I Looked Into The Whole Shiny Thing [Message To The Devs]

[Raederz]

4 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

plenty a use, but i always sound like that. it's cause im a uguu.

First time I see someone having a superior attitude towards himself

[frogbussoms]

On 7/11/2016 at 8:46 AM, Kite said:

I know WHY they did, I seen it be explained at around 2013. But the problems it been causing isn't worth that kind of effort.

What effort, which problems, and why did they do what now.

Explain everything for me, I want to learn sempai.

[Kite]

8 hours ago, frogbussoms said:

What effort, which problems, and why did they do what now.

Explain everything for me, I want to learn sempai.

Troll confirmed.

[frogbussoms]

16 hours ago, Kite said:

Troll confirmed.

You have no idea how frustrated I am to not have my explanation.

 

I don't know how else to ask again, please explain. All I know is your talking about the shiny rate thing, but WHAT EFFORT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

[Kite]

4 minutes ago, frogbussoms said:

You have no idea how frustrated I am to not have my explanation.

 

I don't know how else to ask again, please explain. All I know is your talking about the shiny rate thing, but WHAT EFFORT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Oh I'm sorry Mr. Troll, but too bad. 

[frogbussoms]

2 minutes ago, Kite said:

Oh I'm sorry Mr. Troll, but too bad. 

Not even trolling, if you're going to say that they are doing something wrong at least explain it to people if they ask you what your even talking about.

[Kite]

23 hours ago, frogbussoms said:

Not even trolling, if you're going to say that they are doing something wrong at least explain it to people if they ask you what your even talking about.

Nah, you're a troll so it's pointless to explain it to you.

[Darkshade]

1 hour ago, Kite said:

Nah, you're a troll so it's pointless to explain it to you.

Well I'm definitely not a troll and I also would love to hear the basis for your claims.

[Bishav]

On 11/07/2016 at 3:56 PM, Exeggutor said:

Pokemon

Go #TeamRedRepresent

On 11/07/2016 at 11:55 PM, Raederz said:

*Misquote that I can't remove on phone*

5 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Well I'm definitely not a troll and I also would love to hear the basis for your claims.

Same here.

 

There are far too many things that happened in 2013 that concerned shiny rate. From the rumoured 1/32K claim by an ex staff member to moegar(?? )making a bot to actually test the shiny rate and a shitload of other claims in threads that were shut down by our staff members with-"the shiny rate is 1/8192 as stated in the FAQ"  

Fun times.

 

Make the theory interesting pls.

[DaftCoolio]

elaborate troll confirmed 

[frogbussoms]

All I can say is I have probably 10,000 encounters, of which 7,000 are have been counted within the last 50 game hours on my account (the other 275 hours i'm going to assume i only did 3,000 encounters ) without a shiny.

 

I'm assuming the rate is around 15,000 in pokemmo.

 

(this is a personal opinion please don't get mad about it)

Edited July 15, 2016 by frogbussoms

[Raederz]

21 minutes ago, frogbussoms said:

All I can say is I have probably 10,000 encounters, of which 7,000 are have been counted within the last 50 game hours on my account (the other 275 hours i'm going to assume i only did 3,000 encounters ) without a shiny.

 

I'm assuming the rate is around 15,000 in pokemmo.

 

(this is a personal opinion please don't get mad about it)

Can you "assume" things watching only one player experience ?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Raederz

[Matoka]

This thread to me seems like based on the last few pages:

 

B-BUT MUH ARGUEMENT.

>What is the basis for your argument?

OMAHGERD YOU TROLLS!!!111! IT'S POINTLESS TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO YOU

 

                                      

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Matoka

[frogbussoms]

Hmmm I didn't assume anyone would believe what I have to say but I believe it.

 

I have talked to a lot of mature and respected players who have no need to lie about their info. It seems more than likely the rates are above 10,000.

 

The dev's admitted changing the rate system because they felt 1/8,000 is too common. They don't want the game flooding with shinies... Common sense would only point to the rate being above 8,000.... Rates would be ranging from 1/10,000 & higher...

 

15,000 just seems like a safe area to assume for an average between the BEST rate your account can be granted and the Worst... I assume being 10,000-15,000(donator) 15,000-20,000(non donator)...

 

This is my personal judgement and any responses will not really even effect my opinion.

 

It's just a theory.

