Do not allow the replay system until the tournament is finished!

[KaynineXL]

The fact you can literally watch a good bit of the game, and get a good understanding of your opponents team within the 10 minutes timer is a big flaw in my opinion.

I suggest the replay system of a tournament should be allowed once the tournament is finished.

That is all.


EDIT: My bad, I mean the replay system, not spectating lol.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Pereiraa
Please don't double post.

[BurntZebra]

Hide the bracket and delay the replay. There is literally no argument for it to happen any other way.

Literally no argument? I can think of a few.

 

As a spectator, it's annoying as hell to not be able to see who is playing who/who might be playing later on in a tournament. If I don't see any interesting matches that might happen later in the bracket, I won't even bother sticking around for a tournament. I'm not sure of any other competitive game where they have hidden brackets either. Know why? Because it screws over the spectators and scouting isn't that big of a deal/it doesn't even prevent scouting. 

 

I mean removing the replay until the tournament over probably isn't out of the question, but it doesn't really fix the supposed scouting issue. Scouting is definitely possible, especially in a bigger team, even with a hidden bracket, or just knowledge about your opponents. The replays also screw over the spectators as they might want to watch a round 1 match while the boring semifinals matches are going on. 

[codylramey]

Both.

 

One of the major complaints is the lack of atmosphere in tournaments.

 

Hiding the bracket and disabling replays until the tournament is over is a really good way to discourage spectators.

Nobody is able to come into a tourney mid-way and have any idea what is going on, letalone those who have started watching from the beginning.

 

I think there are better ways to address the issue without hurting the user friendliness of the system, although most would require a rewrite and likely would not be worth it.

Have the past match ups listed but not in the order they appear in the bracket. Therefore we will know who has fought who but not be able to know who is going to fight next.

 

How is hiding replays discouraging to spectators? They can still spectate matches as they happen. Thats all we had before.

 

 

Literally no argument? I can think of a few.

 

As a spectator, it's annoying as hell to not be able to see who is playing who/who might be playing later on in a tournament. If I don't see any interesting matches that might happen later in the bracket, I won't even bother sticking around for a tournament. I'm not sure of any other competitive game where they have hidden brackets either. Know why? Because it screws over the spectators and scouting isn't that big of a deal/it doesn't even prevent scouting. 

 

I mean removing the replay until the tournament over probably isn't out of the question, but it doesn't really fix the supposed scouting issue. Scouting is definitely possible, especially in a bigger team, even with a hidden bracket, or just knowledge about your opponents. The replays also screw over the spectators as they might want to watch a round 1 match while the boring semifinals matches are going on. 

Knowing who is in the tournament will tell you if there could be any interesting match ups in the future. If i go to an OU tournament and kingbowser, fraggs, raiidn, are all in it i can be fairly sure two of those guys are going to fight eventually. And it does prevent scouting, not 100% but enough to where it would be worth it. If you dont know who you are facing next counterteaming at the very least becomes impossible.

[Lilyfromanimove]

well, I disagree.

 

this is a tournament, and its basically held in big arenas, and so similar to sports events, you opponents will try to watch and analyse your games. It's a part of tacticical gameplay.

[codylramey]

In sports you cant counter team. Thats a bad comparison.

[BurntZebra]

In sports you cant counter team. Thats a bad comparison.

You definitely can, but it's more subtle. It's not like you make a new team of players, but you analyze the other team's plays and make new plays based off of that. In some sports it's a bit easier to prepare, like in baseball if you know the pitcher loves throwing change ups, then you prepare before hand to hit them.

[gbwead]

Scouting an opponent is not as bad as counter teambuilding against him. Analysing the playstyle of your opponent is fine imo. However, when it comes to counter teambuilding, veterans just have an unfair advantage thanks to the replays during the tournament. New players don't have the ressources we do and could easily be taken out without being able to do anything about it. This creates a rift in our player base where new players struggle despite their skill level and where veterans abuse the replay system during tournaments by counter teambuilding with the help of teamates. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by lamerb

[codylramey]

I gave a suggestion that nerfs the ability to scout w/o nerfing peoples ability to know what is going on in the middle of the tournament (which was the only good argument against secrete bracket). There has yet to be a good argument for not nerfing scouting, b-b-but other games has scouting is a bad argumet, and there is a good argument for nerfing scouting.

