[Denied]TM Distribution - a more feasible idea.

[GracefulCure]

Laziness shouldn't dictate the quality of the game. An idea like this should be a well thought out system that takes time to develop. Adding all TM's to a shop is like a "quick fix" that just creates another issue. It would be more beneficial to invest time in a higher quality system than 'the easy way out'.

After all, it's the devs who are the ones spending their own time developing it. They would be the ones complaining about how difficult it is, not you.

Thank you for not reading my post, oh and shoving words in my mouth.

[Darkshade]

Im wondering what would actually require more work - this, or celadon team Rockets casino.

Other than that, Youre pretty creative person Darkshade, and that's definitely not the only project You came with that i liked a lot.

I think this is still kind of ''clean'' idea and maybe there's few details players should discuss over but it sure is pretty nice one, keep it up.

Just in my opinion pokemons comming from the breeding should not get the TM's.

Thankyou, I live for creativity, it's what everything I do is based on - or at least try.

It would likely take more effort to incorporate this, but the benefits outweight the tiny bit of extra effort.

Laziness shouldn't dictate the quality of the game. An idea like this should be a well thought out system that takes time to develop. Adding all TM's to a shop is like a "quick fix" that just creates another issue. It would be more beneficial to invest time in a higher quality system than 'the easy way out'.

After all, it's the devs who are the ones spending their own time developing it. They would be the ones complaining about how difficult it is, not you.

That's what I was trying to explain, mostly.

Whereas by massing alts/adding a TM shop, there is a definite timeline to how fast I can get what I need. Hell, I could assemble a team to clear the storyline as fast as possible by trading a pokemon to my alt whose level is just under the badge level cap after each gym.

It's a nice system, but it seems too luck based to be used efficiently without causing frustration.

Yes but you're saying "Give me that because I want it"

And actually many TM's would be easier to obtain through this method. You could go to the effort making of a new account just to get X item, but with the amount of players playing the game it would be easier to trade for it from another player.

And remember the Pokemon you catch could always hold TM's, so you could sell those to buy others, and there's always the VS seeker for more money.

[Dahaka]

Yes but you're saying "Give me that because I want it"

And actually many TM's would be easier to obtain through this method. You could go to the effort making of a new account just to get X item, but with the amount of players playing the game it would be easier to trade for it from another player.

And remember the Pokemon you catch could always hold TM's, so you could sell those to buy others, and there's always the VS seeker for more money.

I'm saying you're making things more complex than they need to be. There's too many if's and could's. It's a nice idea, but it seems overly complicated for the purpose it serves. I wouldn't be opposed to it being implemented though.

I'm leaving this thread now.

[Darkshade]

I'm saying you're making things more complex than they need to be. There's too many if's and could's. It's a nice idea, but it seems overly complicated for the purpose it serves. I wouldn't be opposed to it being implemented though.

I'm leaving this thread now.

Again that's debatable, and the percentage could also be edited to be whatever number.

I wouldn't say it was complicated, but of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm glad you hold nothing against it,

and I must go now too, to sleep! ^^

Hope to read some replies when I wake up.~

[Othienka]

Although I do like the idea, why would a wild pokemon have a machine that teaches them moves? And if they are "holding" it, why wouldn't they know said move, if captured?

Now, if only NPC trainer pokemons/battles had a chance to drop TMs . . .

Actually having them drop from wild pokemon does give it a more mmo grind-ish feel. But they would be easier to acquire.

A TM shop is the easiest option in terms of work needed to be implemented.

And Dahaka, this is a suggestion thinking for the future of the game, where we won't have the ease of making 100s of alt accounts from a single email account, while multi-clienting on the same IP, in the same PC.

[Elite]

Thank you for not reading my post, oh and shoving words in my mouth.

I read your posts, and I'm not shoving words in your mouth. You come across as complaining about how difficult it would be to implement this, and I responded accordingly. How about you read your own posts?

"but it's going to require editing every pokemon's held items, which is going to take a lot more time than editing the shop script."

"it's not infeasible, but it's not something they can do overnight either."

"And still, it's editing every pokemon, which is a hefty change."

Now back to the actual thread discussion;

It's a possibility, I'm not sure whether it should be possible or not, if this idea ever happened, it would be down to the devs to decide, or we could have a discussion over it also.

