[OU Discussion] Slowbro [Remains OU]

[Robofiend]

Alright, here goes nothing.

 

 

The common man's set:

 

252hp/252def - Bold nature

-Surf/Ice Beam

-Psychic/HP Electric

-Slack Off

-Calm Mind/Twave

 

Slowbro has become an overnight celebrity in the PokeMMO OU meta with its newfound Slack Off skill and its ability to shrug off the new physical attacks that came with the split. It eats up Meteor Mash, Fire Punch, Dragon Claw, Super Power and Quake/Slide like a champ, and packs Calm Mind to set up as its opponents flee (or Thunderwave to cripple the switch in). Despite its vulnerability to status, it has consistently seen around 50% usage in OU - a usage level that usually indicates that the metagame is highly centralized around it. If this is the actually case, Slowbro might (sadly) need to be banished to Ubers.

 

A side note:

 

Imagine a metagame without some of the best pokes we have access to:

 

Dragonite

Metagross

Gyarados

Snorlax

Heracross

Gengar

 

Even if we banned all them, Slowbro would be amazingly good - it doesn't seem as though Slowbro is a reaction to Dragonite (for instance) being good, but rather that it is inherently good because of its typing, function on teams and access to instant healing. Another way of saying that is that none of these pokemon really check Slowbro: most can either absorb a couple of the Bro's attacks and try to force it out with CB attack spam or they face significant risks getting into play in the first place, dying to STAB Psychic.

 

This part of my argument is a preemptive strike on the line of thinking that says "No, Slowbro's not broken, it's just used a lot because X is used a lot so we should ban X" - My response: Slowbro is just inherently really good, it's not a reaction to anything but rather an action in itself that is contributing to the irrating phenomenon where every OU team is highly alike.

 

Discuss.

Edited February 22, 2015 by LeTyrone

[lVlusay]

Hmm...okay, but again, if it gets banned before Dragonite, that would be too sad.

[DrCraig]

Half of me says this thing is just an unhealthy garbage wall keeping the meta stagnant.

The other half says that Slowbro is like UU's Blastoise. Yes I realize the differences. But in common they both just sit there taking various physically hits, acting as safe switches. However Bro has Calm Mind going for it which keeps the opponent on their toes a lot more. Access to Twave cripples opponents which gives Bro free opportunities to be a pain in the ass by sitting and healing. Bro has two nice stabs also.

My biggest take away is that nothing easily breaks Slowbro, it is just a fat wall I view as u healthy to OU because of those safe switch, safe healing, safe everything abilities.

Edited February 11, 2015 by DrCraig

[Gunthug]

Half of me says this thing is just an unhealthy garbage wall keeping the meta stagnant.

The other half says that Slowbro is like UU's Blastoise. Yes I realize the differences. But in common they both just sit there taking various physically hits, acting as safe switches. However Bro has Calm Mind going for it which keeps the opponent on their toes a lot more. Access to Twave cripples opponents which gives Bro free opportunities to be a pain in the ass by sitting and healing. Bro has two nice stabs also.

My biggest take away is that nothing easily breaks Slowbro, it is just a fat wall I view as u healthy to OU because of those safe switch, safe healing, safe everything abilities.

I would agree that it's unhealthy. I think comparing it to UU's stoise is fitting, though I don't think stoise was unhealthy in UU. The difference here is the instant healing, and the pressure calm mind puts on teams. Hell, I'm even starting to be wary of counter slowbro after seeing it in the last tourney, which even causes snorlax some anxiety against this thing

Edited February 11, 2015 by Gunthug

[Rigamorty]

I just really can't support the banning of something from OU that gets completely rekt by toxic. Although, it could theoretically pack rest, but rest slowbro clearly isn't as efficient as slack off.

 

Calm Mind Slowbro has a lot of qualities that curselax has. Great wall without set up, and some offensive power to cause threat to things that may try to switch in. But it certainly isn't AS offensively scary as Snorlax without boosts. 

 

I sincerely do feel that Slowbro usage is a product of the environment. You point out that Slowbro is good regardless, but that isn't the problem in its case, the problem is every other bulky water having become worse in the meta, such as vaporeon, who just cannot get the job done anymore.

 

Also, what is with that list of "Imagine a metagame without some of the best pokes we have access to:" some of those things completely shit on Slowbro, so it'd very obviously do well without them. It sure as hell isn't a counter to gengar, gyarados, or heracross. Even putting Lax on that list is pushing it, because it'd be lucky to switch in and win that 1v1.

