NU Viability Thread

[DoubleJ]

Xatu S rank. One of faster pokes in the tier at bse 95
Insane move pool and can be diverse with decent bulk and wish possibility and early bird.
After a cm several counters may fall because of gigs drain recovery and increased sp def

 

Without Fearow to guarantee a way to revenge kill it at full health, Xatu may be able to nab 2 kills a game without extensive team building against it

[DaftCoolio]

sneasel gets close

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xatu: 234-276 (86 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

[DoubleJ]

sneasel gets close

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xatu: 234-276 (86 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

 

Good catch, but you should probably be running Jolly Sneasel to outpace Electabuzz and Scyther, as well as avoiding a speed tie with Ninetales.

 

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xatu: 114-134 (80.8 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Also, both Sneasel and Fearow (RIP) fail to OHKO a full-health Xatu with a Pursuit trap, but unlike with Fearow, Xatu can stay in on the predicted Pursuit and OHKO in return with a +1 Signal Beam (If it obtained a CM without accruing damage; likely scenario is that Sneasel switched in on a predicted Psychic but Xatu CM'd).

 

Sneasel, like Fearow, packs a OHKO STAB move though in Ice Punch so... yay!

 

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xatu: 206-246 (146 - 174.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Went way too far into depth on that, Sneasel is a good revenge killer against Xatu cuz it will likely have taken at least 20% damage facing and beating another pokemon. Sneasel comes in after the user's pokemon is dead, spams Pursuit, and kills the Xatu with ease (inb4 Endure-Salac). 

[OrangeManiac]

Already had Xatu at S.

[KaynineXL]

How does ice beam mantine do again it?

[gbwead]

With Hyper Voice and Uproar going through substitute, are pokemons like Girafarig, Exploud, Mr.Mime and Electrode more viable?

[OrangeManiac]

With Hyper Voice and Uproar going through substitute, are pokemons like Girafarig, Exploud, Mr.Mime and Electrode more viable?

Uproar is an awful move. What comes to Hyper Voice, it makes Giraf and Exploud slightly more viable because STAB. But only slightly.

[gbwead]

It could also potentially mean the end of Diglett sub/reversal set and it could also discourage Belly Drum users from running Substitute (no salac berry then and only sitrus/lum berry).

 

Edit:

I haven't seen a lot of Perish Song Lapras, and I guess there is very little chance this set is viable now that ghosts are immune to Block. Misdreavus is quite popular right now anyways.

Edited September 7, 2015 by lamerb

[OrangeManiac]

Choice Band Diglett to me was always superior. Much superior.

What comes to Belly Drummers, you're a bit exaggerating it. I can just claim Hyper Voice is not worth running unless it is a STAB. The only situation where Hyper Voice has any effect on Belly Drums effectiveness is when a Girafarig or Exploud switches in after a turn opposing Belly Drummer used Substitute. In a situation where Belly Drummer Substitutes against anything else, after the Belly Drum Salac activates and sweep happens. I doubt Girafarigs and Explouds really want to switch in on Poliwrath, though. I don't think that much changed. I guess it gives that certain uncertainty value that someone could troll you with Hyper Voice but I honestly think it's worth using when it's a STAB move.

[DoubleJ]

Really excited to see where Cradily finds itself in the tier, or if it will prove to be too much. I saw some serious damage coming from a +2 Curse Cradily with Bullet Seed and Rock Slide. Not to mention the instant recover, but holy fuark instant recovery!

 

lf Toxic

[KaynineXL]

Really excited to see where Cradily finds itself in the tier, or if it will prove to be too much. I saw some serious damage coming from a +2 Curse Cradily with Bullet Seed and Rock Slide. Not to mention the instant recover, but holy fuark instant recovery!

