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General Thread: Physical/Special split testing

ThinkNice

By ThinkNice
in Competition Archive

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felix

felix

Posted
Posted

And what about the ones you breed and becomes banned because the meta is unbalanced?

dammit brah, are you still crying cause of your salamence?

 

The meta of this game is new, we are learning and testing stuff with all the possibilities that aren't available to the original games, pokemon are banned, unbanned, banned again and we just fucking adapt.

 

How many UU players lost their core poke when granbul was banned to OU? How many got crazy when baton pass was banned? How many got even more mad when baton pass was allowed cause the meta became better without it?

 

We all lose time and effort when some poke you made is banned, but that is what it is.

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ThinkNice
ThinkNice

Staff has proposed the option of having the gen IV split in our game. From experience I can say that this will provide a much faster paced metagame with offense being more viable. This thread serves a

DaftCoolio
DaftCoolio

gib mvp cup

DoubleJ
DoubleJ

Double's Observations from Duels with Robofiend, Senile, and Amanu   1. Pursuit on Snorlax is going to be troublesome (as if you didn't know). It almost feels like we are chasing a Skarmory around w

Excelimpulse

Excelimpulse

Posted
Posted

dammit brah, are you still crying cause of your salamence?

The meta of this game is new, we are learning and testing stuff with all the possibilities that aren't available to the original games, pokemon are banned, unbanned, banned again and we just fucking adapt.

How many UU players lost their core poke when granbul was banned to OU? How many got crazy when baton pass was banned? How many got even more mad when baton pass was allowed cause the meta became better without it?

We all lose time and effort when some poke you made is banned, but that is what it is.


No. When you banone it dominoes. It's Bern proven. Banning magneton I think is the major issue.
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Gunthug

Gunthug

Posted
Posted

No. When you banone it dominoes. It's Bern proven. Banning magneton I think is the major issue.

>when you ban one, it's dominos

>we should ban magneton though

 

How come when its the poke you want to ban, it's fine. But if it's the poke that the tier council thinks should be banned, it's a slippery slope? 

 

I've got a quote for you: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

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RysPicz

RysPicz

Posted
Posted

There aren't many assholes in the world but they are so well-placed that you encounter them on every single step.

(hue)

Did someone try battling UU in the gen4 mechanics? I'm pretty sure Scyther would drop from A+ to minimum C with this.

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felix

felix

Posted
Posted

Did someone try battling UU in the gen4 mechanics? I'm pretty sure Scyther would drop from A+ to minimum C with this.

well, it maybe fall, but i dont think that far, it still has a nice movepool to use with sub, reversal, brick break, aerial ace and so on. Ppl used to run scythers without bug moves before breeding and they are sort of common (no data for proof tho).

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felix

felix

Posted
Posted (edited)

UU Battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ubers-200265726

 

Comments about my team:

The lack of stab bug move for Pinsir is a huge los.

Cradily would be a nice wall option i was running a physical-moves-special-wall version

Electabuzz may fall some steps in the viability rank the lack of coverage is a huge loss (I was running Thunderbolt, Hp grass, Psychic and Cross Chop)

 

I may try some other combinations soon.

Edited by felix
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OldKeith

OldKeith

Posted
Posted

Noy to burst your guys' bubble but testing lower tiers is literally useless right now.

 

I doubt it. Been dying to see how NU will look like and since the update failed to deliver I decided to test out the waters.

 

 

Dude what are you doing leaving Kecleon in against Torkoal when you have a Relicanth that Torkoal can't touch? Nonetheless, looks like the split makes NU considerably more interesting.

 

 

Afraid of the burns. Yeah NU seems nicely balanced. Pidgeot is no longer OP because it lsot the physical HP Ground, Chimecho is a good defensive pokemon that can blend really well with other walls, also makes Piloswine less of a threat somehow. Water types tho, scary.

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted (edited)

Nonetheless, looks like the split makes NU considerably more interesting.

Or in other words, needs to be completely reworked. There are some of the current NUs that might need the boot after gaining an insane amount of viability (Venomoth getting 2 stabs on the special sweep set, Kingler got physical Stab, Piloswine gets physical Ice move (Icicle Spear) while some things just completely turned irrelevant like Arbok or Sableye who just got a massive nerf to CM set without elepunches.

If Crawdaunt was kind of an edge Pokemon before, then 2 physical stabs changed that story. Other Hoenn stuff looks pretty fine.

Also the fact stuff like Banette and Muk might be able to come to NUs quite easily after turning to quite worthless with the losses of stabs and stuff so the whole tier needs to be revaluated since there can be Pokemon that by their existence made some other Pokemon not to turn overpowering or stuff like that.

Edited by OrangeManiac
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BenGorgon

BenGorgon

Posted
Posted (edited)

I doubt it. Been dying to see how NU will look like and since the update failed to deliver I decided to test out the waters.


Again, we can't start to speculate. The only tier generally defined on its' own merit is OU, everything beyond that comes from the top down.

Discussion on what should be OU would be the most effective way to progress imo.

