[Suggestion] Rewards Improvement

VadimEmpoleon · December 17, 2023

I suggest improving the pokémon rewards we get from PvP, official tournaments and official events. I will split this suggestion into some sections depending on the type of event we get the pokémon from:

Official Tournaments Shiny Pokémon Prizes

I think these pokémon need this improvement:

3 Selectable IVs (0-31)+3x28 IVs -> 6 Selectable IVs (0-31)
2 Moves -> 4 Moves

Why? These Pokémon should have perfect IVs for competitive use, otherwise they are not worth using over other with better IVs. We should also be able to choose 4 moves because some pokémon may need more than 2 egg moves, not many pokémon need this but an example I can think of is Sneasel for NU or UT, Icicle Crash, Bite and Pursuit are egg moves and they are useful together in a CB set.

What impact would this change have? When it comes to the economy of the game it would have no impact because they are untradeable and the number of shiny prizes that are given every day is insignificant compared to the number of shiny pokémon that spawn. It may also attract more people to the competitive aspect of the game which would be helpful for the current players since the playerbase of UU, NU and Doubles is not that big.

Official Events Shiny Pokémon Prizes

For consistency and for the same reasons that were stated above they should have the same change that the official tournaments shiny pokémon prizes:

3 Selectable IVs (0-31)+3x28 IVs -> 6 Selectable IVs (0-31)
2 Moves -> 4 Moves

Official Tournaments and Events Non Shiny Prizes

I suggest reducing the number of non shiny prizes and restrict them only to rare pokémon (Starters, Eevee, Beldum, Porygon, Larvesta,etc.), this would encourage more people to play tournaments.

Community Combat Tournaments

2 Selectable IVs (0-31)+4x29 IVs -> 6 Selectable IVs (0-31)
2 Moves -> 4 Moves

While it is true that we get a lot of Community Combat Tournaments they are still tournaments and should have perfect pokémon as reward. They already give $$$ instead of RP.

Would this affect economy? No, because the amount of competitive pokémon obtained from Community Combat is much lower compared to the amount of pokémon that are bred every day. They are also untradeable.

PvP 1200 Points Rewards

Getting these rewards is much easier compared to the other ones so they should not be perfect, otherwise they may hurt economy so I suggest these changes:

2 Selectable IVs (0-31) -> 3 Selectable IVs (0-31)
2 Moves -> 4 Moves
Possible change: 25 IVs -> 27 or 29 IVs

Why? Some pokémon need 3 selectable IVs to be worth using them, specially mixed attackers and defensive mons with 0 speed like Bronzong. Regarding the upgrade from 25 IVs to 27 or 29, this change would make those mons more useful which is good for new players but it may hurt economy to some degree, I believe increasing the IVs from 25 to 27 wouldn't have a significant impact but increasing them to 29 would so I guess 25->27 would be the best option. Leaving them at 25 is also an option but I believe 25->27 is better.

These changes wouldn't fix everything because mons like Gliscor are useless (or less useful) without their hidden ability. I think the rewards shouldn't come with HA but we need a Prismatic Pearl rework which is too expensive to get right now. I may do a new suggestion regarding this later.

A known issue is that people want to increase the IVs from the pokémon they obtained in past events/tournaments because they had worse IVs than the current ones. This would be even a bigger issue if these changes happened, to fix this an item that changes the IVs from gift pokémon could be released but this would be a totally different suggestion.

Gengarcello · December 18, 2023

doubt it, tbh.

as it will ruin everything.

Better yet instead of full 6, how about full 4 selectable IVs instead

FlacuSkye · December 18, 2023

18 minutes ago, Gengarcello said:

doubt it, tbh.

as it will ruin everything.

Better yet instead of full 6, how about full 4 selectable IVs instead

selectable ivs should be anything but 4 since it's pretty much useless, at lvl 50 ev spreads should only be invested on either 3 or 5 stats (essentially meaning 3x31 or 5x31) since when investing on 4 stats, you'll have 4 remaining evs that can't invested on any of those 4 stats because of how they work at lvl 50

you can even see it for urself on https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/teambuilder

Spoiler

Every Pokémon can have a maximum of 510 EVs in total and a maximum of 252 EVs per stat. At level 100, EVs are worked with in multiples of 4, as a Pokémon gains a 1 point stat increase for every 4 EVs that are added. At level 50, EVs are worked with in multiples of 8, as a Pokémon gains a 1 point stat increase for every 8 EVs that are added. One important side note is that at level 50, a stat with 31 IVs will start increasing at 4 EVs and then increase with every 8 EVs (4, 12, 20, 28, and so on) whereas a stat with 30 IVs will always increase with every 8 EVs (8, 16, 24, 32, and so on).

