SpartacusGD Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yea kinda, except chancey CAN be beat by spcl atkers depending on moveset. Doesnt have toxic then growth jolt, i think, can set up on it I know it can if you predict the siesmics right. Slowbro can set up on twave bliss, And espy can str8 up kill if it gets enough of a chance too. But yea it is a pretty safe switch. Sub gengar shits all over it. Plz gengars a scrub. Demn cody to think that growth jolt gonna beat chansey? And gengar is a scrub is prolly the craziest thing ive heard lately Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Demn cody to think that growth jolt gonna beat chansey? And gengar is a scrub is prolly the craziest thing ive heard lately Jolteon is not going to beat Chansey afaik, unless it has Wish/Growth, which would be.. pretty weird Link to comment
codylramey Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) If it has twave instead of toxic jolt can wish growth every other turn. Jolteon is not going to beat Chansey afaik, unless it has Wish/Growth, which would be.. pretty weird Saw it in verm, idt this so weird almost rekt me Edited July 30, 2015 by codylramey Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Gardevoir might not be as strong as, let's say, gengar, but it's one of the most reliable counters to starmie and jolteon. Ofc pory can do the same. Link to comment
SpartacusGD Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yea kinda, except chancey CAN be beat by spcl atkers depending on moveset. Doesnt have toxic then growth jolt, i think, can set up on it I know it can if you predict the siesmics right. Slowbro can set up on twave bliss, And espy can str8 up kill if it gets enough of a chance too. But yea it is a pretty safe switch. Sub gengar shits all over it. Plz gengars a scrub. How is this even different from blissey? Can blissey even beat this wish growth jolt without twave, slowbro can also setup cms vs twave bliss. So its all about the moveset. Except fpr gengar, chansey pretty much same as blissey in ou lol. Toss, aroma, twave, softboiled. Lets give it a try vs wish growth jolt. Either against chansey or blissey ita same, all about pp Robofiend 1 Link to comment
codylramey Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 How is this even different from blissey? Can blissey even beat this wish growth jolt without twave, slowbro can also setup cms vs twave bliss. So its all about the moveset. Except fpr gengar, chansey pretty much same as blissey in ou lol. Toss, aroma, twave, softboiled. Lets give it a try vs wish growth jolt. Either against chansey or blissey ita same, all about pp actually seeing as how bliss commonly carried 1 or in some cases even 2 spcl moves over seismic and toxic AND toxic wasnt as necessary of a move on bliss as it is chansey (she does shit for damage so toxic patches that up a lil bit) i would say jolt has an easier time setting up on bliss than chansey. But you do need 1 more CM to kill which isnt a problem unless hax. I think it was the fear of snolax that kept growth jolt from being a thing b4. Ofc now we have pory and gard that shits all over jolt now soo its not like hes OP. One thing to keep in mind also when comparing bliss and chansey is that chansey is easier to wear down by non set up spcl sweepers. The only ones i saw was running wish protect bc it doesnt have much other options so even healing is more limiting on her a lot of the time. Ofc it still has the option of softboiil and im sure there are ppl who run it. And needing to protect for healing can lead to a set up if you arent careful. Link to comment
SpartacusGD Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) actually seeing as how bliss commonly carried 1 or in some cases even 2 spcl moves over seismic and toxic AND toxic wasnt as necessary of a move on bliss as it is chansey (she does shit for damage so toxic patches that up a lil bit) i would say jolt has an easier time setting up on bliss than chansey. But you do need 1 more CM to kill which isnt a problem unless hax. I think it was the fear of snolax that kept growth jolt from being a thing b4. Ofc now we have pory and gard that shits all over jolt now soo its not like hes OP. One thing to keep in mind also when comparing bliss and chansey is that chansey is easier to wear down by non set up spcl sweepers. The only ones i saw was running wish protect bc it doesnt have much other options so even healing is more limiting on her a lot of the time. Ofc it still has the option of softboiil and im sure there are ppl who run it. And needing to protect for healing can lead to a set up if you arent careful. So in conclusion, only lax ban affected growth jolt's viability and but if you gonna ask me or any common sense im 100% positive jolt will have a harder time beating p2 than snorlax. Tbolt spam hit and run can wear down lax and when its about to sleep use growth go for +2 and lax will lose, while p2 has recover and 90% of the time inmune to tbolt. As for your blissey statement 2 special attack blissey will lose even more to growth jolt so it doesnt matter if its a chansey or a blissey, only thing that matters is if it has toxic or not. Edit: forgot 1 thing, chansey can be weared down by non setup sp atkers? You and i both know that isnt true brah, only sp wall that can actually be worn down by non setup sp atkers is snorlax cos it needs to sleep, except for gengar ofc but that isnt really valid cos gengar beats sp all the sp walls if they get poisoned by bomb Edited July 31, 2015 by SpartacusGD Link to comment
