Ditto Farming with Payday (Updated with Johto Strat)

[enzo172014]

This is my first post here so I hope everyone is nice. Please let me know if you have questions or suggestions on this one.

 

This strategy allows you to get extra income when Ditto farming taking advantage of Payday.

 

PROS

• 1 Pokémon used per catch. No switching needed.
• Don't need to track PP of 2 Pokémons. Just your lead Pokémon
• 96 max Dittos per run (If you make 6 total)
• Extra income (400 to 450 yen) with every catch/non-ditto encounter
• Faster catch. Switching animation takes longer.
• Takes advantage of Net Ball's 3.5x catch rate.
• Can now be used in Johto and Hoenn - Thanks to @ddnodollar for finding this out.

 

CONS

• Payday may crit resulting to fail catch
• Not recommended when you encounter shiny ditto
• May need to use awakening (in case enemy ditto uses yawn + catch fail but chance of this happening is very low, also income from payday greatly overshadows this expense)

 

I created this strategy because I don't like switching Pokémon and I see myself tracking 2 Pokémon's PP summary window when I use the Foretress strategy. I am making a comparison due to that.

 

Vaporeon	Foretress
96 Caught Dittos per run w/o Leppas 16 Yawn x 6 Vaporeons	64 to 72 Caught Dittos per run w/o Leppas 32 Volt Switch x 2 Forretress and 3 Brelooms  or 24 Spore x 3 Foretress and 3 Brelooms
Extra 400-450 yen per Ditto/non-Ditto encounter	No yen
No Switching needed	Need to switch to spore Pokemon.
Only need to track lead Pokemon’s Yawn PP	Need to track both Volt Switch and Spore’s PP
Chance for Ditto to faint Payday Crits	All Ditto encounters are caught
May need to use awakening/endure 3 sleep turns on next encounter. This rarely happens Happens when Enemy Ditto uses Yawn on you and you miss a catch	No need for this since Enemy Ditto will not have any chance to use any move on you except transform.
Hoenn Exclusive Johto and Hoenn	Can be used anywhere
Throw Pokeball in the third turn.	Throw Pokeball in the third turn.
Takes Advantage of Net Ball’s 3.5x catch rate	Takes Advantage of Net Ball’s 3.5x catch rate

 

The Strategy.

I made a video here so it is clear to everyone.

Here is the link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_XXJCCFqZ-hVAFweBUPPx6x2vuCtk2KH/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Lowest HP Ditto by area

Spoiler

Hoenn

 

 

 

Johto

 

 

Here is the Payday's damage calculation.

 

Ditto will copy all of your Vaporeon's stats except max HP. The max damage you can do with Ditto in this build will be 87 with Silk Scarf and 73 without Silk Scarf. Ditto's HP will be very low to get the almost 100% catch rate with Net Ball.

 

Hoenn Damage Calculation (with Silk Scarf)
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Johto Damage Calculation (w/o Silk Scarf)

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Vaporeon Build

Spoiler

 

Nature: Lonely, +10% Attack - 10% Defense

 

Item Held: Silk Scarf, Increase Payday damage by 20%. (Remove Silk Scarf for Johto)

 

EV Training

What's Important:

Attack EV: 200, Enables you to get max damage to 87. 252 Attack w/o silk scarf only gets you to 77.

Defense EV: keep at 0.

 

The suggestion

Sp. Atk: For leveling with Surf.

Speed/HP: Bulk/Speed

 

 

IV:

This is the IV I use. Pretty self explanatory.

 

 

Moveset:

Yawn. Used on first turn. Sleep makes Ditto easier to catch.

Pay Day. Damage dealer. Yen Income

Surf/Muddy Water (Or any other water move): Heals you with Water Absorb ability. Keeps your HP up.

 

Ability: Water Absorb.

 

FAQS

 

Spoiler

1. How much more profit do you get?

 - According to @qtAlice's test. She gained extra 45k yen for 1 hour.

 

2. Is Espeon/Umbreon better since they have synchronise?

- We need water absorb to keep our hp up. Also, we want to take advantage of net ball's 3.5x catch rate.

 

3. How do you keep your HP up?

- Water Absorb. There is a 50% chance enemy ditto will use it on you.