[Artemiseta]

I see this as slack off being sowbos greatest gaina nd its biggest weakness int eh new meta. if your opponent does not pack toxic or a status then slowbro is a monster that is incredibly hard to break (unless u  get a crit or 2)

with rest you avoid that status issue but then you need to wait the sleep off in which a poke could set up or a cb-er like dnite could 3 hit you to death as u sleep (inb4 sleep talk ice beam lol)

I see and get the blastoise comparisions but the main difference has been highlighted. instant healing is very hard to deal with and the cm mind to boost your weaker stats this makes slowbro a lot scarier than blastoise. not to mention duel stab moves

im on the fence about this one though it is very intriguing

[DestructX]

Took too long

Edited February 11, 2015 by DestructX

[Robofiend]

re: Toxic

 

Toxic's always been pretty dodgy in OU because of the presence of Aroma Blissey and Heal Bell Vap. With Blissey seeing more usage than ever right now, I don't think saying "Welp, Toxic rekts Slowbro so GG" is actually valid- you can poison it, but it can just swap out and let Blissey Aromatherapy it back to health. There are cases where status ruins Slowbro (esp. if you're not running a Heal Bell/Aroma pokemon and/or late game) but isn't it pretty centralizing to have to run Toxic just to deal with one pokemon? Almost nothing else in OU is vulnerable to it. 

 

Also, since Slowbro is used as a wall against the metagame's best sweepers, you pretty much have to put Toxic on Dragonite (or whoever) to hit Slowbro. It's not like you send in Slowbro against Bliss/Forretress, you send it in to block heavy hitters. The moment you send in a common status user the Slowbro user can just as easily swap to a Toxic blocker to counter your play.

[DoubleJ]

I commented in the other thread my thoughts on Slowbro. It has high usage because it is good, I give you that Robofiend, but I don't think it is "overly" good.

1. Calm Mind with STAB Surf and Psychic provides incredible coverage and hurts everything not named Starmie. Beyond that though you have room for one move, do you choose between Slack Off, Rest, Status, or some other gimmick? You can see the inherent flaws here, and the biggest problem with this set is that players are trying too hard to make this an offensive threat when it loses it's base function, walling physical attackers.

2. It's typing is great, but leaves it weak to Electric, Bug, Dark, Grass, and Ghost-type attacks. I'm seeing a lot of powerful, common moves that can terrify this baby. Sure non-STAB Crunch isn't that damaging, but these weaknesses limit what Slowbro can switch into and stay in on. You need to provide support for Slowbro through team building to avoid these weaknesses in battle. If it requires support to succeed, then should it be banned?

3. 4MSS. Choosing coverage moves such as Ice Beam, HP Electric, and Flamethrower to fight Dragonite, Gyarados, and Metagross leaves it open to abuse by other common threats. Without Rest, it becomes vulnerable to Toxic and without Slack-Off it can't wall like it's been built to. It simply just can't take repeated hits without having to heal at some point. Counter is a very nice surprise option, but not something that makes it broken. You see Counter once and you can work around it later.

4. It's absolutely shut down by Blissey. None of the other pokemon up for potential bans is absolutely stopped by one pokemon. There is a clear cut counter in the game that still has impressive usage. Sure a +6 CM Slowbro can almost 2HKO Blissey, but... ya not going to be that successful of an option.


I'm eager to read the thoughts of the other players in this game, but I hope that what I've provided can show that Slowbro, while very impressive, isn't necessarily broken and deserving of a ban.

[quote name="Robofiend" post="996773" timestamp="1423628725"]

re: Toxic

Also, since Slowbro is used as a wall against the metagame's best sweepers, you pretty much have to put Toxic on Dragonite (or whoever) to hit Slowbro. It's not like you send in Slowbro against Bliss/Forretress, you send it in to block heavy hitters. The moment you send in a common status user the Slowbro user can just as easily swap to a Toxic blocker to counter your play.[/quote]

And that's not necessarily true. Dragonite has a nice Special Attack stat, that when paired with Thunder/Thunderbolt can really hurt Slowbro if built right. +1 Thunderpunches don't always 2HKO this baby, but it's not something that Slowbro wants to take.

Physical sweepers can still hurt this thing. They just aren't guaranteed the 1-2HKO. Without a gimmicky, centralized moveset (HP Electric, Ice Beam, etc), it can't OHKO these threats and is forced out to avoid being killed.