VadimEmpoleon · December 18, 2023

50 minutes ago, Gengarcello said:

as it will ruin everything.

Better yet instead of full 6, how about full 4 selectable IVs instead

What would it ruin and why?

Gengarcello · December 18, 2023

1 hour ago, VadimEmpoleon said:

What would it ruin and why?

1. Utilizing 6 choosable IVs in a gift mon will underappreciate bred comp mons.

2. It would be a shame as well as you fill your entire pc with these untradeable mons.

1 hour ago, FlacuSkye said:

selectable ivs should be anything but 4 since it's pretty much useless, at lvl 50 ev spreads should only be invested on either 3 or 5 stats (essentially meaning 3x31 or 5x31) since when investing on 4 stats, you'll have 4 remaining evs that can't invested on any of those 4 stats because of how they work at lvl 50

you can even see it for urself on https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/teambuilder

Hide contents

Every Pokémon can have a maximum of 510 EVs in total and a maximum of 252 EVs per stat. At level 100, EVs are worked with in multiples of 4, as a Pokémon gains a 1 point stat increase for every 4 EVs that are added. At level 50, EVs are worked with in multiples of 8, as a Pokémon gains a 1 point stat increase for every 8 EVs that are added. One important side note is that at level 50, a stat with 31 IVs will start increasing at 4 EVs and then increase with every 8 EVs (4, 12, 20, 28, and so on) whereas a stat with 30 IVs will always increase with every 8 EVs (8, 16, 24, 32, and so on).

also no. 3: this one

PrinBruce · December 18, 2023

2 hours ago, Gengarcello said:

1. Utilizing 6 choosable IVs in a gift mon will underappreciate bred comp mons.

2. It would be a shame as well as you fill your entire pc with these untradeable mons.

also no. 3: this one

Okay, but how would someone be able to easily do that? Even for the best pvp players, winning a tournament so frequently is unrealistic - not to talk about catch events, which are even harder to win

The "easiest" gift mons to obtain are the 1200 points reward ones, which are also not that simple to obtain. Also, it takes 2 weeks for the reward mon of each tier to change. Considering we have 52 weeks a year, that would be around 26 reward mons per year, which is not even half a box, and that's considering the person gets every reward mon from that tier, no skips or weeks without it - which only the most ultra giga pvp lovers could do. Of course, the person could also get reward mons from more than 1 tier at a time, but playing consistently on 2 or more tiers simultaneously is crazy of a work, specially for a whole year...

I agree that the 1200 reward mons don't need to be perfect, but while casual players may use 2x31 and have good times with it, some more specialized pvp players won't even touch such mons - maybe to test a crazy or new set, but not as the main one -, and I see it as a shame that pvpers can't even use the mons they got after so much work

Example:
252+ Atk Fighting Gem Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 142-168 (90.4 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(considering the standard set for Hitmontop currently as adamant, technician, fighting gem, according to pvp statistics)

This means that using a 1200 points Hitmontop can be a real problem, since u:
- max hp and attack and is almost certainly outsped by opposing hitmontop (considering a perfect one), which means urs die over half the time
252+ Atk Fighting Gem Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmontop: 145-172 (92.3 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO ( 25 def hitmontop has more than 50 percent of chance, instead of 43.8);
- max hp and speed, but then urs chances of ohko ur opponent are reduced to 31.3 percent (again, perfect one), while he wayyy more likely to ohko u;
- max att and speed, but then, again, ur even more likely to be ohkoed.

These considerations were made with the standard set of 252hp, 252 att and 6spe in mind (set taken from the the NU sets samples)

Of course I dont mean we should gift out perfect hitmontops everywhere, since that would reallllyyy impact tyrogues market, but having one of the best and most used mons in the tier have such a marginal disavantage on this interaction (which is not a random one, since, at least today, hit is NUs most used mon, with nearly one thid of usages) is just one point of why I personally think reward mons need a revamp

Sorry for the long text.I cant talk about other tiers unf as I am a NU player, but thats my opinion ❤️

VadimEmpoleon · December 18, 2023

3 hours ago, Gengarcello said:

1. Utilizing 6 choosable IVs in a gift mon will underappreciate bred comp mons.

It won't, there are a lot more of bred comp mons than gift ones.

