General Thread: Physical/Special split testing

[Excelimpulse]

I am going to take a wild guess and say, that is easier said than done. The mobs are already getting restless, but the Devs needed at least some way to mitigate the "gap" between old and new comp players. Just implementing the split is a simple and elegant way to do this, and lets the rest of the work be done at a later date with less negative repercussion than if the split were to never have taken place. Of course, this is my opinion on the matter, and I am damn hyped for the split.

Agreed on easier said then done. But doing this to close the gap is recklessness to me. There will always be a gap between us and new players. Give it 3 months and there will be another gap. We put more time in then most. And when new players join there obviously going to be behind in an mmo and it will always be impossible to catch up.

That's kind of off topic but I agree I want the split but I want the new moves more then Anything.

[MasterExquisite]

Should be a level up move

can someone confirm if crunch is a level up move for snorlax?

[OldKeith]

Gotten around to build 2 teams in the PTS, one for OU and one for UU. In OU I noticed Dragon Claw users are rather powerful, banded stab hits very hard. The offensive pressure is so immense, that there are no easy ways to go around them. Even if you predict their attacks, there is not much you can do to fight back so I think they should get the boot if the split happened.

 

In UU, everything seems to play nicely: Vileplume is no longer mixed, is easier to defend from. Cradily is a defensive monster, but offensively it does not pose a huge risk. However, Azumarill is more powerful than ever, and with the new STAB Waterfall and coverage Ice Punch, speed band set can be devastating and tear teams apart: it can 2hko about anything with the right move barring defensive Quagsire. Hitmonlee too seems very strong and should be followed closely.

Edited January 5, 2015 by keithgalbraith

[Robofiend]

can someone confirm if crunch is a level up move for snorlax?

 

it's a later gen lvl up move, so I don't think Snorlax will have it here

[flavajabari]

DS on crunch lax

(scroll up a bit)

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/46902-hoenn-discussion-thread/?p=968395

 

In UU, everything seems to play nicely: Vileplume is no longer mixed, is easier to defend from. Cradily is a defensive monster, but offensively it does not pose a huge risk. However, Azumarill is more powerful than ever, and with the new STAB Waterfall and coverage Ice Punch, speed band set can be devastating and tear teams apart: it can 2hko about anything with the right move barring defensive Quagsire. Hitmonlee too seems very strong and should be followed closely.

 

intresting to see some UU stuff,

i guess this tones down flareon a bit to, losing its phys shadowball.

Edited January 5, 2015 by flavajabari

[OrangeManiac]

it's a later gen lvl up move, so I don't think Snorlax will have it here

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/48793-expected-hoenn-meta-changes/

 

 

The information is as follows:

 

• With the introduction of Hoenn, all Pokemon shall recieve an update to their 'Level Up' learnsets.

This update will give them access to every Level Up move they have ever been able to learn between Generations I-VI, including those available in the most recent Generation VI games. (As long as the move is available within Generation III/PokeMMO)

Snorlax will get Crunch but I find it inferior to Pursuit unless it's a Choice Band set.

[DoubleJ]

 

DS on crunch lax

(scroll up a bit)

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/46902-hoenn-discussion-thread/?p=968395

 

 

intresting to see some UU stuff,

i guess this tones down flareon a bit to, losing its phys shadowball.

 

 

Doesn't really hurt it that much. Overheat/Fire Blast still cover ghosts very well (no investment overheat ohko's Haunter), and actually opens up a spot for Quick Attack again. Return does plenty to the Psychic walls, Hypno and Grumpig. 

 

 

EDIT: To the above post, Pursuit should be on the Choice Band sets while Crunch should be on the other sets like Curse. Plays out better that way. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by DoubleJJ

[OrangeManiac]

EDIT: To the above post, Pursuit should be on the Choice Band sets while Crunch should be on the other sets like Curse. Plays out better that way. 

Yeah Crunch should also be on Curse, I agree. But I didn't really like CB Pursuit because if it mispredicts then it's locked to a low base power move.

Edit: And even if it kills anything it might work as a setup bait to who knows what.

Edited January 5, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[DoubleJ]

Yeah Crunch should also be on Curse, I agree. But I didn't really like CB Pursuit because if it mispredicts then it's locked to a low base power move.

Edit: And even if it kills anything it might work as a setup bait to who knows what.