[lVlusay]

I am not sure about slowbro to be honest. It's not a sweeper, it's a wall that can get wrecked by status... We already have such an offensive meta, do we want to take out one of the better walls in the game? Imagine Blaziken and Machamp if Slowbro wasn't in the game. Generally, most special walls can come in on Slowbro.

[Rigamorty]

re: Toxic

 

Toxic's always been pretty dodgy in OU because of the presence of Aroma Blissey and Heal Bell Vap. With Blissey seeing more usage than ever right now, I don't think saying "Welp, Toxic rekts Slowbro so GG" is actually valid- you can poison it, but it can just swap out and let Blissey Aromatherapy it back to health. There are cases where status ruins Slowbro (esp. if you're not running a Heal Bell/Aroma pokemon and/or late game) but isn't it pretty centralizing to have to run Toxic just to deal with one pokemon? Almost nothing else in OU is vulnerable to it. 

 

Also, since Slowbro is used as a wall against the metagame's best sweepers, you pretty much have to put Toxic on Dragonite (or whoever) to hit Slowbro. It's not like you send in Slowbro against Bliss/Forretress, you send it in to block heavy hitters. The moment you send in a common status user the Slowbro user can just as easily swap to a Toxic blocker to counter your play.

using toxic on it basically acts as an extra phazing move, if not a killer. and since slowbro desperately needs to set up multiple times to ever be really scary, that's pretty great. 

[DoubleJ]

A good point was also brought up to support Slowbro's usage. It shuts "broken" Superpower from Blaziken and Medicham, which terrify the meta without Slowbro. You leave Slowbro at home and you become bait for Superpower, hoping your Gengar doesn't get predict-killed or that your Dusclops can actually do something other than being set-up bait.

Weezing does a nice job at this as well, but is hurt by mixed attackers that commonly run this tactic (Blaziken). 

[Robofiend]

A good point was also brought up to support Slowbro's usage. It shuts "broken" Superpower from Blaziken and Medicham, which terrify the meta without Slowbro. You leave Slowbro at home and you become bait for Superpower, hoping your Gengar doesn't get predict-killed or that your Dusclops can actually do something other than being set-up bait.

Weezing does a nice job at this as well, but is hurt by mixed attackers that commonly run this tactic (Blaziken). 

 

We'll ban them too if needed, that's always been the philosophy here. I personally think Weezing could do fine at taking Choice hits from almost anything but Dragonite. 

 

In response to your previous post: I really don't think Slowbro has too much 4MSS. Slack Off is the best recovery option, Surf/Psy is the best offense, Calm Mind saves it from dying to things like Jolteon, Gengar, Venusaur, who can otherwise 1HKO it. 

 

You're also overstating its weaknesses, sure it's weak to Electric, Dark, Bug and Grass, but on the physical side that means 1 of 3 attacks: Thunderpunch (at best a 3HKO), Crunch (almost always a 2HKO, unless Gyara is using it), or Megahorn (in which case you're running the fuck away from a rampaging Heracross).

 

Honestly it seems like Blissey is the only hard counter for this thing. Blissey is the only thing that can really afford to give up a moveslot for Toxic (besides Umbreon) and without Toxic it really can't do anything to CM+Slack Off Bro either. As stated before, Blissey and Slowbro have great synergy as well, because one blocks Fighting type and the other absorbs Tbolts/Shadow Balls and can fix Slowbro's status problems.

 

Lastly: I know that Slowbro can be beat in a number of ways, but when something has such ridiculously high usage its usually an indicator of a meta problem. If players are essentially forced to have a move on their team that is otherwise useless (Toxic), it's an indicator of a problem.

 

Y'all can vote to keep Slowbro around, but it's just going to mean that in the long run everyone's going to run Bliss/Bro. Is that something you really want?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Robofiend

[DoubleJ]

Bliss/Bro isn't that great of an option as both get shrekt by +1 Thunderpunch, a very common attack. And I don't think we can assume that every team will include Blissey and Slowbro, or that Slowbro should be banned on this premise. 

 

Slowbro is simply a very good wall, although one that can't stay in on many attacks and really just shines because of Locked CB spam. 

 

Also, Taunt Gyarados with Dragon Dance and Crunch really abuses the hell out of this standard Slowbro set. Give it some bulk to guarantee survival against a couple STAB Psychics and voila, your entire team is toast. 

 

I'm not overstating it's weaknesses, I'm just providing evidence that Slowbro can't stay in on many of the common attacks we have. 

