[Denied]Add a Durability Counter to Breed Pokemon.

[codylramey]

I am typing this suggestion already knowing that most of the community will probably hate the idea. But I am going to make my case for it anyway.

 

I believe that all breed pokemons should have a durability counter that goes down with every PvP (and maybe battle frontier and trainer tower) battle you get in with said pokemon. I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out, I think that this idea could fix a lot of the problems we see in pokemmo now.

 

First of all the most obvious reason for this suggestion is the economy. The point of the new breeding system was to stop comp inflation, but it only slowed it down. Comps are still being inflated and losing value every day. Imo this is really the ONLY true way to stop that from happening and to actually reverse the damage that was done in that past. It also would keep a consistent demand for all commonly used pokes, make a place for breeders as a profession, and stabilize comp prices in the market.

 

Second, if they added this system they could make breeding a lot cheaper w/o worrying about the impact it would have on the economy. Right now the only thing that is really stopping pokemon from being inflated at a massive rate is the price of breeding. But while the price of breeding as a positive impact on the number of pokemon in the market it has a negitive impact on pretty much everything else. It has slown down the meta to a point where the devs have decided to just give us hidden power in order to speed it along. If breeding could be cheaper the meta could adapt and evolve at a much faster rate. It also doesnt have a very positive effect on the market. While it helps control the numbers (it does not keep the numbers from inflating tho) it also raises the cost of making pokes w/o raising its market value all that much thus making it impossible to sell breed pokemon for a profit.

 

Third, this could make a new market for great wild catches to be used as comps. Since wild catches would have no durability points comp wild catches would skyrocket in price when compared to breed ones. With sync as an ability i believe that this could end up being a new market that sits happily in between breed comps and shiny trading.

 

Fourth, this could add a little bit of new content to the game. Being able to reinforce your pokemon to last longer the way you would a piece of armor in another mmo could add a little bit of end game content. You could also add in a way to turn your pokemon into a trophy for your base b4 its durability runs out in order to preserve a pokemon that may have won you your first tourny, or you just have a special connection to (some of you have that with these pixels, im not judging). When you click on the trophy it would bring up all of its stats and such. While these arent as big as the other three reasons i still thought it would be a cool concept to add in with durability on pokes.

Edited September 1, 2015 by XelaKebert
Removed link to rules

[Rendiz]

So this means that battling friends for fun or practice / battling people in verm is effectively costing you money in the form of losing durability. Or are you suggesting it should only work in tournaments which makes it really clunky to implement. Although saying that, I think the idea is kinda cool and maybe has potential. It won't ever be implemented though as too many people would be against it.

[codylramey]

So this means that battling friends for fun or practice / battling people in verm is effectively costing you money in the form of losing durability. Or are you suggesting it should only work in tournaments which makes it really clunky to implement. Although saying that, I think the idea is kinda cool and maybe has potential. It won't ever be implemented though as too many people would be against it.

Idk if any PvP battle would count against it. Maybe only tourny mode battles? But in the future when we have automated tournies the idea of only lowering durability on pokes during tournies and not verm wouldnt be so clunky. But i think all pvp battles should count against it, maybe some more than others tho.

Edited August 26, 2015 by codylramey

[Gunthug]

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. I just don't think this game is at a point where it can afford to do this. It's one thing for a game to start difficult, and then get easier - but this game has taken the opposite path. It started very easy (clone breeding), then got harder (new breeding) which has driven a lot of players away. To add this suggestion would only be an added layer of challenge, and it would flat out drive players away. Like, a lot of them. Not a great idea when a huge competitor just sprung up.

 

Good intentions, and well written suggestion. I know you've been cooking this up for a long time. But in my personal opinion, this won't/can't happen.

[suigin]

As a somewhat new player I'd despise to see this being implemented. This would absolutely drain the willpower to breed and play from a lot of people and only the richest and best money makers with a lot of free time would be able to play competitively.

[codylramey]

As a somewhat new player I'd despise to see this being implemented. This would absolutely drain the willpower to breed and play from a lot of people and only the richest and best money makers with a lot of free time would be able to play competitively.

Ideally if this was implemented the price of breeding would be much lower. So it would essentially all but eliminate what is now breeding s biggest grind, the money grind. So i am going to disagree with the the sentiment that only those with lots of money and free time would be able to breed. As a matter of the fact this suggestion should have the opposite effect. It would also help close the competitive gap that is seen with the quality between new players and old players (not that having a gap is necessarily a bad thing). Also lets not forget that eventually we will be getting a global trade system. With cheaper breeding means cheaper comps on the market and the global trade system should allow for instant access to those cheap comps should you need it.