Edited July 15, 2016 by frogbussoms

[Raederz]

6 minutes ago, frogbussoms said:

It's just speculation lol.

ye right

[Perry]

13 minutes ago, frogbussoms said:

Hmmm I didn't assume anyone would believe what I have to say but I believe it.

 

I have talked to a lot of mature and respected players who have no need to lie about their info. It seems more than likely the rates are above 10,000.

 

The dev's admitted changing the rate system because they felt 1/8,000 is too common. They don't want the game flooding with shinies... Common sense would only point to the rate being above 8,000.... Rates would be ranging from 1/10,000 & higher...

 

15,000 just seems like a safe area to assume for an average between the BEST rate your account can be granted and the Worst... I assume being 10,000-15,000(donator) 15,000-20,000(non donator)...

 

This is my personal judgement and any responses will not really even effect my opinion.

 

It's just a theory.

Please keep the shiny rate discussion here, in a single thread.

[Matoka]

People are ultimately going to believe what they want to be believe based on what they see through the lense commonly referred to as "Observational Bias".

 

Devs aren't ever going to give us specific numbers most likely because they will never need to, they clearly have enough info on what is happening as shown by examples they have given us before that show that they do have ways of recording how shiny pokemon occur and who gets them, so any issues with the system are obviously going to be noticable if they actually spend a second to look at the data and they've had plenty of time.

 

Having RNG is both Fair and "unfair", because everyone has the same chance it is "Fair" however it is also "Unfair" because some people get more lucky than others and there isn't compensation for this but there shouldn't be because it'll fudge with the economics of Shiny value.

 

I fail to see what is being gained from this thread anymore, it seems to just be people making assumptions based on what little info they have access to them as a player, which will obviously never be as accurate as the info the devs can get with all the data they record.

and the shiny rate is also obviously rarer than in the handhelds and by a large degree but working it out is very difficult and even if it is worked out what good does that do us other than encourage people who go past that number to start complaining "I DID OVER 30,000 ENCOUNTERS BUT NO SHINY?! THATS SO UNFAIR."

 

Any discussion relating to shiny rate has always been kinda silly apart from a select few that actually tried to get large sample sizes for estimations, its kinda tiring to still see threads like this be as prevalent as they are.

[Raederz]

47 minutes ago, frogbussoms said:

15,000 just seems like a safe area to assume for an average between the BEST rate your account can be granted and the Worst... I assume being 10,000-15,000(donator) 15,000-20,000(non donator)...

This 10% is sooo high

[Kite]

4 hours ago, Darkshade said:

Well I'm definitely not a troll and I also would love to hear the basis for your claims.

I know you're not a troll LOL. 

 

Ok first look at every shiny thread ever that questioned the shiny rate and all the drama it caused. I'm sure you seen way too many threads about the shiny rate not being the same as it is in the handhelds. Probably more than I seen, I remember this 1 particular thread (and some threads that spawned from that) where some Mod or GM (can't remember exactly or it was an Ex GM/Mod) told some player that the shiny rate was 1/32000 back around 2014 I think? (I am really bad with time) which caused a lot of controversy about the shiny rate where the GMs/Mods responded that the rate was still 1/8192. Whether it was true about what the GMs/Mods said about it still being that doesn't matter to me. Which a lot of those threads were deleted (for obvious reasons) otherwise I would link quite a few (either that or I can't use the search function properly if so RIP). Then looking at this thread for example of talking about "cursed accounts" or "new players have a higher chance at finding a shiny pokemon" which was talked about in-game a bit further back than this thread's creation date. Which has caused drama.

 

So the effort of changing (or not changing, like I said I don't care one way or the other I just want consistency) isn't worth it in my eyes. Cause with any MMO as old of this there will still be a lot of shiny pokemon floating around even if the shiny rate decreased or wasn't. I mean let's look at World of Warcraft before Burning Crusade, not everyone was able to raid, but if given enough time a lot of people would still end up getting their epics from raiding. Or look at World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade, when Black Temple was released where Illidan could drop the Blades of Azzinoth a pair legendary weapons that some classes could use. Not everyone had them but again given enough time there WOULD be a lot of people who have them.

Yes PokeMMO and WoW are 2 different games entirely, but the point is to compare either high end gear or gear with low drop rates to shiny pokemon with overtime there would still be a lot of players who have them.

[Matoka]

7 hours ago, Kite said:

 ...

