DoubleJ

So when the vote is 1-0 I guess that's enough to say "oh let's ban it." How silly. We need a valid vote from all members, and if it means "making up rules as we go" then I guess that's the best move. I'm with @LifeStyleNORE in that we cannot make rash decisions just because of community pressure.

@gbwead you don't want us to vote now, just FYI. But you're right, we could vote as early as a week after the thread opens given it is a standard ban process. Nido looks op, but the tier is shifting and some aren't sold it's uber offensive yet.

We'll get a thread up, give us some time.

What is this? This thread is being opened to discuss Cloyster being added to the NU tier by usage. Cloyster has fallen below the 4.36% cut-off allowed. Cloyster will be considered for a possible ban to Borderline 2 using a suspect test. What to know? Cloyster is a premiere set-up sweeper with access to Shell Smash (+2 boosts to Att, SpAtt, and Spe with -1 drops to Def and SpDef) as well as Skill Link which guarantees a 5-hit for moves such as STAB Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and Pin Missile. It also has STAB priority Ice Shard to ensure it outspeeds and beats any revenge killers that might outspeed it or carry priority themselves. In the NU tier, there would be a reliance on defensive stallwarts like Quagsire and Clefable which carry unaware and hope to have enough HP to beat a neutral Cloyster with a base 125 STAB move at its disposal. Bronzor is another readily available option, although beyond that, there are few other checks which are not taking considerable damage from +2 STAB Icicle Spear or Rock Blast. Fortunately, Cloyster is limited by its poor speed and relies on +Speed nature to beat base 100 or better choice scarf speedsters in the NU tier when set-up. Additionally, the negative -1 drops to its defenses with Shell Smash open the door for fighting-types with priority such as Mach Punch Hitmontop/chan and Vacuum Wave Blaziken. Additionally, Cloyster can function as an effective hazard setter and Rapid Spin user, as well as suicide lead. It is very diverse, has a powerful punch, and has limited checks. With that in mind, we recommend a suspect test for this behemoth which may just be too much for NU. Noteworthy sets? Shell Smash: Icicle Spear, Ice Shard, Rock Blast/Pin Missile/Explosion, Shell Smash (Adamant or Jolly Nature w/ White Herb or Life Orb) Mixed: Icicle Spear, Ice Shard, Hydro Pump, Shell Smash (Rash or Naive Nature w/ White Herb or Life Orb) Choice Scarf: Icicle Spear, Ice Shard, Rock Blast, Razor Shell/Pin Missile (Adamant or Jolly Nature w/ Choice Scarf) Defensive: Icicle Spear, Ice Shard/Toxic, Spikes/Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin (Impish or Relaxed Nature w/ Leftovers) Noteworthy calcs? Slowking Qwilfish Bronzor Quagsire Hitmontop Hitmonchan Blaziken Clefable *A +2 boost via Shell Smash with White Herb was used for these calcs. This represents what is likely the most anticipated set in the NU tier.

@Imperial great post, thank you for that. Kudos to @PoseidonWrath for drafting the thread. Overall, I do believe Nidoqueen is a monster and a match-up nightmare. If the stats continue as they have it will prove to be BL2 worthy. Our current guidelines state a month for an effective suspect test, and I imagine we'll have an answer by then

Defensive 'mence smiles

What is this? This thread is being opened to discuss Salamence being added to the UU tier by usage. Salamence has once again fallen below the 4.36% cut-off allowed. Salamence will be considered for a possible ban to Borderline 1 using a suspect test. What to know? As with any pseudo-legendary, Salamence has significantly high stats which automatically positions it as a threat. Its typing and ability (Intimidate) allow for relatively easy defensive switches that allow it to take advantage of its impressive offensive stats and movepool. Now with access to Moxie, it can more readily function as a sweeper (Choice Scarf, Dragon Dance), as well as a classic wallbreaker (MixMence, Choice Band) or a defensive pivot (Defog). Its movepool creates nearly unopposed coverage and it can even heal with Roost. It has very few flaws, although notably a 4x weakness to Ice-type attacks and a weakness to Stealth Rocks. Downsides include a reliance on powerful Special Attacks with mediocre accuracy like STAB Draco Meteor and Hurricane, as well as underpowered Physical Attacks like Dragon Claw, Brick Break, and Rock Slide. Unfortunately, Mamoswine recently moved up to OU by usage and now the tier is left with few viable Ice Shard users. Fortunately, there are still faster threats that could revenge kill and strong defensive mons that can slow it down. In OU, Salamence was largely displaced by a faster and more versatile Garchomp. In UU, its speed would be less a problem and more an advantage. It's versatility would be unrivaled and would be considered very dangerous for the tier. Noteworthy sets? Choice Scarf/Choice Band: Dragon Claw, Rock Slide, Brick Break, EQ/Flamethrower/Fire Blast (Jolly or Naive Nature) MixMence: Draco Meteor, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Brick Break, Roost/Rock Slide/EQ (Naive Nature with Life Orb or Dragon Gem) Defensive: Dragon Pulse, Flamethrower, Roost, Defog (Timid or Bold Nature with Leftovers or Rocky Helmet) Notable Checks or Counters? Empoleon Spiritomb Donphan Swampert Bronzong Gigalith Hippowdon Umbreon Crobat Slowbro Tentacruel Gligar Dusclops Vaporeon Jellicent Rhyperior *Life Orb was used most commonly in calcs, although may not be representative of what will be most commonly used. EV spreads were made to show the extremes and likely do not represent actual usage. Life Orb damage represents a medium for non-boosted attacks and attacks boosted with a Gem or Choice Band/Moxie-Boost/Choice Specs. Please discuss.