 

The set-up bait problem is true, but you shouldn't need to mispredict with pursuit. All you basically do is chase Starmie, Gengar, and Alakazams around until you trap one. Then you just hit pursuit. If you use pursuit outside of this then you aren't doing it right. 

[OrangeManiac]

The set-up bait problem is true, but you shouldn't need to mispredict with pursuit. All you basically do is chase Starmie, Gengar, and Alakazams around until you trap one. Then you just hit pursuit. If you use pursuit outside of this then you aren't doing it right. 

Who needs CB when you have sweg

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 102-122 (75 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[DoubleJ]

Who needs CB when you have sweg

252+ Atk Snorlax Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 102-122 (75 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Please, I prefer the OHKO sweg =)

 

But yes, Pursuit above all is fuarking amazing and should honestly be banned with this update. Wrecks the best Special Sweepers in the game and hits everything else pretty darn hard too on the switch. We ain't prepped for this one. 

[RysPicz]

Someone, put some attention to Medicham. 100 BP HJK, access to Elepunches. Combined with a pursuit trapper it might be an unstoppable force.

[DoubleJ]

Someone, put some attention to Medicham. 100 BP HJK, access to Elepunches. Combined with a pursuit trapper it might be an unstoppable force.

 

High Jump Missssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[OrangeManiac]

Please, I prefer the OHKO sweg =)

 

But yes, Pursuit above all is fuarking amazing and should honestly be banned with this update. Wrecks the best Special Sweepers in the game and hits everything else pretty darn hard too on the switch. We ain't prepped for this one. 

Yeah and don't get me started how good Snorlax got after getting elemental punches that even Skarm cannot really that safely switch in. I think the thing needs to go.

+1 252+ Atk Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 72-86 (41.8 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

 

Someone, put some attention to Medicham. 100 BP HJK, access to Elepunches. Combined with a pursuit trapper it might be an unstoppable force.

 

Nice 100 BP attack you got there. It would be shame if someone used...

Protect.

Well, it's definitely OU worthy but the fact it doesn't Pursuit trap the main spec sweepers as it takes major damage from them makes it kinda pedestrian to me.

[RysPicz]

Nice 100 BP attack you got there. It would be shame if someone used...

Protect.

Well, it's definitely OU worthy but the fact it doesn't Pursuit trap the main spec sweepers as it takes major damage from them makes it kinda pedestrian to me.

252 Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 91-108 (52.9 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

ouch.

 

High Jump Missssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Hmm, it doesn't have enough BP to compensate it's miss chance.

Petition to raise the BP to 130

[OldKeith]

After playing a bit more, in my opinion, OU has the following threats that can sweep too easily in comparison to the others:

Dragon Dance Tyranitar - Stab Crunch and Rock Slide, after 2 DD it is guaranteed win.

Dragonite Choice Band - Extremespeed (+2 prio) STAB Dragon Claw Superpower Fire Blast, Sweeps too easy, forces switches out and it heavily damages defenses.

Dragon Dance Gyarados - Stab Waterfall, Crunch that OHKOs Starmie, Earthquake, a huge threat that forces switches out

Snorlax Pursuit - strong, easy to bring in, guaranteed trap

 

These are very dominant. However, banning them will stall the meta yet again, so I am not even sure what the right thing to do is anymore.

[RysPicz]

Honestly I think we aren't even ready for the split yet. We lack items, abilities, pokes from gen4 such as Bronzong, Rotoms, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Empoleon etc etc that would make all those powerful offensive threats in check. We would be stepping into an offensive metagame where all offensive powerhouses would remain banned (along with Pursuit from what I read) cuz too OP. RIP TTar, Metagross, Dragonite, Salamence, Medicham prob too, Pursuit, obviously Dugtrio. With ESpeed Drago and TTar gone (along with Mence) Heracross along with Blaziken would start killing things with STAB Reversal, so banhammer again because we don't have any priority left in gen3 outside of quick attack (lol). And obviously the offensive beast Wabba.

 

In theory it looks really bad, you know why.

 

EDIT:

Also I feel like we are skipping over full gen3. We didn't even get johto starters and we already are up to step into a gen4 mechanisms? Hell, we didn't even had a short moment to >enjoy< the full gen3 meta.

 

I'm kinda torn apart between yes and no for the split, as much as I would love it, that much I don't think PokeMMO is ready for it. It surely has to happen one day but I really doubt it should happen in the nearest future.