 

4. There is so much RNG going on in here.

- The rewards is too great to give up for very little RNG. People hate RNG so much that they are willing to give up the better rewards.

- The crit rate is 1/16. But I doubt it. Hope someone tests this because I don't think I get crit that often. 

- Vaporeon can fall asleep. You get 25% chance that Enemy Vaporeon uses yawn on you. After that you have to miss a catch. I run 4 vaporeons currently and I get sleep once or twice every 2-3 runs. That is how low the chance is. 

 

5. Hope this works in Johto.

- Added a section for Johto damage calculation. It can already work in Johto with the same build. Just remove silk scarf. You can put chesto berry as recommended by @YoungCabbage

 

6. Is the catch rate the same with the Forretress strat ?

- Probably a little bit lower. But it should be almost the same. 

That's everything. Let me know if you have suggestions.

 

 

  

Edited March 5 by enzo172014

[caioxlive13]

One of the problems in the Forretrrees farm is PP? Fine, i understand. Both locations to farm ditto are far from Pokecenter. Let me fix that.

 

 https://pokepast.es/7e6abf75e2b858a7

 

128 uses from Volt Switch, 208 uses to status condition moves. You can replace Thunder Wave and Baton Pass and put Soft-boiled/Roost and still had 144 uses from Status condition. PP is enough now?

Edited January 13 by caioxlive13

[enzo172014]

9 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

One of the problems in the Forretrrees farm is PP? Fine, i understand. Both locations to farm ditto are far from Pokecenter. Let me fix that.

 

 https://pokepast.es/7e6abf75e2b858a7

 

128 uses from Volt Switch, 208 uses to status condition moves. You can replace Thunder Wave and Baton Pass and put Soft-boiled/Roost and still had 144 uses from Status condition. PP is enough now?

I would agree that there are other ways to solve the PP problem. I guess the main selling point of this strat is using payday to lower Ditto's HP with a few cons.

 

• Payday may crit resulting to fail catch - You still get Payday yen? I don't think this doesn't hurt much. It rarely happens as well.
• Not recommended when you encounter shiny ditto -  Just sleep Ditto and throw balls. Ditto can never kill you since you heal with water moves.
• May need to use awakening (in case enemy ditto uses yawn + catch fail but chance of this happening is very low, also income from payday greatly overshadows this expense) - Never really happened to me. So I can say the chance is very low.
• Hoenn Exclusive. Doesn't hurt much to most players. Use the calculator and make modifications to the damage output if you intend to use in Johto or other places.

I think these cons is greatly overshadowed by the extra 38,400 to 41,400 yen + non-ditto encounter payday yen with zero added effort.

 

Also, I didn't say PP is a problem. It is just an advantage with my proposed strategy.

Edited January 14 by enzo172014

[caioxlive13]

8 hours ago, enzo172014 said:

I would agree that there are other ways to solve the PP problem. I guess the main selling point of this strat is using payday to lower Ditto's HP with a few cons.

 

• Payday may crit resulting to fail catch - You still get Payday yen? I don't think this doesn't hurt much. It rarely happens as well.
• Not recommended when you encounter shiny ditto -  Just sleep Ditto and throw balls. Ditto can never kill you since you heal with water moves.
• May need to use awakening (in case enemy ditto uses yawn + catch fail but chance of this happening is very low, also income from payday greatly overshadows this expense) - Never really happened to me. So I can say the chance is very low.
• Hoenn Exclusive. Doesn't hurt much to most players. Use the calculator and make modifications to the damage output if you intend to use in Johto or other places.

I think these cons is greatly overshadowed by the extra 38,400 to 41,400 yen + non-ditto encounter payday yen with zero added effort.

 

Also, I didn't say PP is a problem. It is just an advantage with my proposed strategy.

Payday yen is not that great, also there is no real advantage on hunting on hoenn. meannwhile forretress strat allows you to hunt on johto, where you can find a $600k dog that you can make a comp, or sell it. If you had a Suicune it's better to sell a second one you find because Suicune on current OU is very valuable. (You can get like, 1,2 to 1,8m on a Suicune depending on IVs and Nature.)  

