[OU Discussion] Heracross

[DoubleJ]

Don'tbe that ignorant. Skarmory if a full Heracross counter. An unboosted Low Kick does too little damage to Skarm and nobody in their right minds are going to use Adamant without Salac. If it's CB you can see that from the damage and be more mindful, although Skarmoru can switch in on 3/4 attacks CB Hera carries. If it's Reversal than Skarmory can freely spike on it because Megahorn does nothing to it and by setting up spikes and whirlwinding you DO counter Reversal sets. If it SDs on the switch itmeans that Skarm took no damage and can Drill Peck for STAB x4 next turn.

The only time Hera is problematic for a Skarmory is when it SDs on the switch and you don't know if it is EndureSalac so you're almost forced to Whirlwind unless you have an Arc in the back.

 

But Think, once it recognizes skarm being it's only defensive stopper, it SD's every time. I'm not sold on this thing being a counter, but I'm also not sold on arguing over a stupid and moot point. 

 

Heracross is the boss, but it's not Magneto in a steel mill either (cue Skarmory being flung into a wall).  

[Robofiend]

+2 252+ Atk Heracross Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 84-99 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

Part of the problem is that if you Whirlwind, take the +2 Kick and then have to run from something else that can hit you hard (Gengar, Metagross, even Gyarados, who's not that used but.. ya know) then next time you switch in on Hera you're either taking two of these:

 

252+ Atk Heracross Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 42-51 (24.4 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

(which admittedly won't kill, but if Skarm somehow takes more entry damage it's going to be hurting)

 

If you DP you're facing a possible Endrev Hera at +2, which like Think said, makes you a sitting duck for

+2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 207-244 (120.3 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

I guess this all just illustrates why item scouting on Heracross is key

[ThinkNice]

+2 252+ Atk Heracross Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 84-99 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
 
Part of the problem is that if you Whirlwind, take the +2 Kick and then have to run from something else that can hit you hard (Gengar, Metagross, even Gyarados, who's not that used but.. ya know) then next time you switch in on Hera you're either taking two of these:
 
252+ Atk Heracross Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 42-51 (24.4 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(which admittedly won't kill, but if Skarm somehow takes more entry damage it's going to be hurting)
 
If you DP you're facing a possible Endrev Hera at +2, which like Think said, makes you a sitting duck for
+2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 207-244 (120.3 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
I guess this all just illustrates why item scouting on Heracross is key

i mean.. I just said this situation was the only one that would give skarm some trouble

[Robofiend]

i mean.. I just said this situation was the only one that would give skarm some trouble

 

needed more calcs

[DoubleJ]

needed more calcs

Scroll back and find my calcs lol

[SpartacusGD]

Well unless you run some kind of blissey. Ludicolo team. Skarm will suffice as a check, not like heracross have that many resistances to switch-in. Inb4 double switch, well thats risky and should be rewarded. All my opinion

[DrCraig]

Well unless you run some kind of blissey. Ludicolo team. Skarm will suffice as a check, not like heracross have that many resistances to switch-in. Inb4 double switch, well thats risky and should be rewarded. All my opinion

A counter switches in on heracross, not vice versa.

[SpartacusGD]

Toinks. I pointed out your skarm can do its job to check heracross unless you run those, so in a person with brain's pov they'll clearly see im talking about skarmory as the answer to heracross and if your team doesnt have a fighting resistant / immune poke thats kinda your problem in team building dont blame it on the bug

[Noad]

I will be closing this due to the implementation of our new policies: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/54048-pokemmo-tier-council-and-official-tier-policies/

 

If you feel that this Pokemon needs it's own thread for a more focused discussion, please post your reasoning here: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/54047-ou-tier-discussion-request-thread/

 

All general OU meta discussion will now take part in the OU viability thread: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/50981-ou-viability-thread/