[YagamiNoir]

What makes you think Slowbro's the bigger problem over Dragonite? One buff in Slack Off versus the entire physical/special split? I find it hard to see why walls are still under large complaint. Personally this could be a problem, but let's test it in a metagame after Dragonite gets the boot first. As good as it is as a physical wall/Calm Mind sweeper since Slack Off, I speculatively feel that Slowbro was primarily there just because Dragonite was such a dominant force and Slowbro was one of the more reliable checks to it. I say this despite your statement in the OP, because we're not sure what happens after DNite is gone yet.

I suppose in a nutshell, some consensus after the centralizing Dragon is gone would be more decisive.

Edited February 11, 2015 by YagamiNoir

[Robofiend]

Bliss/Bro isn't that great of an option as both get shrekt by +1 Thunderpunch, a very common attack. And I don't think we can assume that every team will include Blissey and Slowbro, or that Slowbro should be banned on this premise. 

 

Most phys attackers 3HKO Bliss/Bro, and their access to instant heal kinda negates the actual harms of taking that hit. Most physical sweepers have to run Choice Band to get the +1 boost so they're locked anyway, meaning that Blissey or Slowbro can take a Tpunch and switch out to something that resists Tpunch for the advantage. Spamming Tpunch isn't enough (on its own) to break Slow/Bliss, assuming perfect defense IVs. Run the calcs, even Medicham 3HKO's Blissey with CB Tpunch - she can just spam softboiled and switch to a counter.

 

I'm not saying 100% of teams will have Blissey+Slowbro, but it's a pretty stronk (and annoying) combo, especially when Slowbro is currently seen on more than half of OU teams.

 

What makes you think Slowbro's the bigger problem over Dragonite? One buff in Slack Off versus the entire physical/special split? I find it hard to see why walls are still under large complaint. Personally this could be a problem, but let's test it in a metagame after Dragonite gets the boot first. As good as it is as a physical wall/Calm Mind sweeper since Slack Off, I speculatively feel that Slowbro was primarily there just because Dragonite was such a dominant force and Slowbro was one of the more reliable checks to it. I say this despite your statement in the OP, because we're not sure what happens after DNite is gone yet.

I suppose in a nutshell, some consensus after the centralizing Dragon is gone would be more decisive.

 

 

I already addressed this line of thinking with my thought experiment, which takes up the latter half of my original post. How do you think that nerfing the most offensive pokemon available is going to make the best defensive pokemon magically worse? Also you're neglecting the fact that a lot of Slowbro don't run Ice Beam out of fear of Gyarados and because:

 

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 144-172 (86.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

Basically 1/5 times you get the OHKO on Dnite and you lose STAB coverage on Gengar/Heracross. 

 

A Dragonite ban could cause a metagame shift that turns the odds against Slowbro, but like I said, I think think Slowbro is inherently good regardless of Dragonite's placement in OU. Dragonite is one of the metagame's hardest hitters and actually hits Slowbro for a lot more damage (with Tbolt esp.) than weaker pokes like Blaziken or Flygon - banning it is just going to reduce the number of pokemon that actually fare decently against the Bro.

 

Final point: Slack Off+CM is a really good combo because nothing in OU usually runs Toxic. Blissey, Swampert or Vaporeon are the only others in the top 20 OU pokes that actually have a reason to run it, and it's questionable on them as well because of how fast the metagame has become. Nothing stays in for 5 turns to accumulate Toxic damage, they're probably going to run after their attack anyway because of the prevelance of CB. And given the popularity of Blissey (usually around 35%), status itself is questionable because the Pink Blob can poof it away on a free turn given to it by a special attacker.

[JonazDK]

I pretty much agree about slowbro is broken, but the OU meta atm is also very broken and way too offensive from what i see (i don't have alot of experience with it yet so i can be wrong) if we banned slowbro the meta would be totally dominated by physical sweepers and much more unhealthy than it already is.

 

EDIT: If we banned slowbro i also think we must ban heracross, dnite, gyarados

Edited February 11, 2015 by JonazDK

[YagamiNoir]

 

Most phys attackers 3HKO Bliss/Bro, and their access to instant heal kinda negates the actual harms of taking that hit. Most physical sweepers have to run Choice Band to get the +1 boost so they're locked anyway, meaning that Blissey or Slowbro can take a Tpunch and switch out to something that resists Tpunch for the advantage. Spamming Tpunch isn't enough (on its own) to break Slow/Bliss, assuming perfect defense IVs. Run the calcs, even Medicham 3HKO's Blissey with CB Tpunch - she can just spam softboiled and switch to a counter.