Edited January 14 by caioxlive13

[enzo172014]

4 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Payday yen is not that great, also there is no real advantage on hunting on hoenn. meannwhile forretress strat allows you to hunt on johto, where you can find a $600k dog that you can make a comp, or sell it. If you had a Suicune it's better to sell a second one you find because Suicune on current OU is very valuable. (You can get like, 1,2 to 1,8m on a Suicune depending on IVs and Nature.)  

Dogs are (as they say) 1/8k.           Payday income: 8k x 400 = 3.2m.

Lucky? 1/4k.                                  Payday income: 4k x 400 = 1.6m.

Very Lucky? 1/2k.                          Payday income: 2k x 400 = 800k yen.

After catching the dogs, you get nothing else aside from Ditto.

Probably a shiny. A far better shiny than Whismur.

Shiny 1/30k.                                 Payday income: 30k x 400 = 12M yen.

 

I am not saying that this is greater than Forretress strat. I have used the Foretress strat for weeks to get 180 Dittos per day. It works wonders, no doubt. I never said my strat is better as well. It is far superior in Ditto farming in many aspects. I even have the pros and cons listed. This is only an alternative I made myself which I am just so proud of that I posted here.

 

PS. You can use this same strat in Johto. You just have to make adjustments in the EV's to lower the damage to Lowest HP Ditto - 1. Please don't let me make a guide for that. Hahaha.

Edited January 14 by enzo172014

[enzo172014]

Many thanks to qtAlice for the feature. Love the honest feedback.

 

 

[Zuladra]

Great work!

[YoungCabbage]

Made a video covering your build and giving you a shoutout! Thanks for your dedication and love for the game

 

 

[Katzukiangel]

Nice

Didn't Psyduck or Slowpoke work there too?

 

Edited January 31 by Katzukiangel

[enzo172014]

2 hours ago, Katzukiangel said:

Nice

Didn't Psyduck or Slowpoke work there too?

 

Hi Katzuki. Psyduck and slowpoke does not have water absorb, I think. You will have HP problems. 

Also tested quagsire but defense is too high to get HP at a low percentage.

[ddnodollar]

Good strategy, I think he is faster than Foretress, because some animations are shorter, and many people deny that they just don't want to make new pm. Can I make a video to recommend to my friends in China?

[enzo172014]

53 minutes ago, ddnodollar said:

Good strategy, I think he is faster than Foretress, because some animations are shorter, and many people deny that they just don't want to make new pm. Can I make a video to recommend to my friends in China?

Yeah you can. Would love to see this being considered as an alternative catching strat.

[ddnodollar]

17小时前，enzo172014 说：

Yeah you can. Would love to see this being considered as an alternative catching strat.

Thank you. By the way, have you considered making a Vaporeon for route 47 in Johto?

[enzo172014]

1 hour ago, ddnodollar said:

Thank you. By the way, have you considered making a Vaporeon for route 47 in Johto?

Haven't tried it but did a computation below.

 

Lowest HP Ditto in Route 47, Johto.

Level 33 with 0 HP IV has 74 HP.

 

Same everything but make changes to EV's. Need to have max non-crit damage to 73.

Change Attack EV to anywhere between 56 and 63.

Dump all other EV to anywhere else except defense.

 

 

Edited February 1 by enzo172014

[qtAlice]

12 hours ago, ddnodollar said:

Thank you. By the way, have you considered making a Vaporeon for route 47 in Johto?

Young cabbages video covers this actually. You can literally just use chesto berry instead of silk scarf and it works. Chesto berry also removes the sleep if the yawn goes through.

perhaps do more calculations like @enzo172014 here if we would want to min max.

 

[ddnodollar]

9小时前，qtAlice 说：

Young cabbages video covers this actually. You can literally just use chesto berry instead of silk scarf and it works. Chesto berry also removes the sleep if the yawn goes through.

perhaps do more calculations like @enzo172014 here if we would want to min max.

 

What a coincidence! After testing, I found that it could just catch the Johto ditto without the silk scarf.

[Axanthicc]

Made an account here just to tell you this is a cool build! The EV spread you suggested works great, even though I got impatient and only leveled my Vaporeon to like 85 before starting to farm Dittos in the Hoenn Cave. The catch rate with the net balls is still good enough even in yellow hp ^^

 

I've also been experimenting with different EV builds and IV spreads. I don't think any other nature than Lonely is viable, but there seems to be quite a bit of wiggle room with the stats.