No recollection of the shiny rate ever being mentioned in 2014, please provide quotes or evidence of this otherwise.

It has however been mentioned that in very early development the shiny rate WAS 1/8192 however this was changed quite early on and has not been disclosed since to my knowledge.

 

Your example with World of Warcraft isn't an applicable comparison because:

• Items found from raiding were soul-bound and untradeable, by design they would be made that it would be possible for someone to eventually obtain them otherwise how were they meant to get them?
• Player base was significantly lower in early PokeMMO development so the rate that shinies were added to the server with a potentially higher rate would be balanced out by the lower number of active players (Assuming that the rate WAS higher earlier in development)
• Shinies are Vanity Items and serve no addition purpose, back during The Burning Crusade these gear items had functions that served towards progression, without them being reliable to obtain somehow progression to future Raid Tiers (Sunwell Plateau) would be very difficult.
• Raid Encounters are design to present a challenge, nothing is challenging about Random Encounter spamming in Pokemmo, by design the items will be more easy to obtain due the difficulty in even getting the oppurtunity to RNG for them, and you could only do it once per week compared to Pokemmo where god knows how many random encounters you can make

Also, what on earth is your argument, your two paragraphs seem to sum up to:

1. Devs have been inconsistent when telling the player-base what the Shiny Rate is, this caused drama
2. Over time lots of people get stuff because they RNG'd more times trying to get stuff

??? what is the relevance of these points? Drama happens and miscommunication is always gonna be a thing that happens, and stating a well known fact of "RNG is RNG" doesn't mean anything, what is your argument, what are you even arguing for?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Matoka

[Bishav]

Oh the rate was 1/8192 for a very long time and not only during the "early development" unless you mean 3 years is still early. On topic of providing quotes- we used to get 4-5 threads a week on shiny rate with the same conclusion (entire 2014 and till the fated post made by kyu) It was only after majority of the community got together and started testing that they opened up.(wasn't voluntary)

 

Well I feel that the shiny mechanism is quite broken in here.

Unless you forbid the new players from getting a shiny-

>they will get one

>sell it

>buy the comps they desire and we have bypassed the grind and reached the end game.

If you give the numbers like only 1 in 100 players gets a shiny early on in game, it's a betrayal of the grinding time remaining 99 spent on getting their comps.

Isn't this the reason why we have gift shinies as prizes? On one hand you want people who worked hard to compete and won a tourney, to not get a financial advantage over other players and on the other, you are "giving away" shinies to new players, for them to gain a financial advantage early on in game.

 

Also, the statistical outlier is the problem here, on both sides.

 

[Kite]

11 hours ago, Matoka said:

No recollection of the shiny rate ever being mentioned in 2014, please provide quotes or evidence of this otherwise.

It has however been mentioned that in very early development the shiny rate WAS 1/8192 however this was changed quite early on and has not been disclosed since to my knowledge.

 

Your example with World of Warcraft isn't an applicable comparison because:

• Items found from raiding were soul-bound and untradeable, by design they would be made that it would be possible for someone to eventually obtain them otherwise how were they meant to get them?
• Player base was significantly lower in early PokeMMO development so the rate that shinies were added to the server with a potentially higher rate would be balanced out by the lower number of active players (Assuming that the rate WAS higher earlier in development)
• Shinies are Vanity Items and serve no addition purpose, back during The Burning Crusade these gear items had functions that served towards progression, without them being reliable to obtain somehow progression to future Raid Tiers (Sunwell Plateau) would be very difficult.
• Raid Encounters are design to present a challenge, nothing is challenging about Random Encounter spamming in Pokemmo, by design the items will be more easy to obtain due the difficulty in even getting the oppurtunity to RNG for them, and you could only do it once per week compared to Pokemmo where god knows how many random encounters you can make

Also, what on earth is your argument, your two paragraphs seem to sum up to:

1. Devs have been inconsistent when telling the player-base what the Shiny Rate is, this caused drama
2. Over time lots of people get stuff because they RNG'd more times trying to get stuff

??? what is the relevance of these points? Drama happens and miscommunication is always gonna be a thing that happens, and stating a well known fact of "RNG is RNG" doesn't mean anything, what is your argument, what are you even arguing for?

Actually the items from raids could be traded if they were Bind on Equip and there is always a few that are. Then you can also trade the Soulbound items among members of the raid for roughly 2 hours if they dropped in the raid.