Considering an egg would give a baby version of the Pokemon, (in the Magmar example), you wouldn't be able to get flamethrower through breeding. And it's not like evolving into a Magmar would have a chance to give a flamethrower TM. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: expanding on the above; desired TM's like flamethrower should be on evolved forms of Pokemon, so they cannot be farmed through breeding. Having lesser desired TM's on base evolution Pokemon (obtainable through breeding) shouldn't be too big of a deal if it is in fact 1-5% of receiving the TM.

[vsalinas005]

I just got an idea that would keep TM rarity when/if the GEN 5 idea of TM behavior is implemented: Since about 50% of the TMs can be bought in the pokecenters through out Unova and also are infinite in quantity as they never disappear as if they were 1 time use items like previous generations, what if you were to rescript each pokecenter/mart assistant that sells Tms/mail/ specialtypokeballs to be event scripted persons that give a random event quest or even act as portals for a (regional) server tournament that takes place within Unova only? Then reapplied the currently suggested "low chance to have X TM" to the Unova pokemon.

Then you could simply add the value of the Specialtypokeball/mail from the assistant to the main shopkeeper's list of available items to keep it somewhat identical to the original shop in B/W.

[GracefulCure]

I read your posts, and I'm not shoving words in your mouth. You come across as complaining about how difficult it would be to implement this, and I responded accordingly. How about you read your own posts?

Then you over react, Is it a crime to point out problems? Should I just lick yours or Darkshade's boots? I said I liked and supported the idea, So how about you take two seconds to try and not start arguments with people who agree with you.

Darkshade clearly has no problem with me pointing out what I see as potential problems, why do you seem so offended?

Although I do like the idea, why would a wild pokemon have a machine that teaches them moves? And if they are "holding" it, why wouldn't they know said move, if captured?

Now, if only NPC trainer pokemons/battles had a chance to drop TMs . . .

Actually having them drop from wild pokemon does give it a more mmo grind-ish feel. But they would be easier to acquire.

A TM shop is the easiest option in terms of work needed to be implemented.

And Dahaka, this is a suggestion thinking for the future of the game, where we won't have the ease of making 100s of alt accounts from a single email account, while multi-clienting on the same IP, in the same PC.

The Trainer Drops is a neat idea as well, that would be cool.

[Tenebris]

So I'll have to buy several hundred pokeballs and release the dozens upon dozens of pokemon I catch but don't want? (only catching them for tm's) Thief would make this better, since I can just thief and steal the TM from them. I know that the TM's would have a good value since you have to keep in mind the costs of pokeballs. But if it costs me 19000 in ultra balls to get blizzard, no one is going to pay more than 19000 for blizzard so I'd lose out by selling it.

[Elite]

So I'll have to buy several hundred pokeballs and release the dozens upon dozens of pokemon I catch but don't want? (only catching them for tm's)

People do this anyways when they're hunting for the right IV/nature combo, or even looking for shinies. But I see your point, it is costly and tedious.

Thief would make this better, since I can just thief and steal the TM from them.

The cost of Pokeballs would determine the production cost of TM's. Using thief would turn the production cost of TM's to 0, in turn making the market value of TM's minimal to nil. Having to spend currency on Pokeballs to get TM's creates a market.

I know that the TM's would have a good value since you have to keep in mind the costs of pokeballs. But if it costs me 19000 in ultra balls to get blizzard, no one is going to pay more than 19000 for blizzard so I'd lose out by selling it.

Yes, there is a risk getting the TM's yourself this way, you could lose out on a lot of Pokeballs. But you could get the TM on your first try as well. The element of risk balances it out in the long run, and the economy should be stable between market value and production cost.

[EXTYEX]

What if rarer pokemon have percentage drops for TMs?

I suggested this a while ago. Hope it takes off. But it think it should be a much higher percentage than 5%

[Alex]

This idea has been brought up before (see the tagged thread on the bottom) and I still think it's the best way to handle getting additional TMs. Using the Horsea example:

Someone hunting for a good Horsea to train can trade off any extra Water Pulses or Dragon Scales that they find.

Someone hunting for Dragon Scales can trade off Water Pulses or a good Horsea they find.

Someone hunting TMs can trade off Dragon Scales or a good Horsea they find.

[Elite]

I suggested this a while ago. Hope it takes off. But it think it should be a much higher percentage than 5%

Great ideas are usually suggested by multiple people ;). Actually 5% is higher than it sounds, 1/20 Pokemon is pretty common. 5% chance should be for the so-so TM's, while desirable TM's should be like 1-2%.