 

lf Toxic

I'm predicting it being too much. The one thing Cradily was missing was duel stabs.. and now it has it >.>

 

[spoiler] Should I say 2 good duel stabs. Giga was pretty meh[/spoiler]

Edited September 7, 2015 by KaynineXL

[BurntZebra]

Grass/rock is still missing some coverage and recover cradily is still really weak to status moves. If cradily wasn't banworthy before update, I don't think bullet seed changed much.

[gbwead]

Grass/Rock is amazing coverage and the pressure is considerable.

Toxic kills cradily way too slowly. When the dmg becomes too much, Cradily can switch out, heal bell and start over. 

 

NU does not have Breloom to handle Cradily.

Mawile, Aggron and Nidoqueen work well against the Grass/Rock coverage, but they are crap against the EQ/RS coverage :(

 

I think it will be centralizing to some extant. A solid S rank imo. We all know how dangerous a special def wall with curse can be.

Edited September 8, 2015 by lamerb

[DoubleJ]

Grass/rock is still missing some coverage and recover cradily is still really weak to status moves. If cradily wasn't banworthy before update, I don't think bullet seed changed much.

 

I'd beg to argue, having twin stabs that are both boosted by Curse is pretty scary. While it is definitely susceptible to burn or toxic, it has some serious staying power outside of that.

The thing about Cradily is that it just really doesn't fear many attacks from a defensive standpoint, and it has free reign to deal some damage. Gaining STAB Physical Bullet Seed is truly scary, especially to those that take neutral damage. And let's not forget, Bullet Seed can result in a 125 base power STAB move that can be Curse boosted. 

 

Truly beast and I can't wait to make one. 

[gbwead]

I can't wait to make one. 

[spoiler]And then banned.

[spoiler]pretty decent in UU anyways[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Edited September 8, 2015 by lamerb

[KaynineXL]

Grass/rock is still missing some coverage and recover cradily is still really weak to status moves. If cradily wasn't banworthy before update, I don't think bullet seed changed much.

The thing is things like aggron that do come in on bullet seed/rs are not safe because the cradily could quite easily be running eq. Sure you can scout for it but you could just be wasting time while it sets up curse.

 

Sure you can toxic it. I think guts Pokemon would be great with a Cradily, its literally free status. Let's get the rats out boys.(or machokes if you want.)

 

edit:

Just like to add, Cradily gaining all these buffs. Bullet seed, and let's not forget Absol which was one poke that forced Cradily out with that 130 base attack super power.

Edited September 8, 2015 by KaynineXL

[BurntZebra]

The thing is things like aggron that do come in on bullet seed/rs are not safe because the cradily could quite easily be running eq. Sure you can scout for it but you could just be wasting time while it sets up curse.

 

Sure you can toxic it. I think guts Pokemon would be great with a Cradily, its literally free status. Let's get the rats out boys.(or machokes if you want.)

not really the end of the world if aggron comes in vs an earthquake.

 

4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 80-96 (54.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

but obv should avoid it/scout for it, which should be fairly easy enough, ie don't switch in aggron vs cradily when its cradily vs ampharos

[KaynineXL]

not really the end of the world if aggron comes in vs an earthquake.

 

4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 80-96 (54.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

but obv should avoid it/scout for it, which should be fairly easy enough, ie don't switch in aggron vs cradily when its cradily vs ampharos

Think you'll need Iron tail on Aggron to beat Cradily with EQ. Iron tail is so unreliable, and it don't even have a good chance at OHKO. The Aggon vs Cradily is very sketchy for Aggron imo. That said.. I would say most will use Bullet seed+RS.

 

252+ Atk Aggron Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 170-204 (88 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

[BurntZebra]

Think you'll need Iron tail on Aggron to beat Cradily with EQ. Iron tail is so unreliable, and it don't even have a good chance at OHKO. The Aggon vs Cradily is very sketchy for Aggron imo. That said.. I would say most will use Bullet seed+RS.

 

252+ Atk Aggron Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 170-204 (88 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Cradily: 204-242 (105.6 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

a bit safer for me. i don't really see a point in running non cb aggron, just too weak. 