3 hours ago, Gengarcello said:

2. It would be a shame as well as you fill your entire pc with these untradeable mons.

If you don't need useful comp shiny or normal mons in your PC you can release them if you wish

3 hours ago, Gengarcello said:

also no. 3: this one

This doesn't apply to any of the mons mentioned in the suggestion because 28/29->31 is an upgrade with or without EVs and making them 5x31 1x30 instead of 6x31 is pointless.

TohnR · December 18, 2023

Guys we already had this discussion countless times and the devs always straight out replied they wouldn't, because it would "ruin" the (shiny breeding) economy ...
There's nothing to do or discuss about improving tournament rewards anymore. 😭

There's a real battle about improving ladder rewards imo but that's a whole different subject !

Edited December 18, 2023 by TohnR

Lumiere · December 18, 2023

It should improve just ladder rewards from 2x31 4x25 to 2x31 4x29 (current CC's reward but quite imperfect) and the CC rewards should update from 2x31 4x29 to 3x31 3x28 so at least they will be "useful" mons and not stuff to keep forgotten in the PC because they are too bad to get played and also it wont "ruin" the economy.

VadimEmpoleon · December 18, 2023

48 minutes ago, Lumiere said:

It should improve just ladder rewards from 2x31 4x25 to 2x31 4x29 (current CC's reward but quite imperfect) and the CC rewards should update from 2x31 4x29 to 3x31 3x28 so at least they will be "useful" mons and not stuff to keep forgotten in the PC because they are too bad to get played and also it wont "ruin" the economy.

There is no reason to not update the other ones or not doing the CC ones 6x31, it will have no impact in the economy at all. Also making the ladder ones only 2x31 is not enough for things like mixed Garchomp, Blaziken, etc.

Lumiere · December 18, 2023

7 minutes ago, VadimEmpoleon said:

There is no reason to not update the other ones or not doing the CC ones 6x31, it will have no impact in the economy at all. Also making the ladder ones only 2x31 is not enough for things like mixed Garchomp, Blaziken, etc.

Ur asking for too much 🙂
Ladder rewards shouldn't be that perfect, thats why 2x31 4x29 its fine, its at least "usable" since they are "free"
Making CC's 6x31 its just a bad idea, they are not even official tournaments and the 6x31 official tournaments would lose their purpose

VadimEmpoleon · December 18, 2023

6 minutes ago, Lumiere said:

Ur asking for too much 🙂
Ladder rewards shouldn't be that perfect, thats why 2x31 4x29 its fine, its at least "usable" since they are "free"
Making CC's 6x31 its just a bad idea, they are not even official tournaments and the 6x31 official tournaments would lose their purpose

I don't think 3x31 3x27 is too much, actually I think 2x31 4x29 is even higger for most mons.

Regarding the CC rewards, I don't think we should get official tournaments with non shiny prizes like Dugtrio, Machamp, Crobat or any other mon whose shiny is common, and restrict the non shiny tournaments to rare species like starters, beldum, etc. and any other species to CC.

VadimEmpoleon · December 18, 2023

1 minute ago, VadimEmpoleon said:

I don't think 3x31 3x27 is too much, actually I think 2x31 4x29 is even higger for most mons.

Regarding the CC rewards, I don't think we should get official tournaments with non shiny prizes like Dugtrio, Machamp, Crobat or any other mon whose shiny is common, and restrict the non shiny tournaments to rare species like starters, beldum, etc. and any other species to CC.

Even 3x31 3x25 would be enough for the ladder ones, it just needs an extra selectable IV for mixed attackers and mons like Bronzong or Ferrothorn which may need 0 speed.

Stokes · December 18, 2023

I think 3x31 2x28 cc is a god idea.

Zuladra · December 19, 2023

More than the IVs it would be nice to be able to choose the species or to obtain a species at random instead of collecting the tenth version of the same Pokémon.