@Munya hey there mun mun, please close this thread, thank you = )

In this discussion thread? The only counter argument proposed was by @Imperial who stated that Mamoswine going up could be a problem. Otherwise there were three posts saying "quick ban" and a larger number of others saying to suspect test. Our last suspect test was interrupted by the introduction of Moxie and Salamence moving up naturally. As of right now, there is consensus among the TC that we should resume the suspect test and not quick ban it to BL1. I've been pretty transparent lately. Salamence will be centralizing and we will need to monitor it. And I agree, they are terrible answers but Ice Shard is an easy option so you might see more usage. I look forward to Donphan being played more readily though.

Sounds like folks in the community would be ok with Salamence being tested in UU then. Moxie doesn't seem to be that big an issue. Only counter argument was not having Mamoswine available, but that might lead to increased usage of Vanilluxe, Sneasel, or even Piloswine as quick checks for an offensive variant. Not sure how realistic that is, but could be seen. Hippowdon is another option that could see more usage as it's currently bridging NU right now.

The tier council made the decision to test Porygon2 and for the past several weeks we've heard public discussion, reviewed matches, and played the tier ourselves. Unfortunately, the test was not successful and the tier council has voted to ban Porygon2 to BL1 with a vote of 4-2. This will go live with tier changes.

I think he's lying.

If only Lucario had lower usage...

Just as a summary of discussion here and discussion internally with the TC, our focus is on several pokemon in several tiers. These being Salamence (OU-->UU) and Haxorus (BL1) in UU and Cloyster (UU-->NU), Nidoqueen (UU-->NU), Venomoth (BL2), and Sharpedo (NU) in NU. As of right now, consensus in TC as far as I can interpret is that Vaporeon should be fine in NU. There is also an existing vote on the Porygon2 suspect test as well. Anything else not mentioned that is moving down a tier, is on a borderline list, or is a possible problem in the tier is likely just fine for now. Stay tuned.

I don't think there's a written protocol, but there likely should be. I think we would first agree that a vote should take place after discussing internally and reviewing public forum discussion, vote, and then if released, open a suspect test for the newly released mon.

Hey you nerd, I post a lot too.

As y'all have seen, Porygon2 was reintroduced as a test given the nerf to recovery moves (8 PP) and new hidden abilities, moves, and pokemon which opened the door to stronger attackers within the tier. Thus far, we are seeing that Porgyon2 continues to have a large impact on the tier. Namely, it quickly rose to the top three in usage and has one of the highest win rates among the tier (Empoleon OP today). Most players are using a +SpAtt set, leveraging Download boosts to apply pressure on a tier that does not resist the combo of Tri-Attack + Discharge (outside of Magneton). As we saw previously, Porygon2 also has substantial bulk with Eviolite and can withstand a large onslaught from our common attackers, relying simply on Fighting-types like Machamp to be able to OHKO or RK it. Without investment, P2 can outpace Machamp and there really aren't any other fighting types in the tier that can apply the same amount of pressure (Medicham and Heracross, but usage is bleh). Toxicroak and Poliwrath hit pretty soft and are weaker on the SpDef side, meaning they cannot switch in reliably, forcing you to run a bulky SpDef mon to pivot off of, which just opens the door to losing momentum to Teleport. All in all, this is the premium pokemon in the tier and certainly S-class. Players are already calling for it to be banned, and I might have to agree. The recovery nerf just doesn't seem to be enough to keep the duck under control.

Lmfao y'all ain't doing it right: Doc is an OG but albeit beta member/boss of [EV] who once had a Godfish and ran Doubles for a few years #Canada Pel is an OG and truly one of the better players in the 3v3 and 4v4 Era. Maura was a shiny trader who pissed a lot of players off. He once traded me a 31 speed IV Jolly Aero for my God Dratini. Turns out Aero had Pressure nature and it was my first intro to being scammed. He was also a Season 2 PSL manager and promised everyone on the team a shiny metapod. I carried the team and still don't have that meta. Blonde was the original hot MMO chicken that no one really knew was a girl or not. Players simped and white knighted hard. Meanwhile she just lived in Verm ch1 and tried to make Nidoking stall teams. Hassan was beta to the max but hosted a lot of annoying unofficials for select players who were notoriously bad. The others are no names in my book.

72 to 75m most recently

She gone then, I cry.

HE'S STEALING THE MONEY

Just gonna remind everyone here who really been with us since day one.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-1826001903-cedufu0foakt8x5ui47xea4vvgmd7h2pw

Let it be known that the STARK TYRANTS are the PSL XV Champions!!!!

20M on Blu3breath I need a new Shiny Comp.