OU Viability Thread

[Robofiend]

1 usage

2 rapid spin

 

I personally find forretress to be a lot more versatile: it can spin, it can heal with pain split predicting a switch, it can use screens, it can surprise magneton with quake...

 

But the quake damage is real. CB Swampert and CB Flygon are more of an issue when you use Forretress. Suddenly it becomes an issue to choose between taking a hard hit with Forretress or mispredicting and letting a Flying pokemon take a Painful STAB Dragon Claw or Waterfall (or Tpunch or Rock Slide or what have you).

 

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 117-138 (33.1 - 39%) -- 8.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 232-276 (65.7 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 136-162 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

I'm not saying Forretress is bad, it's just not on the same level as Skarmory when it comes to things like Heracross, Aerodactyl and Haunter, all of whom are unharmed by Forre.

[NikhilR]

I'm not saying Forretress is bad, it's just not on the same level as Skarmory when it comes to things like Heracross, Aerodactyl and Haunter, all of whom are unharmed by Forre.

 

Dat surprise counter can wreck Hera+Aero. Fort can't touch haunter though. It suffers from 4MSS where Spikes+Spin takes 2 slots, and the remaining 2 slots are decided between Toxic, EQ, Counter, Screens, or Pain Split. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by NikhilR

[Vaeldras]

But the quake damage is real. CB Swampert and CB Flygon are more of an issue when you use Forretress. Suddenly it becomes an issue to choose between taking a hard hit with Forretress or mispredicting and letting a Flying pokemon take a Painful STAB Dragon Claw or Waterfall (or Tpunch or Rock Slide or what have you).

 

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 117-138 (33.1 - 39%) -- 8.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 232-276 (65.7 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 136-162 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

I'm not saying Forretress is bad, it's just not on the same level as Skarmory when it comes to things like Heracross, Aerodactyl and Haunter, all of whom are unharmed by Forre.

 

both skarm and forretress are 3hko'd by pert with wfall anyway, so what's the deal besides flygon?

The way i see it both skarm and forretress are tot not worth running if what you need is a ph wall, they lack a good recovery move.

Slowbro, arcanine and venusaur can recover quite easily instead and that makes taking them out quite difficult if your opponent has a good core.

The only reason why i like forretress is rapid spin, if it didn't have that i would have ditched it for an extra wallbreaker or a different spinner.

 

Edit: I'll run some calcs on waterfall vs skarm cause i never did before, i just 3hko'd one during a battle

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 58-69 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- 31.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+ flinches

 

edit 2: Also yeah, low kick hera totally shits on forretress, same for any machamp.

+ yeah, firepunch never was a big problem to skarm, so i can see it being a better wall for that.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Vaeldras

[DrCraig]

He's basically getting at that Skarm has better typing which makes it more solid then Forretress as a wall. There's a lot more that can attack Forretress in its face and take an EQ then can attack Skarm and take DP/get phazed. It's just a typing thing. In the end they both have a shitty offensive presence and it boils down to if youd rather run a spinner with skarmory or another physical/wall tank to synergize with Forrefat. They should be the same viability ranking in my opinion right now, whatever that may be.

[Vaeldras]

As i said they lack a good recovery move, but they're also both trapped by magneton and that makes defensive cores based on these two pretty unreliable.

Skarmory would be an a- if it didn't have all those good utility moves, so i'd say i can give it an A rank.

Forretress can't take any fire move whatsoever and even pokes such as aerodactyl and tauros can take advantage of that, not to mention firepunch users.

Awesome against normal spam, a solid switch in against gyarados or metagross, but it's not as reliable as skarm.

However is the most used rapid spin user in the tier, it has a decent enough attack to hit back at some threats and a wide set of moves to help it at that .

More support oriented than skarmory, not a defensive a rank, but an A rank overall.

[Robofiend]

Yeah Skarm/Forre both A rank for reasons listed above - both have weaknesses, both provide utility to their team (Taunt Skarm OP) and both are relatively common in OU.

[BurntZebra]

Yeah Skarm/Forre both A rank for reasons listed above - both have weaknesses, both provide utility to their team (Taunt Skarm OP) and both are relatively common in OU.