The actual population size does not matter at all. Even if you bring the population of WoW to PokeMMO it will still stand that over time people will acquire such items. Or in this case Shiny Pokemon even if you reduce the rate. 

Pokemon itself is never challenging the same with Raiding these days. Raiding not so much as long as you knew what you were doing as you had to worry about others messing up. You could argue PvP is challenging which is fine, but in PvP you can win shiny pokemon from official and I guess some non official tournaments (or events that people post). But for Duels with no "reward" to obtaining anything obviously won't count. However hunting for a shiny pokemon isn't challenging either as that is just monotonous just like fishing in WoW. Now fast forward in time those old raids could be run for xmog or for twinks. 1 serves a cosmetic point, the other a competitive point. Also shiny pokemon are not just just a cosmetic thing, they can also be a competitive thing (assuming IVs are great, even then I use my crappy Shiny Pidgeot in the competitive scene but I am not everyone else.)

 

I'm not arguing for anything. I simply answered what Darkshade asked. 

[Matoka]

18 minutes ago, Kite said:

Actually the items from raids could be traded if they were Bind on Equip and there is always a few that are. Then you can also trade the Soulbound items among members of the raid for roughly 2 hours if they dropped in the raid.

The actual population size does not matter at all. Even if you bring the population of WoW to PokeMMO it will still stand that over time people will acquire such items. Or in this case Shiny Pokemon even if you reduce the rate. 

Pokemon itself is never challenging the same with Raiding these days. Raiding not so much as long as you knew what you were doing as you had to worry about others messing up. You could argue PvP is challenging which is fine, but in PvP you can win shiny pokemon from official and I guess some non official tournaments (or events that people post). But for Duels with no "reward" to obtaining anything obviously won't count. However hunting for a shiny pokemon isn't challenging either as that is just monotonous just like fishing in WoW. Now fast forward in time those old raids could be run for xmog or for twinks. 1 serves a cosmetic point, the other a competitive point. Also shiny pokemon are not just just a cosmetic thing, they can also be a competitive thing (assuming IVs are great, even then I use my crappy Shiny Pidgeot in the competitive scene but I am not everyone else.)

 

I'm not arguing for anything. I simply answered what Darkshade asked. 

Bind on Equips are never the actual raid tier pieces for sets, those have always been Bind of Pickup, the ability to trade them between raid members who were with you for 2 hours is a system there to help fix any potential mistakes with allocating loot, other than that, they are soulbound and cannot be obtained anyway other than completing the raid.

 

The population size IS very relevant for an Economy, Shiny pokemon are a commodity that is traded for in our economy, Say the rate was 1/1000 but only 10 people played, the Shiny pokemon would be worth more than if the rate was 1/1000 but 1000 people played because more pokemon would be being generated at a significantly higher rate.

 

Please stop talking about raiding, there are so many other factors in raiding that it flat out is not an apt comparison, and no one on Pokemmo forums cares about Raid difficult being lowered.

 

Shiny pokemon compared to regular pokemon are purely just a vanity thing, whether they have good IV's or not is an entirely seperate matter, people do not Shiny Hunt for a competitive edge.
The fact that shiny pokemon grinding is monotonous but at the same time isn't difficult is entirely fine because it means that it is more likely to retain value than if it took 10 minutes "If you are really good at the game" because then those people who are really good at the game would spawn a ton of shinies and decrease the prices.

 

That's all i've got to say on this anymore, im gonna move on to other stuff, don't wanna get too invested in threads like this, there's literally no merit.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Matoka

[Raederz]

Messages getting longer and longer, but still empty

[LilyRox]

Trade-able shinies were one of the dumbest things added to this game. Having it implemented is practically just asking for real world trading and botting. If shinies weren't trade-able they would actually be special even at a 1/8,000 rate. Owning a shiny right now doesn't mean much since most people don't check the OT and a lot of them are just bought from people. I quit over a year ago because of this impossible shiny rate crap. There's no point in playing if admins are going to dangle "secret" ratio's and algorithms for catching shinies behind closed doors. Could be 1/20,000, 1/40,000, 1/100,000, donator only, etc. There's no point in wasting time on it after you beat the game since the only way to know is to see the code yourself or waste thousands of hours testing your own theories.

Edited July 16, 2016 by LilyRox