General Thread: Physical/Special split testing

[Senile]

fixed the last part for you

 

You should've ran Superpower on Blaziken instead of Sky Uppercut :P

(Is Meteor Mash's accuracy  90% and 90 BP? o_O it tends to miss so often)

In PokeMMO, it's 90% and 90 BP. In Gen 4, it's 100 BP and 85%.

[RysPicz]

In PokeMMO, it's 90% and 90 BP. In Gen 4, it's 100 BP and 85%.

Thanks Senile, I haven't played anything past gen 4 (except randoms, which are obviously very relevent)

[themanone]

Anyone want to hit me up on showdown?

[KingTsunami]

Lol I can already see the bans going way too out of hand.

[DoubleJ]

Off the top of my head bans that should be made without Gen 4 Moves: Pursuit, Salamence, Tyranitar, Dugtrio.

[Vaeldras]

Wait a sec, will we have the split in the actual update too 10/10 confirmed?

Or are they just testing?

[BenGorgon]

Wait a sec, will we have the split in the actual update too 10/10 confirmed?
Or are they just testing?

It has been added to the PTS, so I would say 9/10 confirmed. Nobody has really put forward a good reason why it should not be implemented. Edited January 4, 2015 by BenGorgon

[Excelimpulse]

If we ban pursuit. How is snorlax checking gengar?

[londark]

If we ban pursuit. How is snorlax checking gengar?

 

Crunch

[Excelimpulse]

Crunch

Is crunch a tutor move or what? I don't think it can learn thru egg moves.

[londark]

Should be a level up move

[Excelimpulse]

Should be a level up move

Not in gen 3 mechanics. And if that's the case does that mean we're getting gen 4 moves if we're doing that?

[londark]

Not in gen 3 mechanics. And if that's the case does that mean we're getting gen 4 moves if we're doing that?

 

No, that's already changed in the PST. Every pokemon has access to level up moves from future generation as long as the move exist in Gen 3

 

EDIT: Or so i think, haven't payied much attention to PST, but when i started someone said so in chat cause the starters have already elemental moves at level 5

Edited January 4, 2015 by londar

[Excelimpulse]

No, that's already changed in the PST. Every pokemon has access to level up moves from future generation as long as the move exist in Gen 3

Oh great, so that basically confirms that gen 4 moves are not coming. Alright I'm out then.

[BenGorgon]

Oh great, so that basically confirms that gen 4 moves are not coming. Alright I'm out then.

Much negativity, such illogical leaps from nowhere... Wow

[Excelimpulse]

Much negativity, such illogical leaps from nowhere... Wow

How can you justify this is a good thing? We get to use different moves but ban all the wall breakers again. I feel like we went backwwrds. That's just imo.

[BenGorgon]

How can you justify this is a good thing? We get to use different moves but ban all the wall breakers again. I feel like we went backwwrds. That's just imo.

If you actually watched any of the suspect testing videos you would see that complete adverse of your statement is true. Partly as a product of Hoenn and partly due to the split, wall Pokemon, and moreover stall teams, are going to be much less viable. There are few things that can take a +2 Waterfall from Garydos, or just about anything from a Metagross.

If anything, it is the walls primarily that are losing moves and in the end, viability.

Edit: Thay being said, tanky attackers are gaining more viable usage. Edited January 4, 2015 by BenGorgon

[Excelimpulse]

If you actually watched any of the suspect testing videos you would see that complete adverse of your statement is true. Partly as a product of Hoenn and partly due to the split, wall Pokemon, and moreover stall teams, are going to be much less viable. There are few things that can take a +2 Waterfall from Garydos, or just about anything from a Metagross.

If anything, it is the walls primarily that are losing moves and in the end, viability.

Ok so then why is mence banned in one day of testing? If it does basically the samething as +2 gyardos and metagriss.

[BenGorgon]

Ok so then why is mence banned in one day of testing? If it does basically the samething as +2 gyardos and metagriss.

