Luke Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) I don't even really play lower tiers and it bothers me. Something will drop to NU for like 2 months and immediately go up, and then 2 months after this it will be in contention to drop again.. Completely changing the meta over and over. This kinda locks the NU player-base into: Those who are passionate about the tier, those who want to play all tiers, And those who are rich and can adapt to these shifts on the fly (not many competitive PVP players) which also locks how much it can actually grow. I personally thought of some sort of clause where if something drops it can't go back up for X amount of time. Curious on other people's ideas. (I am no longer TC so this is not TC asking for some discussion on this, it just hasn't been removed from my profile lol) Edited July 20, 2023 by Luke DoubleJ, Johnwaynee, epicdavenport and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) Idea of change cutoffs are being applied for this season. If this helps it's fine. If not, my idea is use Viability Rankings(On same way than on the Lower tiers of Smogon Metas of RBY, GSC and ADV.) but for that they would need to update the VRs that are a bit outdated and froze the tiers. Using only tournament usage to negate interference of History teams and Low Ladder mememaker teams is also good, but this is not viable for now just because there is no way to get this usage if not manually. Edited July 20, 2023 by caioxlive13 Link to comment
drewq Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Allegedly this has been addressed with new cutoffs. We will see how it plays out. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Sargeste Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 4 hours ago, drewq said: Allegedly this has been addressed with new cutoffs. We will see how it plays out. Until you look at the UU usage stats for this month. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Sargeste said: Until you look at the UU usage stats for this month. It's too bad the situation? Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) Well, after seeing the possible movements i think we should look movements carefully, and one of the biggest problem is some movements are unnecessary and harmful for the lower tier. I don't want to see in the future a mon that just gain a HA on NU, rise to OU just of popularity and later drop back, since it was not even broken on first place. Like, think on how harmful would be if after Altaria gain WoW it became popular and rise to UU, just to two months later it return to NU? While altaria is out, the tier would be negatively harmed. I'm on favor of: Having the current cutoffs to see the avaliable movements for the month. However, at 1st day of month all possibly movements will be listed on a thread and a vote to all movements would be held. Yes, tier council could stop a rise/drop if they see that this movement isn't even worthy to happen. At 7th day of the month, the movements approved would go live. To not be a painful task to tier council and munya, this could be avaliable only on final month, when movements are most likely to happen. Answer to possible Counterarguments and some questions - 1. Tier council couldn't manipulate which mons they want to rise/drop with that? - Yes, they could. But if discovered, what image they would pass to us? That they're not trustworthy to be TC members in first place. This could lead even from moderators kicking them out of TC. If they want to take this risk, it's up to him, but the consequences are on table. - Also, on october/november when HAs get released, not a single movement for that month was by usage. Every single movement was voted. And we don't have any problem with those movements. The TC members changed a bit but i think they're trustworthy, especially Imperial for some things he did in the past that makes people trust on him(Acting as middleman on almost every bet thread on tours.) 2. Why we don't let the movements happen naturally? If a mon are with usage rising, it means that are good on tier, right? - On Tournament usage coming from World Cup/PSL, official tours on late rounds, and matches of players both above 600 elo on MM, that would be true because they take the ladder seriously. On Ladder in general, that are what is considered to happen usage movements, that is not true due to one reason: Storyline Players. They come to PvP with the team he uses to finish league. Those people are usually under 500- elo. They could be a bit high if face some players also on same situation. That's actually the reason why Jolteon, that almost every player that have at least 75 QI agree that are bad on OU metagaming, was locked on OU for seasons. 3. This can be very annoying on long-term to do. - This solution alongside with the other i offer, using VRs or Tour usage, is not supposed to be permanent. If we had a filter for usage, based on elo range, is more than enough to we go back even to the first cutoff use(1st and 2nd month 6,7%+ ⏫ , 1,7%- ⏬, 3rd month 4.36% both ways.) 4. What are the expected benefits? - Reducing the tier yoyo'ing, because if TC is aware that a mon is not that good on upper tier they could block him from rising in first place. - Also, preventing the Ladder Spam to remove a mon from a tier. Currently, given how much dead the tiers below are, people can pick a partner in crime or a alt, and spam ladder match with a NU dominating mon, and if they spam matches from day 1 to 31, non-stop, they can get enough usage to force the mon to rise. Nothing like that happened on MMO but happened a few times in Smogon. Most recently happened with Hitmontop, that rised all the way to RU and don't get rised more because it was stopped there, with smogon blocking rises on last two cycles of a gen. If the movements gets voted, this type of situation could be stopped. Edited July 31, 2023 by caioxlive13 Link to comment
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