On the topic of Snorlax, even if pursuit had a complex ban on the lard, now it not only can wall most special attackers outright, it can OHKO a lot with crunch. I am on my pad, bit calcs incoming, I personally think it is a pretty centralizing factor. Edited by BenGorgon
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Senile

Senile

Posted
Posted

Or in other words, needs to be completely reworked. There are some of the current NUs that might need the boot after gaining an insane amount of viability (Venomoth getting 2 stabs on the special sweep set, Kingler got physical Stab, Piloswine gets physical Ice move (Icicle Spear) while some things just completely turned irrelevant like Arbok or Sableye who just got a massive nerf to CM set without elepunches.

You would do well to not underestimate the insane power of Spooky Ball m8. It'll scare you solid.

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Robofiend

Robofiend

Posted
Posted

Or in other words, needs to be completely reworked. There are some of the current NUs that might need the boot after gaining an insane amount of viability (Venomoth getting 2 stabs on the special sweep set, Kingler got physical Stab, Piloswine gets physical Ice move (Icicle Spear) while some things just completely turned irrelevant like Arbok or Sableye who just got a massive nerf to CM set without elepunches.

Also the fact stuff like Banette and Muk might be able to come to NUs quite easily after turning to quite worthless with the losses of stabs and stuff so the whole tier needs to be revaluated since there can be Pokemon that by their existence made some other Pokemon not to turn overpowering or stuff like that.

 

 

Imo Sableye got a huge boost with Shadow Ball: it hits everything in NU neutrally except Normal types who conveniently hate getting burned by Will-O-Wisp. With good team support Mono-attacking Sub/CM/Recover Sableye could be a total menace. 

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OldKeith

OldKeith

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Posted

Imo Sableye got a huge boost with Shadow Ball: it hits everything in NU neutrally except Normal types who conveniently hate getting burned by Will-O-Wisp. With good team support Mono-attacking Sub/CM/Recover Sableye could be a total menace. 

 

For now, Sableye does not have access to Will O Wisp. CM Sableye is not great because it needs many CMs before it can threaten, giving you enough time to status it and then stall.

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OldKeith

OldKeith

Posted
Posted

How would this go? Assuming it forces a switch out, it will sub while the new pokemon comes in. So it is one turn ahead, in which it can CM while losing the sub.

 

+1 (Bold 0 SAtk) Sableye Shadow Ball vs...

 

(252 HP 200+ Sdef) Swalot 20.8% - 25.1% - Swalot is faster, breaks the substitute, statuses.

(252 HP 0 Sdef) Tropius 26.7% - 32% - Tropius is faster, breaks the substitute and statuses. Oh, and I got WW too anyway.

(0 HP) Cacturne 24.8% - 29% - Cacturne breaks the sub and can leech seed

(252 HP 252+ Sdef) Roselia 25.5% - 30.6% - Roselia breaks the sub and can seed, toxic, sleep (risky)

(252 HP) Lairon 24.6% - 28.7% - This one is slower, it can Roar it out.

 

On top of these, you have some normal pokemon with high usage, such as Kecleon (you will see), Pidgeot, Raticate.

 

On top of these, you have Plusle/Minun or Dewgong, again with high usage, which can encore.

 

I think Sableye is great but it will never be an unstopable force, such as the Dragons are in a split OU.

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Noad

Noad

Posted
Posted

With regards to NU, I had a discussion with OldKeith and OrangeManiac this evening and there would be some changes made to the tier if the split was implemented (pending approval from NikhilR). This is mostly moving some stuff up that is obviously ridiculously OP in light of said split and some Pokemon might be suspect tested also. 

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted

I don't think Shadow Ball is that viable for Sableye other than being the overall hardest attack due to stab. Shadow Ball's coverage in NU is bad since the only stuff it would hit super effectively that's worth a mention are Chimecho and Banette, assuming it is found to be worth NU tier (which I think it is). I mean, to begin with.. Sableye always had hit like a baby with its Calm Mind set. The fact not enough stuff can 2HKO it made it be able to Calm Mind up with Recover to such insane buffs and then cause the havoc. With Psychic, Sball and HP something CM set sure is good, however Sableye can only pick 2 offensive moves as it needs Recover so either way Sable's offense with Calm Mind set is really limited and not even the broken factor in the first place.

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Gunthug

Gunthug

Posted
Posted

Might as well just introduce all the gen 4 moves, no point in just choosing a couple that we think are necessary. Flareon could really use a phys fire move, we don't have a good physical ice pool, dark needs a special move, etc etc. Eventually once we covered everything that "needed" another move we'd be halfway through the gen 4 movelist hah

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londark

londark

Posted
Posted

Thoughts on Payback? As things are right now there are still some pokes that required Hidden Power to hit Ghosts/Psychic types that didn't really get anything as good as that, Payback covers a little this problem for pokes like Machamp and Haryama, or Poliwrath and some others altho not as good as on them 

 

also:

 

Might as well just introduce all the gen 4 moves, no point in just choosing a couple that we think are necessary. Flareon could really use a phys fire move, we don't have a good physical ice pool, dark needs a special move, etc etc. Eventually once we covered everything that "needed" another move we'd be halfway through the gen 4 movelist hah

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