 

I'm not saying 100% of teams will have Blissey+Slowbro, but it's a pretty stronk (and annoying) combo, especially when Slowbro is currently seen on more than half of OU teams.

 

 

 

I already addressed this line of thinking with my thought experiment, which takes up the latter half of my original post. How do you think that nerfing the most offensive pokemon available is going to make the best defensive pokemon magically worse? Also you're neglecting the fact that a lot of Slowbro don't run Ice Beam out of fear of Gyarados and because:

 

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 144-172 (86.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

Basically 1/5 times you get the OHKO on Dnite and you lose STAB coverage on Gengar/Heracross. 

 

A Dragonite ban could cause a metagame shift that turns the odds against Slowbro, but like I said, I think think Slowbro is inherently good regardless of Dragonite's placement in OU. Dragonite is one of the metagame's hardest hitters and actually hits Slowbro for a lot more damage (with Tbolt esp.) than weaker pokes like Blaziken or Flygon - banning it is just going to reduce the number of pokemon that actually fare decently against the Bro.

 

Final point: Slack Off+CM is a really good combo because nothing in OU usually runs Toxic. Blissey, Swampert or Vaporeon are the only others in the top 20 OU pokes that actually have a reason to run it, and it's questionable on them as well because of how fast the metagame has become. Nothing stays in for 5 turns to accumulate Toxic damage, they're probably going to run after their attack anyway because of the prevelance of CB. And given the popularity of Blissey (usually around 35%), status itself is questionable because the Pink Blob can poof it away on a free turn given to it by a special attacker.

 

My statement does not imply a nerf, but I do think the fact that Dragonite had it's contributions that lead to how grossly overused Slowbro is personally an undeniable one. That said again, the metagame will probably have another shift once Dragonite is gone, with Heracross being one noteworthy thing that's now free to rampage with Megahorn/Reversal with one key threat gone, whereas before it was gone it was kinda unviable due to the Dragon being grossly overused. The placement of a Pokemon, is this case Dragonite, does not affect Slowbro's overall effectiveness and viability, this mindset I had, but in this case, one can't really confirm anything beyond the Dragonite ban for the moment, apart from your fears of the whole Slowbro/Blissey teams in the future, whereas what's happening now is "I AM DNITE, tremble before me" OU. Pardon me if bringing this up is irrelevant in such a thread. "Banning it reduces the number of Pokes that are effective against Slowbro" Banning it shapes the metagame that was entirely centralized around it to shift rather significantly, which is a bigger, albeit unconfirmed change, than what you just said. 

 

Like I said, let Dragonite be gone, let the entirely similar team compositions fade away for the moment,  and when the new usage and meta comes out, we may perhaps have more clarity on the matter. For the moment, the metagame is too ruined but Slowbro is ultimately not the one to blame for this. Your claim of "if we lacked all the powerful stuff", Slowbro would still be good also doesn't evidence anything, considering that a lack of those Pokemon may perhaps contribute to a bigger reason of why it should be banned, and the fact that Slowbro never adequately countered or checked Gengar, Heracross, Gyarados, and debatably even Metagross in the first place. Like what you just told me about Dragonite a while ago. 

 

Whirlwind Snorlax new metagame? (Well, I'm half serious.) Does SubSeed Ludicolo not fare decently against Slowbro as well? At the very least, it'd end up in a enormous stall war, but personally one that is at Ludicolo's favour. I'm also getting your picture on how stupid Slowbro/Blissey teams for the moment, but I'd personally like to see some fresh practical consensus first. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by YagamiNoir

[Robofiend]

Like I said, let Dragonite be gone, let the entirely similar team compositions fade away for the moment,  and when the new usage and meta comes out, we may perhaps have more clarity on the matter. For the moment, the metagame is too ruined but Slowbro is ultimately not the one to blame for this. Your claim of "if we lacked all the powerful stuff", Slowbro would still be good also doesn't evidence anything, considering that a lack of those Pokemon may perhaps contribute to a bigger reason of why it should be banned, and the fact that Slowbro never adequately countered or checked Gengar, Heracross, Gyarados, and debatably even Metagross in the first place. Like what you just told me about Dragonite a while ago. 

 

This is probably the last time I'll reiterate this. This time using logics:

 

Slowbro fails to check/counter X

X is an OU pokemon

 

These premises don't lead to the conclusion that:

Therefore Slowbro is also an OU pokemon and not Uber

 

An example: Tyranitar fails to check Starmie, Breloom, Heracross and a number of other OU pokemon. But that doesn't mean it's OU by definition. It also has checks, but these checks happen to be extremely specific and generally unused except in dealing with Tyranitar. 