codylramey Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 So in conclusion, only lax ban affected growth jolt's viability and but if you gonna ask me or any common sense im 100% positive jolt will have a harder time beating p2 than snorlax. Tbolt spam hit and run can wear down lax and when its about to sleep use growth go for +2 and lax will lose, while p2 has recover and 90% of the time inmune to tbolt. As for your blissey statement 2 special attack blissey will lose even more to growth jolt so it doesnt matter if its a chansey or a blissey, only thing that matters is if it has toxic or not. Edit: forgot 1 thing, chansey can be weared down by non setup sp atkers? You and i both know that isnt true brah, only sp wall that can actually be worn down by non setup sp atkers is snorlax cos it needs to sleep, except for gengar ofc but that isnt really valid cos gengar beats sp all the sp walls if they get poisoned by bomb Chansey takes one less hit than blissey does. As a matter of the fact snorlax takes just as much abuse as chansey does. Yes chansey can insta heal any damage done to her by a spcl atker but there is usally a cost to doing so. DrCraig 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Without Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, Chansey's pretty much forced to either PP/Toxic stall or spam ST - which is a big loss of offensive capability. Arimanius 1 Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Without Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, Chansey's pretty much forced to either PP/Toxic stall or spam ST - which is a big loss of offensive capability. shadow ball/psychic can hit gengar for enough damage to prevent it from sub stalling. Twave+psychic means chansey is a pretty decent answer to gengar. Vaeldras, Robofiend and Arimanius 3 Link to comment
codylramey Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Soo cnansey, i think it prolly deserves a B. The most solid spcl wall we have but is extremely limited offensivly. Can support but thats about all it does. Siesmic and toxic are its only means of dealing damage and the only way it can even do any damage to gengar is if it has a move that is there only to deal with gar. Although twave does cripple non sub variants. Edited July 31, 2015 by codylramey Robofiend 1 Link to comment
codylramey Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Im surprised kingdra hasnt been discussed yet. Ive been thinking about it and it seems like theres not really anything that can consistently come in on and stop a kingra well. Cloyster slowbro and vap are all 3hkod by +1 outrage (i calced 90 BP), waterfall can kill steels, nothing really can take a hit by a +1 kingdra and 1hko it bak like with gyaradose, its bulky enough to come in on many threats and even has 2 4x resistances, and status doesnt really effect it with the option to run sub or resto chesto. Am i missing something or is this thing a really scary threat that may even be S ranked? Edited September 2, 2015 by codylramey Link to comment
gbwead Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Cloyster slowbro and vap are all 3hkod by +1 outrage (i calced 90 BP) Is this supposed to be good? Kingdra does outrage, you switch on metagross, you kill kingdra, your opponent cries. Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Is this supposed to be good? Kingdra does outrage, you switch on metagross, you kill kingdra, your opponent cries. well metagross only 3hkos kingdra with earthquake or a 4hko with thunderpunch, so its not like kingdra is just unviable by metagross existing. And its fairly rare for kingdra to need to outrage, especially with return existing and it being able to set up on ludicolo/venusaur decently Robofiend 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Kingdra's actually pretty interesting. My general feeling is that it struggles to set up and stay healthy long enough to sweep. Weezing can wisp it into submission (unless Sub) and Gyarados + anything with Toxic/Leech can kinda just stunt on it while it tries to set up. It can work but I'd say it's not quite an A-rank. Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Kingdra's actually pretty interesting. My general feeling is that it struggles to set up and stay healthy long enough to sweep. Weezing can wisp it into submission (unless Sub) and Gyarados + anything with Toxic/Leech can kinda just stunt on it while it tries to set up. It can work but I'd say it's not quite an A-rank. Well kingdra can also focus energy+scope lens to bypass the burn, since it gains a 100% crit rate, and it can beat anything that tries to defense boost up vs it. Link to comment