[Robofiend]

LF update

 

Lately I've been seeing Haunter do a lot of damage, it's probably S Rank material with those stabs, Shadow Ball hax, near perfect coverage and almost limitless movepool.

 

I'm questioning how Flareon got to A+ rank - while it's good it just doesn't get used very much or threaten many pokes. Being slow and having bad defense is a bane in a game where EQ is super effective against pretty much everything except Blastoise.

 

Sableye doesn't get enough love for simultaneously providing some support against Xatu/Grumpig with Faint Attack, stopping Normal spam, having insta heal, and access to one-off moves like Psych Up. Granted, it'd be a lot better if Amph/Blast weren't so common.

 

Gorebyss deserves some A/A+ love as well - once you set up that late game Rain Dance everything but Mantine (who also should get a shout out if it weren't for Ampharos) is going to be scared. Solid defs as well for a strong sweeper.

 

I also feel like Golduck deserves some love, again it's late game abilities are scary and it hits reasonably hard with STAB Surf. The only fear is taking Toxic on the switch in from Blastoise.

 

Already mentioned Pinsir once, it's probably more A rank than S since Blastoise is around now, but its physical bulk is pretty mighty (enough to live a non-CB Scyther Aerial Ace) and fast Quake with Access to QA makes it a pretty balanced poke in terms of performance against offense and defense.

 

Roselia is another missing link here: while it sometimes struggles with Blast/Amph it can also abuse more stall-oriented variants by absorbing Toxic (or even Twave if you run NC) and being one of the tier's only Spikers. While it looks pretty flimsy it can survive stab Special Fire attacks from Ninetales or Flareon and even lure counters like Scyther and Fire types in with that STAB Sludge Bomb. It definitely needs some support to work effectively as a spiker, but Spikes can make a big difference against offensive teams since they use leftovers less often and Spikes often mean the difference between X% to OHKO and the guaranteed OHKO. 

[DoubleJ]

Agree Haunter should be at least A+. It hits everything so incredibly hard and if behind a sub with a weakened Ampharos it can wreck house. 

 

 

EDIT: Get a kill and a CB Pursuit Scyther can end its life though. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by DoubleJ

[Robofiend]

EDIT: Get a kill and a CB Pursuit Scyther can end its life though. 

 

That's why you run Endure/Salac 

[OrangeManiac]

Robo just used Revive on this thread.


Flareon is really diverse Pokemon, it is the best cleric in the tier in my opinion which already tells enough about the viability of Wish + Heal Bell users in NU tier. Okay its defenses overall aren't insane but the offensive presence buys free turns for Flareon. Also offensively Flareon is really good as well. It's one of the main special defensive switch-ins in the tier and one of the only Pokemon that beats MissyD as its down. I personally find A+ justifiable for Flareon.

[Robofiend]

Robo just used Revive on this thread.


Flareon is really diverse Pokemon, it is the best cleric in the tier in my opinion which already tells enough about the viability of Wish + Heal Bell users in NU tier. Okay its defenses overall aren't insane but the offensive presence buys free turns for Flareon. Also offensively Flareon is really good as well. It's one of the main special defensive switch-ins in the tier and one of the only Pokemon that beats MissyD as its down. I personally find A+ justifiable for Flareon.

 

I dunno, we have stuff like Lickitung that resists pretty much everything and can be a cleric, although almost no one uses it because of its lack of offense and the cost of buying all of those BP moves. 

[BurntZebra]

I dunno, we have stuff like Lickitung that resists pretty much everything and can be a cleric, although almost no one uses it because of its lack of offense and the cost of buying all of those BP moves. 

so many resists!

 

Also paying 45k BP is a bit of a hassle to actually use lickitung and has coverage issues if it runs wish/protect/heal bell. Even 2 coverage moves has a lot of flaws, either steel or ghost types.