I haven't seen anyone run taunt skarm in a pretty long time. It still gets outstalled by forretress due to the 40 rapid spin pp. Skarmory is already pretty tied down on what moves it needs to run. Spikes is the obvious move, whirlwind for phazing dangerous things, drill peck for damaging dangerous things, counter for damaging physical attackers that aren't threatened by drill peck much like aerodactyl or flygon, or rest to not be screwed by status. Taunt can help in some scenarios, but pokemon you're taunting usually aren't that threatening to skarmory anyways like chansey or dusclops. 

[DrCraig]

I haven't seen anyone run taunt skarm in a pretty long time. It still gets outstalled by forretress due to the 40 rapid spin pp. Skarmory is already pretty tied down on what moves it needs to run. Spikes is the obvious move, whirlwind for phazing dangerous things, drill peck for damaging dangerous things, counter for damaging physical attackers that aren't threatened by drill peck much like aerodactyl or flygon, or rest to not be screwed by status. Taunt can help in some scenarios, but pokemon you're taunting usually aren't that threatening to skarmory anyways like chansey or dusclops. 

Still A

[BurntZebra]

Still A

I'm just saying that robo doesn't know anything about the pokemmo meta

[Robofiend]

I'm just saying that robo doesn't know anything about the pokemmo meta

 

Taunt Skarm is cool even if no one uses it in this gen

[bigbangattack]

As i said they lack a good recovery move, but they're also both trapped by magneton

Not skarmory....chest resto blind fire whirl wind to scout magneton

[eggroll]

man ya'll fudged the meta up, i vote for a reset

[Vaeldras]

lol someone rank these

 

Gardevoir

Cloyster

Dusclops

Blaziken

[Vaeldras]

Rhydon B+

 

you sub on chansey/umbreon/dusclops/nonspattinvestedpory2withonlytriattack+tbolt  and beat the living shit out of anything that isn't a steel type or vaporeon

 

252+ Atk Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 102-122 (50.4 - 60.3%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

-1 252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 104-126 (52.7 - 63.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cloyster: 66-80 (42 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (flinchino?)

 

 

 

I'm expecting magneton to become one of the most relevant pokes too with everyone and their mothers running dusclops + forretress.

Curious to see how medicham and ursaring will do too.

[codylramey]

with everyone and their mothers running dusclops + forretress.
 

What how long have ppl been running this? I just put together a clopse and cloy team, thought i was being original ;-;

[Vaeldras]

What how long have ppl been running this? I just put together a clopse and cloy team, thought i was being original ;-;

 

Quite a while, i've seen it on 3-4 different people just today

[codylramey]

Quite a while, i've seen it on 3-4 different people just today

ugh back to the drawing board. Is it easier to use unique shit in other tiers?

[Vaeldras]

ugh back to the drawing board. Is it easier to use unique shit in other tiers?

 

I barely play ou 

[bl0nde]

I have been seeing a lot of bulky choice banders.

-Metagross

-Heracross

-Slaking

-Rhydon

-Ursaring

-Saw a mixed blaziken also (not mine)

 

edit: bulky knock off venusaur receiving a lot of hate for knocking off items and bands right ater they get more viable. Sneaking in knock off in a set somewhere can be a great defensive aide in times of bands. ^_^ cheers

Edited December 23, 2015 by bl0nde

[codylramey]

I use a mix blaze, at one point i tried to put together a choice rhydon. I think he would be pretty beastly considering the popularity of chansey, he also doesnt care about twave or toxic bc hes immune and a hit n run poke

[RysPicz]

Rhydon finally sees some usage. I've seen it myself in a dumb verm1. And it's really fuking good.

 

God bless dugtrio ban. With so many powerful physical breakers, imo, Chansey can stay.

[codylramey]

Hes awesome im sure, i just need to rebreeb mine.

[Vaeldras]

I use a mix blaze, at one point i tried to put together a choice rhydon. I think he would be pretty beastly considering the popularity of chansey, he also doesnt care about twave or toxic bc hes immune and a hit n run poke

 

and that's why you run sub rhydon to abuse 51hp subs

[codylramey]

and that's why you run sub rhydon to abuse 51hp subs

sub rhydon hates toxic tho

[Vaeldras]

sub rhydon hates toxic tho

 

give it a lum or predict dunno

I had no problems with toxic, although i've been very careful with it