Thrash base power

[Spaintakula]

Kinda missed out, seeing as it's not really a move anyone would really notice, but can we get a boost on Thrash like it is in later gens? Right now it's 90, gets boosted to 120 like it should be. Would figure the reason it didn't get updated until now is because no one has mentioned it, and I don't see it being harmful to the metagame lol.

[BigShotJoe]

Well, I don't see it affecting OU much, but you have to think about the lower tiers. Some Pokemon (mainly thinking about Kangaskhan here) would be pretty OP with a move like that. 

On another note, buffing Thrash would lead to people wanting things like Outrage and Petal Dance buffed, too. Outrage in particular would be OP as hell with 120 power. You could argue that Outrage can stay how it is now, that wouldn't stop people from asking about it again and again.

Thrash itself does not seem to be a big problem, but the things it would inevitably lead to will be.

[Kurodashi]

I think the reason it wouldn't be op is cause it is predictable same goes for outrage and Petal Dance.

Once you use it you are stuck with that move for atleast 1 or 2 rounds pretty easy switch in I see no preblem with buffing it.

 

And nobody mentioned confusion yet.

[Spaintakula]

Well, I don't see it affecting OU much, but you have to think about the lower tiers. Some Pokemon (mainly thinking about Kangaskhan here) would be pretty OP with a move like that. 

On another note, buffing Thrash would lead to people wanting things like Outrage and Petal Dance buffed, too. Outrage in particular would be OP as hell with 120 power. You could argue that Outrage can stay how it is now, that wouldn't stop people from asking about it again and again.

Thrash itself does not seem to be a big problem, but the things it would inevitably lead to will be.

I mean, not like kanga already gets Double-edge which is the same power. People run Dedge kanga. On another note, Kanga can't even learn Thrash in the first place.

As far as I know, it was already decided Outrage won't get the boost to 120 because it'd be too much to handle, so it wouldn't lead to anything unless the metagame changes to a point where Outrage would be considered not OP to use. Don't see a problem in lower tiers either seeing how most pokemon that get Thrash already learn Return, which when you compare, are kinda the same thing once you include confusion after the 2 turns.

[BigShotJoe]

I mean, not like kanga already gets Double-edge which is the same power. People run Dedge kanga. On another note, Kanga can't even learn Thrash in the first place.

As far as I know, it was already decided Outrage won't get the boost to 120 because it'd be too much to handle, so it wouldn't lead to anything unless the metagame changes to a point where Outrage would be considered not OP to use. Don't see a problem in lower tiers either seeing how most pokemon that get Thrash already learn Return, which when you compare, are kinda the same thing once you include confusion after the 2 turns.

Well, I don't play the lower tiers so what I said was just outsider speculation. I really thought Kangaskhan learned Thrash. Maybe that was Ursaring. As for Return vs. Thrash, Return has 102 power whereas Thrash would have 120. Thrash comes with that annoying confusion, but is easily remedied with a berry or swapping out. Also, Double-Edge hurts the user after every use and can, in desperate situations, be exploited by your opponent. Not as easily fixed and more exploitable than Thrash. 
However, Thrash's largest flaw is the fact that it locks you into a single move for 2-3 turns. Normally, this would be a huge detriment. However, there are only four Pokemon in UU that resist normal attacks - only one of which can use the opportunity to it's advantage.

Edited March 3, 2016 by BigShotJoe

[aftershocker]

Let's not forget that you can't switch out when locked into thrash, it's honestly punishable and doesn't seem that harmful to the meta. 

[Champlooo]

Well, I don't play the lower tiers so what I said was just outsider speculation. I really thought Kangaskhan learned Thrash. Maybe that was Ursaring. As for Return vs. Thrash, Return has 102 power whereas Thrash would have 120. Thrash comes with that annoying confusion, but is easily remedied with a berry or swapping out. Also, Double-Edge hurts the user after every use and can, in desperate situations, be exploited by your opponent. Not as easily fixed and more exploitable than Thrash. 

 

how are you forgetting the major problem with thrash? You're locked into the move for at least 2 turns. And isn't it like outrage, where you can't switch until the confusion hits?

[BigShotJoe]

Let's not forget that you can't switch out when locked into thrash, it's honestly punishable and doesn't seem that harmful to the meta. 

 

how are you forgetting the major problem with thrash? You're locked into the move for at least 2 turns. And isn't it like outrage, where you can't switch until the confusion hits?