MisakiMei · December 19, 2023

Recently I've pushed myself to get ladder mon for the first time.
I honestly think I would spend this time better when single encountering for shiny rattata

No wonder some tiers are considered dead when game doesn't encourage you to look into them

image.png.b921528eddc8a2be28d89d6035bd4adc.png

Summrs · December 19, 2023

Ladder rewards are fine the way they are. We dont need 1,000+ free comps being introduced when the untouched mon/breeding market has already seen a massive decrease from the implementation of alpha mons. Buffing the VERY EASY to accomplish ladder rewards would only further drop the prices of Pokemon that many players go out and catch for profit.

VadimEmpoleon · December 19, 2023

35 minutes ago, Summrs said:

Ladder rewards are fine the way they are. We dont need 1,000+ free comps being introduced when the untouched mon/breeding market has already seen a massive decrease from the implementation of alpha mons. Buffing the VERY EASY to accomplish ladder rewards would only further drop the prices of Pokemon that many players go out and catch for profit.

It is not about making them better, it is about making them useful, if you get a Blaziken from the ladder rewards and want it to be a mixed attacker you can’t get 31 on the 3 main stats (Atk, SpAtk and Speed), same thing applies for mons like Bronzong, if you want to use it with Gyro Ball you need 0 Speed so you can’t get 31 on the other 2 main stats (HP and Def/SpDef). Adding another 31 won’t affect the market at all.

Regarding the 25->27 buff, imo it won’t change anything since 27 IVs are not that great and it is already a big downgrade from 31, anyway this is not needed, adding another 31 is enough, I just suggest it (I put it as optional) because it would make those rewards better and would have no downsides, 29 IVs are too close to 31 so that’s why I said it could affect to the market and it is a better idea to just change 25->27.

They wouldn’t be perfect, it would still encourage people to breed perfect 5x30/31 mons.

Anyway, I am just repeating in other words what was already stated in the main post.

PrinBruce · December 19, 2023

56 minutes ago, Summrs said:

Ladder rewards are fine the way they are. We dont need 1,000+ free comps being introduced when the untouched mon/breeding market has already seen a massive decrease from the implementation of alpha mons. Buffing the VERY EASY to accomplish ladder rewards would only further drop the prices of Pokemon that many players go out and catch for profit.

The "easiest" ladder rewards we have is from randoms. Every other tier is a pain to get too, specially UU and NU (theres so few matches ur expected to wait a few turns betweeen ur battles). It would not ruin the economy because the effor to get a ladder mon is much higher than simply buying up a semi comp. Considering an average 30 points per win of a match, u would need 40 wins to get to that point. Even if u won all ur 40 matches straight (which I think is unlekely for everyone, but ok), with, like, 8 minutes per match (which is even lower than a lot of matches, specially considering stally metas, like NUs, but ok), u would still need 320 minutes of play (not counting wait times) to get to 1200 points. Thats 6 hours and 20 minutes. If u just didnt pvp and instead used the most consistent money methods with that time (aka gym run), u could make over a million, which would let u buy almost any 5x31 natured mon u want

I dont think the problem to economy would be reward mons when, as u just said, Alphas left a MAssive dent in the mark and continue as op as they are, and the effort to getting to such a point in pvps is really great and huge. Its not as easy it seems

PrinBruce · December 19, 2023

And thats just talking about the pokemon u get. The other pvp rewards are even less valuable... Like, 1 unity of an untradeable item (which most pvp players have?)? Oh, ty...

Zuladra · December 20, 2023

23 hours ago, VadimEmpoleon said:

It is not about making them better, it is about making them useful.

That’s the idea indeed.

23 hours ago, PrinBruce said:

Every other tier is a pain to get too […] If u just didnt pvp and instead used the most consistent money methods with that time (aka gym run), u could make over a million, which would let u buy almost any 5x31 natured mon u want

As a dead tier player, I can confirm this.

MisakiMei · December 20, 2023

On 12/19/2023 at 8:29 PM, PrinBruce said:

Every other tier is a pain to get too, specially UU and NU (theres so few matches ur expected to wait a few turns betweeen ur battles).

Not to mention that you need to have comp already if you want to win anything. So you have to dump money into pokemons just to get close to nothing out of it

PrinBruce · December 21, 2023

Fr. As a NU player (aka someone who has to wait for who knows how long to find a single opponent), getting to 1200 points is anything but fast. Just did it again to get Typhlosion, and it felt like a snail walking lmao

[Suggestion] Rewards Improvement

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