Edited January 5, 2015 by RysPicz

[Excelimpulse]

Honestly I think we aren't even ready for the split yet. We lack items, abilities, pokes from gen4 such as Bronzong, Rotoms, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Empoleon etc etc that would make all those powerful offensive threats in check. We would be stepping into an offensive metagame where all offensive powerhouses would remain banned (along with Pursuit from what I read) cuz too OP. RIP TTar, Metagross, Dragonite, Salamence, Medicham prob too, Pursuit, obviously Dugtrio. With ESpeed Drago and TTar gone (along with Mence) Heracross along with Blaziken would start killing things with STAB Reversal, so banhammer again because we don't have any priority left in gen3 outside of quick attack (lol). And obviously the offensive beast Wabba.

In theory it looks really bad, you know why.

EDIT:

Also I feel like we are skipping over full gen3. We didn't even get johto starters and we already are up to step into a gen4 mechanisms? Hell, we didn't even had a short moment to >enjoy< the full gen3 meta.

I'm kinda torn apart between yes and no for the split, as much as I would love it, that much I don't think PokeMMO is ready for it. It surely has to happen one day but I really doubt it should happen in the nearest future.

Amen brother. A lot of people just quitting. Their going to end up with split without the competitive community. Itd so sad to see this game die this way.

We wanted updated for how long just to get gen 3. Now we skip that to screw the metagame.

It will be like playing a shitty version of showdown. And with a lot more grinding. I'll think I'll pass on that one.

[felix]

I don't see why not we shouldn't have the split right now, we never had gen 3, we have a unique meta, when they allowed egg moves from future gens and tutors from future gens, they already started a new meta, doesn't matter with our without the split, this will never be a gen3.

 

so, you all think its better waste effort making comps that will be outdated when a "full" gen 4 arrives? Don't see a reason to wait, some pokes will be outdated/useless without some new moves, but when they comes, we all can use these ones when new moves comes.

[Excelimpulse]

I don't see why not we shouldn't have the split right now, we never had gen 3, we have a unique meta, when they allowed egg moves from future gens and tutors from future gens, they already started a new meta, doesn't matter with our without the split, this will never be a gen3.

so, you all think its better waste effort making comps that will be outdated when a "full" gen 4 arrives? Don't see a reason to wait, some pokes will be outdated/useless without some new moves, but when they comes, we all can use these ones when new moves comes.

Look at the competitive community and who all is leaving. That's why. If we rush this update Without the pokes abilities and moves a lot of things Will get banned again. I'm not dealing with that again and I don't think the community wants to either. The moves abilities pokes make things balanced and we will be unbalanced for how long then? It took 1 year + for hoenn it's still not here. Moves and everything else. Yeah I'm not waiting for that to be able to play something conoetitive. It's like people didn't learn from when you start banning the dragons it dominos. Other pokes become op. Then we get down to endure rev heracroaa and if goes then.

[MasterExquisite]

I don't see why not we shouldn't have the split right now, we never had gen 3, we have a unique meta, when they allowed egg moves from future gens and tutors from future gens, they already started a new meta, doesn't matter with our without the split, this will never be a gen3.

so, you all think its better waste effort making comps that will be outdated when a "full" gen 4 arrives? Don't see a reason to wait, some pokes will be outdated/useless without some new moves, but when they comes, we all can use these ones when new moves comes.

i have to agree. Do you really want to breed comps for another 6 months and have them not be viable after the next update? At least we can work on pokes that will be viable now and when they implement everything else

[codylramey]

Off the top of my head bans that should be made without Gen 4 Moves: Pursuit, Salamence, Tyranitar, Dugtrio.

You know they would ban lax b4 they would ban pursuit right.

[Excelimpulse]

i have to agree. Do you really want to breed comps for another 6 months and have them not be viable after the next update? At least we can work on pokes that will be viable now and when they implement everything else

And what about the ones you breed and becomes banned because the meta is unbalanced?

[MasterExquisite]

And what about the ones you breed and becomes banned because the meta is unbalanced?

not as bad and i believe that you will find out before the update if most will be banned or not

[Excelimpulse]

not as bad and i believe that you will find out before the update if most will be banned or not

Do you not remember 4-7 months ago how it dominoes. One starts to go more start to go. I believe tranzmaster even Saud that when he unbanned them. But whatever history repeats itself.