I meant to mention that. It's fixed now.

[Champlooo]

However, Thrash's largest flaw is the fact that it locks you into a single move for 2-3 turns. Normally, this would be a huge detriment. However, there are only four Pokemon in UU that resist normal attacks - only one of which can use the opportunity to it's advantage.

 

You don't have to resist something to wall it. Chansey walls elemental spdef attacks for days. And that flaw is what makes DE/Return better. They do a bunch of damage but don't lock you in.

 

Also why are you specifying UU, Spaint already told you Kanga can't learn it.

[BigShotJoe]

You don't have to resist something to wall it. Chansey walls elemental spdef attacks for days. And that flaw is what makes DE/Return better. They do a bunch of damage but don't lock you in.

 

Also why are you specifying UU, Spaint already told you Kanga can't learn it.

There are no walls such as Chansey in the lower tiers. Hell, even Weezing can't wall neutral physical hits the way Chansey does neutral special hits. I keep referring to the lower tiers because there's literally two Pokemon in OU that can make effective use of Thrash which are Ursaring and Tauros. Ursaring is a Guts Pokemon so Facade is far better and Tauros is almost always used with a Choice Band. Thrash would be a terrible idea on either of them. 

At any rate, I have no interest in the move so my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot in the first place.

[Kurodashi]

I think Steelix and Aggron (and prolly a few more) don't care about Thrash.

I just don't see who in lower tiers can effectively use Thrash.

Unless there's something I don't see at the moment I think even buffed Thrash is mediocre at best.

[OrangeManiac]

The problem is that buffing Thrash but not buffing similar moves like Outrage and Petal Dance wouldn't really make sense since they are the same move in different types. Would be too customized to have Thrash as the only 120 BP locked move.

[Arimanius]

The problem is that buffing Thrash but not buffing similar moves like Outrage and Petal Dance wouldn't really make sense since they are the same move in different types. Would be too customized to have Thrash as the only 120 BP locked move.

Well orange bro I don't mind this suggestion that much but if u see rock blast, icecle spear, bullet seed hit like gen6 but pin missile is shit (also fury cutter) and they're like the same type of move so that doesn't mean anything in my eyes. I really don't see cons or pros of doing this, I think is something up to the devs

[BurntZebra]

Well orange bro I don't mind this suggestion that much but if u see rock blast, icecle spear, bullet seed hit like gen6 but pin missile is shit (also fury cutter) and they're like the same type of move so that doesn't mean anything in my eyes. I really don't see cons or pros of doing this, I think is something up to the devs

Pretty sure that's just devs being lazy. I think someone suggested that pin missile is buffed after the others were and someone (potentially darkshade) said it was overlooked by accident. 

[Kizhaz]

I don't see a problem with the 3 moves being buffed. cb Flygon will be very powerful with a stab 120 move to spam but it's not like we dont already have answers for dragon abuse. Dodrio is really the only pokemon that takes Thrash over double-edge only because the ability Tangled Feet but he doesn't have that here sooo. Dragonair might see some usage in NU if Outrage was buffed too. I'm not too sure what uses Petal Dance and would be threatening, Venusaur?

[Arimanius]

Pretty sure that's just devs being lazy. I think someone suggested that pin missile is buffed after the others were and someone (potentially darkshade) said it was overlooked by accident. 

I understand that, what I meant is like orange said thrash couldn't be buffed without buffing outrage and stuff being the same "type" of attacks and I gave an example of why that wasn't necessarily true

[fredrichnietze]

outrage wouldnt be a problem with so many banned dragons. thrash might cause some trouble in the storyline side as it makes it easy with 120bp stab on things like grandbull 1hko'ing everything. petal dance is somewhat useless still.

[OldKeith]

outrage wouldnt be a problem with so many banned dragons. thrash might cause some trouble in the storyline side as it makes it easy with 120bp stab on things like grandbull 1hko'ing everything. petal dance is somewhat useless still.

 

Kingdra anf Flygon would be flying straight to ubers. We don't have steel types with instant recovery and there is no safe switch into a cb Flygon with 120 Outrage and Earthquake.

[fredrichnietze]

So how does skarmory recover exactly? Rest? :]

252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 40-48 (23.2 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Flygon Earthquake vs. Skarmory: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time

 

your point? oh right implying no wall can be good without insta recovery

 

[SirYurop]

Well kangha is just 1 turn sleep