Firstly, that is a quickban for suspect testing. This does not necessarily mean it will be banned ingame (though it is fairly likely).

Secondly, one of the major things that makes Mence scary, even without outrage or draco meteor, is intimidate allows it to come in on physical attackers it would otherwise get creamed by, and 2hko to ohko.... With no setup.

[Excelimpulse]

Firstly, that is a quickban for suspect testing. This does not necessarily mean it will be banned ingame (though it is fairly likely).

Secondly, one of the major things that makes Mence scary, even without outrage or draco meteor, is intimidate allows it to come in on physical attackers it would otherwise get creamed by, and 2hko to ohko.... With no setup.

And that's different from our metagame how?

[BenGorgon]

And that's different from our metagame how?

Dragon Claw STAB that goes unresisted against anything without steel typing, and the ability to run fireblast to cover this oversight.

[londark]

Dragon Claw STAB that goes unresisted against anything without steel typing, and the ability to run fireblast to cover this oversight.

 

He means how will it be different from the meta after the changes are done

[BenGorgon]

He means how will it be different from the meta after the changes are done

 

 

Oops, should have seen that xD

 

Namely, it allows for greater options for many Pokemon on the physical end, and reduces the reliance on Hidden Power for physical Pokemon. This is just right off. It has already been stated in the original idea of the split that more Generation 4 moves are to come in the future. I am not sure where you are getting this idea that there will not be gen 4 moves added, Excelimpulse. The split allows the way to be paved for these moves to be introduced. 

 

In the mean time, we will see a much more aggresive physical game, with less reliance on wall that simply can't stand up to a lot of threats such as:

 

Waterfall Gyarados

EPunches on Pretty Much any Physically oriented poke, allowing for good coverage without Hidden Power reliance

Shadow Ball Gengar (which can get pretty nasty)

Shadow Ball Alakazam (If you are so inclined) 

And much more.

 

I think the main goal in reducing the "gap" really though, is the reduction of Hidden Power Pokes, and the value associated with them. In this regard, I think it is one of the best choices they could have made. This is also I think where you are feeling the negative effects. I have seen your dancing about being "richer" with the implementation of new breeding, and it looks to me as though you are just sore you are losing the value on a lot of those pokemon. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by BenGorgon

[Excelimpulse]

Oops, should have seen that xD

Namely, it allows for greater options for many Pokemon on the physical end, and reduces the reliance on Hidden Power for physical Pokemon. This is just right off. It has already been stated in the original idea of the split that more Generation 4 moves are to come in the future. I am not sure where you are getting this idea that there will not be gen 4 moves added, Excelimpulse. The split allows the way to be paved for these moves to be introduced.

In the mean time, we will see a much more aggresive physical game, with less reliance on wall that simply can't stand up to a lot of threats such as:

Waterfall Gyarados
EPunches on Pretty Much any Physically oriented poke, allowing for good coverage without Hidden Power reliance
Shadow Ball Gengar (which can get pretty nasty)
Shadow Ball Alakazam (If you are so inclined)
And much more.

I think the main goal in reducing the "gap" really though, is the reduction of Hidden Power Pokes, and the value associated with them. In this regard, I think it is one of the best choices they could have made. This is also I think where you are feeling the negative effects. I have seen your dancing about being "richer" with the implementation of new breeding, and it looks to me as though you are just sore you are losing the value on a lot of those pokemon.

Agreed, but I don't want to be waiting a year for gen 4 moves when they can be added now.

[BenGorgon]

Agreed, but I don't want to be waiting a year for gen 4 moves when they can be added now.

 

I am going to take a wild guess and say, that is easier said than done. The mobs are already getting restless, but the Devs needed at least some way to mitigate the "gap" between old and new comp players. Just implementing the split is a simple and elegant way to do this, and lets the rest of the work be done at a later date with less negative repercussion than if the split were to never have taken place. Of course, this is my opinion on the matter, and I am damn hyped for the split.