[Aidden]

I think this is a great idea. Support

[Xavier]

What I was thinking, is that the TM just has a chance of being put in your bag after you catch it, but the originally obtained item is still at the sam percentage rate of being found.

[Tokxilchaosz]

What I was thinking, is that the TM just has a chance of being put in your bag after you catch it, but the originally obtained item is still at the sam percentage rate of being found.

That doesn't sound any better than whats already been proposed.

I'd imagine every Pokemon would have a loot table, and TMs would be incorporated around legacy held items.

You can just set the original item drop rate to the same as before, and make TMs more rare than it. This would marginally increase the overall droprate of getting something while allowing pokemon with legacy held items to keep their drop rate on those items.

[Darkshade]

Although I do like the idea, why would a wild pokemon have a machine that teaches them moves? And if they are "holding" it, why wouldn't they know said move, if captured?

Now, if only NPC trainer pokemons/battles had a chance to drop TMs . . .

Actually having them drop from wild pokemon does give it a more mmo grind-ish feel. But they would be easier to acquire.

A TM shop is the easiest option in terms of work needed to be implemented.

And Dahaka, this is a suggestion thinking for the future of the game, where we won't have the ease of making 100s of alt accounts from a single email account, while multi-clienting on the same IP, in the same PC.

I can actually explain this.

The picture above is the technical machine, supposedly every trainer has one, it's able to teach the TM's to a Pokemon, so following up on that, the idea is that it also has a small chance of taking one away from it's learnset (If we really need an explanation that is.)

It wouldn't stop them learning the move at all, nor would it take it away if it already knew it, it's like making a copy.

And I really don't think that making an alt account for getting TM's would be any easier with the amount of people playing, TM's would be very much available - in response to Dahaka.

Back to you Othienka, whilst I agree a shop is an easy way to do it, it is as someone has said "A quick fix", whereas with this idea you are able to help the economy, help the community and increase socialization all in one. :)

Also having trainers give you some TM's too (possibly) is a pretty neat idea.

I read your posts, and I'm not shoving words in your mouth. You come across as complaining about how difficult it would be to implement this, and I responded accordingly. How about you read your own posts?

Now back to the actual thread discussion;

Considering an egg would give a baby version of the Pokemon, (in the Magmar example), you wouldn't be able to get flamethrower through breeding. And it's not like evolving into a Magmar would have a chance to give a flamethrower TM. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: expanding on the above; desired TM's like flamethrower should be on evolved forms of Pokemon, so they cannot be farmed through breeding. Having lesser desired TM's on base evolution Pokemon (obtainable through breeding) shouldn't be too big of a deal if it is in fact 1-5% of receiving the TM.

Right, Pokemon couldn't contain TM's via evolution. And I'm still not 100% on the breeding thing, I don't think they should be holding TM's on birth.

I just got an idea that would keep TM rarity when/if the GEN 5 idea of TM behavior is implemented: Since about 50% of the TMs can be bought in the pokecenters through out Unova and also are infinite in quantity as they never disappear as if they were 1 time use items like previous generations, what if you were to rescript each pokecenter/mart assistant that sells Tms/mail/ specialtypokeballs to be event scripted persons that give a random event quest or even act as portals for a (regional) server tournament that takes place within Unova only? Then reapplied the currently suggested "low chance to have X TM" to the Unova pokemon.

Then you could simply add the value of the Specialtypokeball/mail from the assistant to the main shopkeeper's list of available items to keep it somewhat identical to the original shop in B/W.

I don't know how happy the devs would be to implement forever lasting TM's.

So I'll have to buy several hundred pokeballs and release the dozens upon dozens of pokemon I catch but don't want? (only catching them for tm's) Thief would make this better, since I can just thief and steal the TM from them. I know that the TM's would have a good value since you have to keep in mind the costs of pokeballs. But if it costs me 19000 in ultra balls to get blizzard, no one is going to pay more than 19000 for blizzard so I'd lose out by selling it.

Again, thief is a possibility.

I suggested this a while ago. Hope it takes off. But it think it should be a much higher percentage than 5%

The percentage was in example, and me too! :3

This idea has been brought up before (see the tagged thread on the bottom) and I still think it's the best way to handle getting additional TMs. Using the Horsea example:

Someone hunting for a good Horsea to train can trade off any extra Water Pulses or Dragon Scales that they find.