Robofiend Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well kingdra can also focus energy+scope lens to bypass the burn, since it gains a 100% crit rate, and it can beat anything that tries to defense boost up vs it. Yeah but.. You're spending a turn to DD, a turn to Focus Energy and a turn to attack? And does crit actually bypass status in this Gen? I was under the impression that doesn't happen in later Gens but who knows about Pokemmo. Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Yeah but.. You're spending a turn to DD, a turn to Focus Energy and a turn to attack? And does crit actually bypass status in this Gen? I was under the impression that doesn't happen in later Gens but who knows about Pokemmo. It does bypass the burn drop. Focus energy is basically +1 attack with scope lens, and ignoring def boosts/burns, so basically the same as dragon dancing a second time (which kingdra can usually do anyways) besides the speed. It would probably be more for breaking stall teams that rely on weezing to burn kingdra and where the speed drop is less noticable, assuming you can't set up for 3 turns vs an offensive team. Link to comment
Robofiend Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Yeah, alternatively Kingdra can just set up on non-Haze Weezing and then Restochest. I think Sub is a more interesting option on Kingra, tho, because of how good Paralysis is for stopping a DD sweep. If you're boosting with Focus+DD and losing lefties/chesto for scope lens, you're not going to have the awesome staying power that makes Kingdra attactive over something like Gyarados. Edited September 4, 2015 by Robofiend Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Crit bypassing Burn's atk drop is actually a bug though but yes, it is a thing in MMO. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Critical_hit When a move lands a critical hit, the attacker's negative stat stages will be ignored while the defender's positive stat stages will be ignored, as well as the boosts from Light Screen and Reflect. Other stat modifiers, such as burn, Eviolite, Defeatist, the Sp. Defense boost that Rock types get under Sandstorm from Generation IV onwards, or Slow Start will not be ignored. Robofiend 1 Link to comment
Robofiend Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Crit bypassing Burn's atk drop is actually a bug though but yes, it is a thing in MMO. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Critical_hit Ty for info. Anyway, the good player burns, anticipates the Waterfall and the Pain Splits. It might not live in the long run, but Kingdra won't be healthy to sweep afterward, which kind of negates the reason you use Kingdra in the first place. Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Ty for info. Anyway, the good player burns, anticipates the Waterfall and the Pain Splits. It might not live in the long run, but Kingdra won't be healthy to sweep afterward, which kind of negates the reason you use Kingdra in the first place. +1 252+ Atk Kingdra Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing on a critical hit: 87-103 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery not to mention that 30% chance to flinch also gets the 2hko on max def ludicolo +1 252+ Atk Kingdra Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ludicolo on a critical hit: 104-123 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and if the bug gets fixed about the burns +1 252+ Atk Kingdra Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing on a critical hit: 102-120 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery is an option, although facade is pretty weak if not boosted by status Link to comment
codylramey Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I was thinking of running haze icebeam vap to take it, is that too specific? Link to comment
gbwead Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) not to mention that 30% chance to flinch Quick nitpick question: Is waterfall flinch chance 30% or 20%? I have heard a lot of people on pokemmo say it's 30%, but when I look at smogon or bulbapedia it says 20%. Bulbapedia: "Waterfall now has a 20% chance of causing the target to flinch." Smogon: "20% chance of causing the target to flinch." Edited September 5, 2015 by lamerb Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Quick nitpick question: Is waterfall flinch chance 30% or 20%? I have heard a lot of people on pokemmo say it's 30%, but when I look at smogon or bulbapedia it says 20%. Bulbapedia: "Waterfall now has a 20% chance of causing the target to flinch." Smogon: "20% chance of causing the target to flinch." Oh it might be 20%, just assumed it was 30% because of rock slide gbwead 1 Link to comment
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