[Gunthug]

here's another con that I just thought of - wouldn't this discourage participation in unofficials/sponts?

[fredrichnietze]

i think no matter how this was implemented, a lot of people would read "your pokemon will now die after X amount of battles" and quit the game/never come back. i know i would.

[codylramey]

here's another con that I just thought of - wouldn't this discourage participation in unofficials/sponts?

It prolly would, but more things can be implemented to mend these kids of things. For example if they added a scaling/clause options for normal mode (which i think it should have anyway) and have normal mode not add to your durability counter then you could freely battle ur friends and do unofficials all you want. 

 

 

i think no matter how this was implemented, a lot of people would read "your pokemon will now die after X amount of battles" and quit the game/never come back. i know i would.

Why is that fred? Being a veteran and seeing the game in its various stages, watching the economy be dragged through the dirt, watching the game get more and more grind to try n fix the economy and the lack of end game, i would really like to know why you feel this way about this idea?

[fredrichnietze]

Why is that fred? Being a veteran and seeing the game in its various stages, watching the economy be dragged through the dirt, watching the game get more and more grind to try n fix the economy and the lack of end game, i would really like to know why you feel this way about this idea?

 

just making a comp team right now takes a level of autism i just wont do anymore. if all the stuff i made over the last 3 years started to disappear, i would never come back because that would mean spending all mine time here every day just to not loose everything. even if they made it easier it's still a large amount of work just to not loose everything and i know a lot of people would not even bother to read the whole change log after seeing "your pokemon will die after X amount of time".

[codylramey]

just making a comp team right now takes a level of autism i just wont do anymore. if all the stuff i made over the last 3 years started to disappear, i would never come back because that would mean spending all mine time here every day just to not loose everything. even if they made it easier it's still a large amount of work just to not loose everything and i know a lot of people would not even bother to read the whole change log after seeing "your pokemon will die after X amount of time".

I think youre underestimating how easy getting comps could be if we couldnt keep them forever. The grind could be lowered enough to compensate for the fact that they are not permanent. Sure some people wont think that that would be enough but you have to think about the long term health of the game. Players are tired of the long grind it takes to make a comp, but the grind is necessary for balancing purposes. My suggestion takes that long grind and and spreads it out into more little grinds. You get an instant smaller reward for a lot less work.

 

In all honesty fred your only argument against it is you think it would be too much work. I think its quit the opposite. While yes we will constantly have to maintain our teams (endgame) it will be easier to both create  and evolve your team with this system (this means that newbs get into the comp scene easier and the meta evolves faster). Yours, mine, and everyone elses comps that we worked hard for over the years isnt relevant to the conversation bc technically we are all beta (alpha?) testers for this game. You have to look at the suggestion from a game balancing perspective and not let the fact that we all went through the tedious grind in the past to get to where we are now cloud your judgement.

[fredrichnietze]

I think youre underestimating how easy getting comps could be if we couldnt keep them forever. The grind could be lowered enough to compensate for the fact that they are not permanent. Sure some people wont think that that would be enough but you have to think about the long term health of the game. Players are tired of the long grind it takes to make a comp, but the grind is necessary for balancing purposes. My suggestion takes that long grind and and spreads it out into more little grinds. You get an instant smaller reward for a lot less work.

 

In all honesty fred your only argument against it is you think it would be too much work. I think its quit the opposite. While yes we will constantly have to maintain our teams (endgame) it will be easier to both create  and evolve your team with this system (this means that newbs get into the comp scene easier and the meta evolves faster). Yours, mine, and everyone elses comps that we worked hard for over the years isnt relevant to the conversation bc technically we are all beta (alpha?) testers for this game. You have to look at the suggestion from a game balancing perspective and not let the fact that we all went through the tedious grind in the past to get to where we are now cloud your judgement.

i think your over estimating how easy staff would make it to make comps. they would not touch ev training, cheapen tm's/tutors, maaaaybe make breeding free or cheaper, make bp cheaper/give otu higher pay outs and thats it. still 2-4 hours of ev training and a hour of leveling, not counting breeding/catching/moves/money gathering/shard gathering/bp. 

 

realistically 1-3 or more days of work per comp still. if you expect the staff to change more then you are not living in reality here. 

