TohnR

You're calcing Scarf here. Now switch items to band and you'll see why it is problematic. I think it 2HKOs everything besides Bronzong which still gets badly weakened While being faster than most of the meta, meh seems a bit too much There's an other issue with Ditto, it can't copy Zoroark even after the disguise worn off (which is not supposed to happen) Ofc the stat changes one is much more important to fix

Not sure what you mean, there is plenty to do for UU & NU players right now, such as figuring out how the new mons will interact with the existing metagame, building new teams taking HAs into account and testing them on ranked (whether you like it or not, the meta will evolve much faster if people actually play on the matchmaking so we can acquire some relevant data for the future decisions to come)... For sure the billionaires that can get handed any mons in a minute don't need time but I'm just talking about making it fair for the rest of the community, at least until all the HAs that are planned get released (which should take roughly 2 weeks as far as I know). Again wasn't saying that all tours should be canceled but it's a bit sad to have a rare shiny Toxicroak on Wednesday while not knowing what changes could occur overnight

Surprise surprise they added Infiltrator Golbat and Assault Vest 😄 Do you guys still believe Serp should be banned from OU ?

I think manually deciding on the UU/NU tier changes based on discussions rather than usage for the next few months is actually a good call. Tbh I would also have canceled all shiny tournaments for the time being for UU & NU but that doesn't seem to be something that the team has considered so I guess it will be a pay2win meta for a while 😄

Pearls only allow to give more value to useless shinies. If your shiny like Lunatone was woth 900k, and a pearl is worth 300k then automatically your Lunatone value is raised to 1.2m. Pearls pricing will be much lower than the actual rare shinies value, in your example 5x31 shiny starter would be worth at least 100m and 28 pearls would be less than 9 million. Nobody is going to consider pearls pricing when trading those, it's irrelevant

You can sell them to the competitive players on GTL. As simple as that

I think the whole reason why it's only up for an hour is to make the catch slightly more challenging but moreso for preventing people to farm them with 18 alts which would lower their value by a large amount on the market I agree that it's sad tho since it forces you to be always near your PC in case you want to get them all ...

If someone is buying your most valuable asset they are likely richer than you are. Just saying 🙂

They are checks as I mentionned. I've never stated anywhere it was easy to handle Feraligatr unless you run defensive Poli (which is a fairly viable mon in UU and was already used before Feraligatr was even a thing, it's just not highly splashable in every non stall team, that I definitely agree) I'm just providing more relevant mons to add to the initial list that Poseidon made that's all I was doing tbh I think it's an used item for Roserade in the usages but I agree that it's not the best RK there is. That wasn't what I was trying to prove anyways 😉 And about the 156 def thing, my issue wasn't with the accuracy of your calculations, I know you & gb do those very well, I was just questionning the relevancy of such a high amount of EVs invested in Bulk while using max Attack (also the fact I missed it was the EVs Gb presented so it felt like an "out of nowhere") After thinking about it a bit more I guess it could be a thing, it's just never/rarely used that slow as far as I've seen but it ain't bad. Then I gotta agree with Gb's conclusions about this "on paper" set that he presented, my bad !

Great job done there 👍

156 Def very relevant Calc And to Gb, sure Toxicroak can be cheaped but it does have ways to recover (wish) and it can always revenge kill Feral worst case even with low HP due to immunity to Jet (also denies the possibility for Feral to SD)

Toxicroak needs to be above 30ish or whatever +0 Crunch does as it is capable of OHKOing Feral after rocks Don't really understand the 68% You do know Toxicroak has Close Combat and is mainly played Adamant Life Orb with that move right?