Someone hunting for Dragon Scales can trade off Water Pulses or a good Horsea they find.

Someone hunting TMs can trade off Dragon Scales or a good Horsea they find.

I skimmed the thread yesterday and didn't see it, but that's probably my bad. And exactly I think that's why it would work too! :3

Great ideas are usually suggested by multiple people ;). Actually 5% is higher than it sounds, 1/20 Pokemon is pretty common. 5% chance should be for the so-so TM's, while desirable TM's should be like 1-2%.

OP says "1-5%" but nothing is definite.

I think this is a great idea. Support

Thankyou~

What I was thinking, is that the TM just has a chance of being put in your bag after you catch it, but the originally obtained item is still at the sam percentage rate of being found.

Exactly, that shouldn't change.

That doesn't sound any better than whats already been proposed.

You can just set the original item drop rate to the same as before, and make TMs more rare than it. This would marginally increase the overall droprate of getting something while allowing pokemon with legacy held items to keep their drop rate on those items.

That's what I was proposing :)

[Fuark]

I really like this idea!

Like a MMO I used to play. Pokemons should drop items/eggs/tms/etc with low rates! This would make it more interesting and really fits the MMORPG theme.

[Solar]

Awesome idea Darkshade!

Haha, I can imagine safari zone pokemon holding TMs, that would be a real challenge o3o

I like challenges though, so in my opinion, there's no problem with low percentage rates and really difficult ways to get TMs. I'm open for anything x)

[Darkshade]

I really like this idea!

Like a MMO I used to play. Pokemons should drop items/eggs/tms/etc with low rates! This would make it more interesting and really fits the MMORPG theme.

Agreed, I wanted to come up with an idea that would keep TM's in circulation but weren't instantly obtainable, thus needing you to do X to obtain one, and I think this one fits the MMO the best :3

Awesome idea Darkshade!

Haha, I can imagine safari zone pokemon holding TMs, that would be a real challenge o3o

I like challenges though, so in my opinion, there's no problem with low percentage rates and really difficult ways to get TMs. I'm open for anything x)

Thankyou~

And yeah that would be cool, Scyther with secret power or something, but that would be torture xP!

People have complained you have to spend money on Pokeballs to obtain the TM's, but there is always thief, and an RNG idea is no different from the RNG that already exists when capturing a Pokemon anyway.

Most of pokemon is based on RNG.

[BossEpoch]

I think this would be incredibly difficult for the developers to do, they would have to edit every single pokemon to have a TM as a possible hold item, and I'm not sure if it's even possible for a Pokemon to spawn in the wild with two different possible hold items.

[Darkshade]

I think this would be incredibly difficult for the developers to do, they would have to edit every single pokemon to have a TM as a possible hold item, and I'm not sure if it's even possible for a Pokemon to spawn in the wild with two different possible hold items.

Why would it? It would literally be the same as giving the Pokemon the items they already hold, just with a different ID.

It may not be, I don't know. But, why does it matter? The devs can code it, so it's certainly possible.

They could only be caught holding one of the two, so it doesn't take away from the canon.

[Solar]

Agreed, I wanted to come up with an idea that would keep TM's in circulation but weren't instantly obtainable, thus needing you to do X to obtain one, and I think this one fits the MMO the best :3

Thankyou~

And yeah that would be cool, Scyther with secret power or something, but that would be torture xP!

People have complained you have to spend money on Pokeballs to obtain the TM's, but there is always thief, and an RNG idea is no different from the RNG that already exists when capturing a Pokemon anyway.

Most of pokemon is based on RNG.

I guess when the E4 is out we kind of have an infinite money supply (if we can rechallenge them), so I rather think the problem would be patience. Then again, some players with patience could make a business with selling rare TMs, maybe a bit more expensive, so then we kind of have a shop anyways, it's just a living price like in the real world. No?

[Darkshade]

I guess when the E4 is out we kind of have an infinite money supply (if we can rechallenge them), so I rather think the problem would be patience. Then again, some players with patience could make a business with selling rare TMs, maybe a bit more expensive, so then we kind of have a shop anyways, it's just a living price like in the real world. No?

Exactly :3

The issue seems to be that people are impatient, but how is that any different from EV training?

If you want the best, you need to work for it.

[Fuark]

It would be awesome to have users offline stores.

For example an area of a map is selected where you can place a bag or something before you get offline and you can put items to sell in there.