 

Specifically, I've bred a Vaporeon with your suggested 31 atk IV / 0 def IV, but statted it with 252 atk EVs / 32 def EVs. Logic behind that is just that I'd like to have as much payday damage as possible against everything that isn't a Ditto. Doesn't make a difference in the Ditto Cave, but if I ever decide to Payday farm somewhere else I'd be covered 🙂

 

I've also produced one that is 27 atk IV / 1 def IV. It's trained to 252 atk EV / 20 def EV. I haven't tried farming with it yet since it's only lvl 50 so far, but according to the calculator it should work exactly the same as the 31/0 ones. Its biggest advantage is how extremely cheap the breed was. 8k for a 26 atk IV / 3 def IV female Eevee, 3k for a 28 atk IV / 1 def male Lonely Poochyena (it learns Yawn at lvl 31) and one Everstone.

I'll report back with how well it worked ^^

But technically, the calculator makes it seem that values as low as 19 atk / 0 def and as high as 31 atk / 8 def should be usable.

[enzo172014]

3 hours ago, Axanthicc said:

Made an account here just to tell you this is a cool build! The EV spread you suggested works great, even though I got impatient and only leveled my Vaporeon to like 85 before starting to farm Dittos in the Hoenn Cave. The catch rate with the net balls is still good enough even in yellow hp ^^

 

I've also been experimenting with different EV builds and IV spreads. I don't think any other nature than Lonely is viable, but there seems to be quite a bit of wiggle room with the stats.

 

Specifically, I've bred a Vaporeon with your suggested 31 atk IV / 0 def IV, but statted it with 252 atk EVs / 32 def EVs. Logic behind that is just that I'd like to have as much payday damage as possible against everything that isn't a Ditto. Doesn't make a difference in the Ditto Cave, but if I ever decide to Payday farm somewhere else I'd be covered 🙂

 

I've also produced one that is 27 atk IV / 1 def IV. It's trained to 252 atk EV / 20 def EV. I haven't tried farming with it yet since it's only lvl 50 so far, but according to the calculator it should work exactly the same as the 31/0 ones. Its biggest advantage is how extremely cheap the breed was. 8k for a 26 atk IV / 3 def IV female Eevee, 3k for a 28 atk IV / 1 def male Lonely Poochyena (it learns Yawn at lvl 31) and one Everstone.

I'll report back with how well it worked ^^

But technically, the calculator makes it seem that values as low as 19 atk / 0 def and as high as 31 atk / 8 def should be usable.

Great work on the tests.

 

The IV's and EV's can be changed as long as you use the calculator. I usually check the area I wanted to farm. In Hoenn, the lowest hp of ditto you can catch is 88 so I made sure my maximum non-crit damage is only 77. In Johto, lowest hp is 74 so we need to make sure our max non-crit damage is 73.

 

I also opted to get 31 attack and 0 Def because that would be easier to replicate (in my opinion) rather than a specific EV like 1-30.

"But technically, the calculator makes it seem that values as low as 19 atk / 0 def and as high as 31 atk / 8 def should be usable." - This is a very good information.

 

I also plan to do a Johto farming section and an FAQ section but still can't find the energy to do it. 😄 

[ddnodollar]

1小时前，enzo172014 说：

Great work on the tests.

 

The IV's and EV's can be changed as long as you use the calculator. I usually check the area I wanted to farm. In Hoenn, the lowest hp of ditto you can catch is 88 so I made sure my maximum non-crit damage is only 77. In Johto, lowest hp is 74 so we need to make sure our max non-crit damage is 73.

 

I also opted to get 31 attack and 0 Def because that would be easier to replicate (in my opinion) rather than a specific EV like 1-30.

"But technically, the calculator makes it seem that values as low as 19 atk / 0 def and as high as 31 atk / 8 def should be usable." - This is a very good information.

 

I also plan to do a Johto farming section and an FAQ section but still can't find the energy to do it. 😄 

without silk scarf,your Hoenn Vaporeon bacomes Johto Vaporeon.