 

even if you were to change game mechanics in every way, you would not change the way staff and players think. staff is still going to be pretty pro grind and do more then the minimium nessicary level's of grind, and players are going to look at this the way they looked at the last breeding changes. sure it's easier to get 6x31's, but you loose a lot of breeders and a whole lot of money. a lot of people saw "breeding now kills 2xparents" and quit. all pokemon eventually die'ing and being removed from the game would have the same effect. people wont stop and spend hours looking at the change logs and calculating the time it takes to make comps now vs life span vs old mechanics. they will just quit.

at the end of the day you are trying to create a endless grind of creating comps as the end game content. not a good idea.

[codylramey]

Im trying to create more tolerable grind that doesnt become so easy that it doesnt destroy the economy. The have already expressed interest in lowering the grind for comps, they have shown it with the last update. But they can only do but so much b4 the economy is at jeopardy. So yes i think that the devs would be willing to talk about lowering the grind in all of those aspects that you mentioned if a system like this was in place. Ofc im not a dev so i could be wrong.

 

You say that i want to create an endgame of grind, what is the endgame now? Its nothing but grind. And once you have all of the comps you need you have nothing to do but log on and duel once in a while. MAYBE grind for something new once in a while. I fail to see where this is any healthier than my idea. At least with my idea hopefully we could end up with a better economy that could make the game more fun to play. Remember we should be getting a global trading hub sometime or another so the grind for comps could become as simple as going to the trading hub and picking out the comp you want if they were easier and cheaper to obtain.

 

Yes i know people would quit after seeing the change log. But this is still a much more balanced and healthier way of running the game. I cant help if people who signed up for a beta test game cant see that.

Edited September 2, 2015 by codylramey

[patienceyeah]

What are you talking about, tolerable grind? I'm on the verge of quitting grinding for this stuff, it is the most tedious grind out of all the MMO's. This MMO the grind is just pressing z and the arrow keys... If they implement this change it's gg for me. 

If you make it to end game in this game, gj you wasted mad time. Should of just played pokemon showdown.

[fredrichnietze]

alright so cody remember in math class when they told you "anything times infinity equals infinity"? what this means is the one time cost of X amount of hours to make a comp is LESS time then shorter time times infinity because you have to do it again and again every few weeks or months for all of your comps forever.

 

forget the market. infinite grind to not loose everything would kill the game. 

 

this is as simple as i can state this.

[Gilan]

instead of just flat out dying... Make them retired old farts who can't pvp battle and can't breed. They can still do PvE stuff though. But anyways... yeaaaah.... not gonna happen.

[codylramey]

alright so cody remember in math class when they told you "anything times infinity equals infinity"? what this means is the one time cost of X amount of hours to make a comp is LESS time then shorter time times infinity because you have to do it again and again every few weeks or months for all of your comps forever.

 

forget the market. infinite grind to not loose everything would kill the game. 

 

this is as simple as i can state this.

Tbh i rushed that argument was at work on a break that was about to end.

 

Yes in the long run you will ultimately end up grinding more. But the grind could be to a point where the reward you get at the end is worth it. Right now, even with the permanent pokemon its just not worth the time to a lot of people. But if i could take an hour get a good pokemon that will last me X amount of tournies (keep in mind that X does not have to be a small number) even tho that pokemon wont last me the entirety of my pokemmo carer its still worth it bc i didnt have to spend all that much time and effort into getting that pokemon.  You see the guy above you who is sick of the grind the game as it is now, hes sick of it even despite him being able to keep his work forever. I believe you even quit. Players like JJ, Bowser, Jstud, and myself dont have the time it takes to invest into this game to further our development. New players take forever getting into comp, people rarely try new things, meta evolves slowly all of this can be fixed w/o destroying the economy if pokemon werent permanent. Ofc you can say "well lets just get rid of the grind". But then you're destroying the economy, which doesnt seem to concern you.

Edited September 3, 2015 by codylramey

[Robofiend]

It might work if they fixed EV training instead of just terminally derping out about it and not realizing that it makes the game unplayable for serious players.

[Spaintakula]

How do I even explain to my pokemon that the more they get out of their pokeball, the closer they are to their death, how...

[codylramey]

It might work if they fixed EV training instead of just terminally derping out about it and not realizing that it makes the game unplayable for serious players.

Yea one of the goals of this suggestion it to bring the realization that they could tone all of these grinds down by a significant level if we werent allowed to keep our pokemon indefinitely. Breeding, Ev training, BP grinding, Shard grinding, all of it could be a lot easier w/o the econ suffering as a result.

 

How do I even explain to my pokemon that the more they get out of their pokeball, the closer they are to their death, how...

Everyone has got to face death sometime brah.

Edited September 3, 2015 by codylramey