get move tutors. All it would be doing is adding more moves to the available movepool, and adding new sets available for use in competitive play. You would still have to earn the moves, like how battle points were able to be spent in emerald, so I still see it as worthwhile.

 

Not to mention you wouldnt have to re-breed something when a new move becomes available through a bridge. For how long it already takes to breed a pokemon with the right nature and good IVs I see this as a very welcome addition. Just imagine how many eevees will be re-bred when heal bell is released. Or for that matter heal bell+seismic toss Chanseys that will be bred and people training to replace their current ones. I'm sure there are more Pokemon people would be sure to upgrade into a superior set, which honestly feels like punishment.

 

Move Tutors for trainer tower battle points. Heck they could even put a timer on the trainer tower similar to the E4 so you cant farm it all day if you are worried about that sort of thing.

 

Sry for double post.

 

Yea thats a good idea i mean it would ensure we could use it more than once which would be nice since this is made for pokemon ho cannot obtain the move from breeding.

[Fishtickles]

An option that can be explored for some of these pokemon is making some of the moves only obtainable through Gale of Darkness relearn able moves via Move re-learner on island 2. For an example, making Sky Attack a move that can be relearned via the Move Re-learner NPC once a Zubat is fully evolved as a Crobat. Similarly for Self-destruct Snorlax and pokemon lacking a move tutor for moves only learn-able once a pokemon has obtained it's final evolution stage (Not Accessable Via Breeding but Accessable Via Tutor). 

[Rache]

The only pokemon that should run a self-destruct set on that list is Cloyster.

I beg to differ. Selfdestruct not only an incredibly powerful move, but Snorlax also gets STAB on it. It's considered viable enough to warrant a place on a Smogon moveset alongside counter. It's also a surprising move if your opponent isn't ready for it.

[Eggplant]

Pokemon XD tutor moves are now included among the shard tutors.