[enzo172014]

2 hours ago, ddnodollar said:

without silk scarf,your Hoenn Vaporeon bacomes Johto Vaporeon.

It does! Will need to add this one once I find time updating this guide.. Max non-crit damage will be 73 so the same Vaporeon is actually perfect for Johto as well.

Thank you for pointing this out..  This has made this guide 2x better.

 

[Arthib]

Nice job man, looks like a very interesting method.
I'm curious to see a comparison of johto vs hoenn profits.
It's hard to imagine the impact that berry has on an intensive farm...
It's even hard to imagine the impact of the species pool since it depends of each species rarity in that zone.
If anyone has experienced both regions like 10h+ or something like that, which one do you think is the most profitable ?

[enzo172014]

On 2/21/2024 at 2:14 PM, Arthib said:

Nice job man, looks like a very interesting method.
I'm curious to see a comparison of johto vs hoenn profits.
It's hard to imagine the impact that berry has on an intensive farm...
It's even hard to imagine the impact of the species pool since it depends of each species rarity in that zone.
If anyone has experienced both regions like 10h+ or something like that, which one do you think is the most profitable ?

Thank you. 

 

Don't have the comparison though. But I still farm in Hoenn.

 

If you factor the Legendary Dog's encounter rate you are losing 560k - 800k yen for 8k encounters.

The 70-100 yen difference will be quite a lot if you farm for a lot more time. 

The best move perhaps is to do Johto if you haven't captured the dogs during the month and move to Hoenn once you captured the dog.

 

Never really used berries or awakening. I just tank 3 turns of sleep whenever that happens. The berries are just to make your life easier. This rarely happens so I don't really mind it.

 

 

[Mimighster]

What about Espeon? Can get one with Synchronize and Adamant, then use fast ball for 4.0x catch rate if it works how I assume it does. This way you get better Dittos on average and a higher catch rate (it's already high so I assume it would be guaranteed which means you'd never get slept either). The issue is the balls cost more. You can get some yourself every day but idk if that's worth making a new catching mon for.

Edited March 10 by Mimighster

[enzo172014]

On 3/11/2024 at 7:09 AM, Mimighster said:

What about Espeon? Can get one with Synchronize and Adamant, then use fast ball for 4.0x catch rate if it works how I assume it does. This way you get better Dittos on average and a higher catch rate (it's already high so I assume it would be guaranteed which means you'd never get slept either). The issue is the balls cost more. You can get some yourself every day but idk if that's worth making a new catching mon for.

Yeah fast ball has 4x catch rate but remember you are catching the ditto at 100% hp without the sleep (x2 catch rate). The net ball with sleep will have higher catch rate.

 

You can test the catch rate with fast balls without prep. Just put any Pokemon in front and throw fast ball since the nature doesn't really affect the catch rate. I know I have tried this during xmas event because swarm pokemons are mostly caught with fast balls but sadly , I remember them not working on dittos. I may be wrong though.

PS: The sleep you worry about happens zero or twice every 64 catches. I'm not sure why a lot of people find this a very big issue. 1 awakening costs 300 yen and you get 400-450 yen instead for every non-horde encounter. Imagine giving up 25,600 -28,800 yen just because you don't want to spend 0-900 yen on awakening.

Edited March 12 by enzo172014

[Mimighster]

2 minutes ago, enzo172014 said:

Yeah fast ball has 4x catch rate but remember you are catching the ditto at 100% hp without the sleep (x2 catch rate). The net ball with sleep will have higher catch rate.

 

You can test the catch rate with fast balls without prep. Just put any Pokemon in front and throw fast ball since the nature doesn't really affect the catch rate. I know I have tried this during xmas event because swarm pokemons are mostly caught with fast balls but sadly , I remember them not working on dittos. I may be wrong though.

Not quick ball, fast ball. So you do the same thing as with net balls, yawn, pay day and ball. But instead they will transform to Espeon who has 100+ base speed so you get the 4x catch rate (as long as it works of Dittos newly transformed pokemons base stats which I assume it does if net ball works of the transformed pokemons typing). Also the Synchronize to adamant is just to increase the average profit on your Ditto. A ditto with 31 ATK or 31 SPD and adamant is worth much more than one with other natures.