This point is wrong, I've been playing balanced without Feraligatr all month of September with relatively good success (I finished like 4th or something) over hundred of games, without any of the Feraligatr counters you just named. You can play any style in Under Used as of right now. Feraligatr is an extremely good and viable mon overall, while Dragon Dance is great against offensive teams, Swords Dance is great against defensive teams & balanced However it has far more checks than mons such as Mamoswine and Absol which aren't problematic at all, first one being unable to setup, and second one being less bulky than Feral. I'd like to add to this list. First I don't think Slowbro has any impact on the discussion except for being one of the mons capable of spreading Rocky Helmet cheap to Feraligatr when predicting STABs In the current way the tier is, Feraligatr has pretty much 3 options : Dragon Dance with Jet, Dragon Dance with Ice Punch and Swords Dance with Jet Considering that Waterfall and Crunch combo with Life Orb power boost are absolutely mandatory moves and the whole reason why Feraligatr could be discussed as banworthy 3 out of 3 of those sets lose against Poliwrath. It is 100% the best pokemon to counter it and is quite viable in the tier as it also counters Durant, Bisharp, Snorlax, checks Mamoswine and Krookodile, as well as spread Rocky Helmet damage to Uturn users such as Flygon. Main issue with this mon is that it mostly shines as a defensive threat and doesn't accomplish much in balanced/offense. 2 out of 3 of those sets (Both Dragon Dance ones) are checked by Vaporeon, Umbreon, Tangrowth, Gastrodon & Blastoise. It is also worth noting that those Feraligatr sets have a harder time against Dusclops (WillOWisp), Druddigon (Multi recoil) & Mandibuzz (+1 icepunch is a roll after rocks) 2 out of 3 of those sets (DD Jet and SD Jet) are checked by Mandibuzz, Druddigon, Tangrowth, Toxicroak, Rotom-Mow, Blastoise It is worth noting that almost all sets of Feraligatr can get Revenge Killed by a plethora of mons given you don't give them too many free turns : Staraptor benefits from Intimidate to be able to actually take a Jet, Rotom-Mow / Roserade can use a choice scarf set to RK all variants, Sigilyph has recently been trending with a Focus Sash since it has access to coverage cabable of finishing off most setup sweepers available in the tier, Toxicroak has multiple sets that can usually provide solid revenge killing and has access to Fake Out + Sucker Punch combo if you really want to ensure RK. There's also Electrode that naturally outspeeds +1 Feraligatr and is capable of revenge killing if it knows an electric move (lol) and Crobat on a band set that should outspeed all Feraligatr since it is never played with the jolly nature. Ambipom & Pikachu with Double Priority could also be considered for your team Now that all of that is said, is Feraligatr too strong or overcentralizing ? I personally don't think so, but I'm looking to hear for more arguments and people's opinion on the subject as I'm currently on the fence myself. My main concern with the mon is how much work it can do with just 1 coverage move (Crunch) and his STABs without an actual need to setup. Feraligatr has one of the biggest damage outputs in the tier on the physical side with Waterfall and is hard to really cheap to a priority range. Another trait that makes Feraligatr as dangerous is the uncertainty in his EV spreads (Speed vs Bulk, both are viable) and his setup options (DD vs SD), since they might require different countermeasures from the player to effectively punish. It has a bulk that allows him to not only achieve wallbreaking (SD) or sweeping (DD) but also revenge killing against attackers such as Mamoswine, Bisharp, Krookodile, Durant ... I do think that it currently has a top tier viability and powerlevel in the tier, is definitely shaping the meta as all other top tier threats (Heatom, Crobat, Mamoswine, Machamp, Feraligatr) but I don't see Feraligatr itself as more restrictive than any of the other threats I named.

Everyone predicted that crobat return to NU after Serperior's departure. But because of some mon that crobat could check or counter, they stayed on UU. I know how usage system works, i'm only warning because something are becoming a issue on UU, that forced Crobat's stay, even with two dominating mons that destroy crobat with little to no effort (I'm looking at you, Rotom-Heat and Mamoswine).

Wait I disagree with a lot of what you said about Serperior (but will not argue since I'm not an OU player and it's none of my business) but I actually agree with your conclusion gbwead. A wise man has spoken. Only issue is we can't rely on the devs to fix any issue with the tiers balancing unless we are given guarantees that they are taking action of adding said HAs 😞

Dead event, no takers. Couldn't catch Sebat/Edstorm for their money online and TheDH owes me 100k

It wasn't, see the screen (evasion +6, all other stats are +2 or +4) Also I'd assume this guy runs Pain Split + Sub + Accupressure + Ice Beam (that isn't immuned by any other mon)

I would think you lose the light ball but it costs about 8.000 yen on the market so it's not much for a move like this. And yes the ingame Pokedex says "Egg and Item" as a source for Volt Tackle so I think you have the right method

I agree with this reasonning but it's better to just say "Battle has already happened bet is canceled" instead 😉 Because if you won your bet maybe you would still ask me to pay I trust you that you wouldn't so it's ok 🙂

Why did you delete this message where I was quoted for a bet ? Sounds suspect to me

From 100k to 200k on each of these. If I accept your bet I will mention you on this thread : DB: Gabuchox VS Complutum OU: Lunarck VS Arkmage UU: PoseidonWrath VS leehiii OU: Powerdrib VS Sargeste LC: Quinn VS Eedays @Wallarro 100k (PAID) DUBS: Kevin VS DocPBC UU: zAnderson VS xNotYourFriend @Pcoookie 200k (PAID) DB: Rickypoke VS Atlewis UU: DoubleJ VS XiaoSH @CarolML 200K (PAID) DB: Imabe VS PettyFireDragon OU: KiritoX VS TheSousukeAizen @Poufilou 100K (PAID) @Sebat 100k (PAID) UU: AsmodeuSA VS DridrigoFK NU: woxiangsinile VS Belegado DUBS: DTNight VS Shentiger OU: Mausito VS ChuckUnso @xEdstrom100k (PAID) DB: sherlockholmes VS YJos /!\ If any substitutions / activity / disconnection wins are given, bets are void. I might not accept your bet if I don't think you are trustworthy If any matches have already been played at the time I'm making this post, apologies the bets will be removed From Week1 : Paid my bets, TheDH owes me 100k.

In my opinion it's better to assume they have not started working on it, yet

Taking these. 200k on RexB, 200k on Quinn and 100k on Doc according to your posts 💪

Uturn is a contact move hence risking to die from rocky helmet. Baton pass provides a safe and slow switching option and is better to abuse trapping loops with Dugtrio in OU. If you need further explanation about Shedinja you should look at the "Wonder Trio" post on Smogon forums. And I think Ninjask is fine it's just fast but prone to rocks, prios and still checked by Rotom, Steelix, Gligar and a bunch of top tier mons 🙂

Thanks yall for proving my point in just a few hours 🏆