 

I'm not saying Slowbro is invincible here, just that it's centralizing and kinda unhealthy for the metagame because of its inherent strengths/weaknesses. Furthermore, my argument against Slowbro DOES use the fact that these pokemon are the strongest available Slowbro killers (on the physical side). If they were banned, only "weaker" pokemon would be available to take their place in the meta, meaning Slowbro would be even better guarded against physical attacks, and thus even more of a Defensively Uber pokemon.

 

Lastly: go make a Dragonite thread if you want to discuss banning Dragonite it's a little off topic here

sike DrNinjaCraig got it

Edited February 11, 2015 by Robofiend

[PandaJJ]

Any argument against a slowbro ban without the word "heracross" in it is pretty much invalid. And clearly, heracross is not enough to let this thing stay. Needs to go with dnite.

Edited February 11, 2015 by PandaJJ

[NikhilR]

Umbreon can do a nice job of mean look+toxic+taunt or whatever but if we have to resort to using that as an option to stop bro, it means we're that desperate to put it down. Toxic has always been bad in the OU meta especially when you have steel types like skarm, fort, metagross and NCs like starmie, blissey and immunity pokemon like Snorlax and ofc Gengar/Venu/Weezing. Wow has always been the better status problem because it helps taking down a lot of hard physical hitters. 

 

Slowbrah needs to go along with dnite. That would be step one towards making this a better meta.

Edited February 11, 2015 by NikhilR

[OrangeManiac]

Kinda on edge with Slowbro, mainly because of Toxic. Toxic is a legitimate argument because it brings it down but it's not like it's the end of the fight for Slowbro, switch out to your cleric and heal the Toxic and Slowbro will come back to wall another day.

Damage wise, I'd say it walls just too much. The main thing to me is that are there enough Pokemon to 2HKO after Slowbro has Calm Minded on the switch.

 

 

252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 116-140 (57.4 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 86-104 (42.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

 

Jolteon works.
 

 

 

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 110-132 (54.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 84-102 (41.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

Gengar already won't beat if low damage roll. And it would have to take a super effective Psychic.

 

 

 

252 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 74-88 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Starmie - nope. Slowbro can CM Wall Starmie.

 

 

 

 

Maybe Gyarados to set up against it?

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 90-108 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Needs to be at +2 to reliably 2HKO it. And it might be too late by then.

 

 

252+ SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 102-122 (50.4 - 60.3%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 78-92 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Lanturn needs good RNG to 2HKO. WITH STAB. TBOLT.
 

 

 

Now let's take into consideration I only calced the main offensive threats against Slowbro. Most of the things don't have anything on Slowbro, not to mention only Jolteon seems like a sure option to against it. The most feared physical sweeper cannot beat it.

 

 

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 78-93 (38.6 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

There is CB Earthquake Stab users but Choice Banded EQ is always a very double-edged sword.

252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-102 (42 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 79-94 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Lol nvm not even 2HKO.
 

 

 

I'd say it's defensive Ubers. Yes, Toxic will destroy it but it doesn't mean Slowbro is down - it just needs to regroup. When your Toxic is down, Slowbro can reliably wall pretty much any Pokemon in the used metagame.
 

PS: Sorry about this dumb font but after calcs I just can't be bothered to change this.



Edit: I know there's Curselax but just after some CMs Slowbro can deal quite massive damage while Snorlax needs some turns do actually beat Slowbruh.

+3 0 Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 112-132 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+4 0 SpA Slowbro Surf vs. 188 HP / 216+ SpD Snorlax: 112-133 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Edited February 11, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[OldKeith]

Excellent post, Orange.

 

It proves how easily Slowbro come in, and if you catch the opponent off guard with a CM before the supposed Jolteon comes in, then no special attacker will beat it. Toxic Blissey is probably the only true counter to this Slowbro, otherwise you need gimmicks like haze or encore to beat it.

 

Same problem is with Snorlax: we have a wall that can set up and sweep. But he should be discussed in a thread of its own.

[Gunthug]

Hmm..what about sub-seeders like Ludi, Sceptile, and Venu? If these start being run more just to beat slowbro, though, then I'd say it's too centralizing. Something to think about

[SneaKyKhaLidA]

Even to try toxic slowbro.. if somebody has a Heal bell or aromatherapy poke + slowbro on the same team you're semi screwed.

Edited February 11, 2015 by SneaKyKhaLidA