[BurntZebra]

Scouting an opponent is not as bad as counter teambuilding against him. Analysing the playstyle of your opponent is fine imo. However, when it comes to counter teambuilding, veterans just have an unfair advantage thanks to the replays during the tournament. New players don't have the ressources we do and could easily be taken out without being able to do anything about it. This creates a rift in our player base where new players struggle despite their skill level and where veterans abuse the replay system during tournaments by counter teambuilding with the help of teamates.

I mean amateur comp players are at an inherent disadvantage when they have less comps to use, regardless of scouting or not. I doubt many players have won a tournament just running the same team every round, because even if you make the perfect plays every move, rng or matchup can just cause you to lose.

Amateur players can still access the replay system so that isn't where the disadvantage comes in, but when big teams with 15+ players on at one time can scout ahead/watch replays, that creates more of a rift than other factors imo.

@cody

I don't get why you think disabling replays during the tournament would accomplish anything. I'd say I know roughly what 80% of the good comp players out there are going to run, or at least what play style they typically run. I could also just have a team mate scout a potential opponent while I duel. I don't really think you've made that good of an argument either. Also there's a reason no one complains about scouting in smogon/showdown/VGC, because it's a part of Pokemon and it doesn't take a pro to counter team or avoid counter teaming.

[gbwead]

I mean amateur comp players are at an inherent disadvantage when they have less comps to use, regardless of scouting or not. I doubt many players have won a tournament just running the same team every round, because even if you make the perfect plays every move, rng or matchup can just cause you to lose.

This applies for any duel. It has nothing to do with playing the same team over and over. It has happened several time in the past where a player runs one team during an entire tournament and win. It might not be likely, but it is far from impossible. 

I am also not talking about amateurs comp players, but casuals comp players.

 

Amateur players can still access the replay system so that isn't where the disadvantage comes in, but when big teams with 15+ players on at one time can scout ahead/watch replays, that creates more of a rift than other factors imo.

Those are 2 different disadvantages:

1. Being able to spectate duels means big and well organised teams can scout for their players. This is a compromise in order to allow tournament to publicly entertaining. There is pretty much nothing that can be done about that.
2. Being able to watch a replay during a tournament makes the first disadvantage way worst. People will not watch the tournament live, they will watch past duels instead of watching current ones. It is just completly unnecessary.

Scouting and counter teambuilding is not something enjoyable for anyone. We have to allow scouting and counter teambuilding in order to have publicly entertaining tournaments. However, replays during tournaments only hurt the entertainment factor of tournaments: more skilless wins based on counter teambuilding and less incentive to watch current duels.

 

I don't get why you think disabling replays during the tournament would accomplish anything. I'd say I know roughly what 80% of the good comp players out there are going to run, or at least what play style they typically run.

That is great for you Zebra. The fact that you don't need to watch replays to know what you know doesn't apply to all of us though. This is also not a reason to keep replays during tournaments; it sounds more that you don't care whether or not replays are acessible or not.

 

 I could also just have a team mate scout a potential opponent while I duel.

Exactly. Even die hard scouters are going to be able to scout without the replays during tournament. Why would we want to make their life easier though?

 

Also there's a reason no one complains about scouting in smogon/showdown/VGC, because it's a part of Pokemon and it doesn't take a pro to counter team or avoid counter teaming.

We are not on Showdown. This is not a simulator. If no one complains about scouting on Showdown, it's because it's inevitable. It doesn't have to be that way on PokeMMO though.

[KaynineXL]

I don't get why you think disabling replays during the tournament would accomplish anything. I'd say I know roughly what 80% of the good comp players out there are going to run, or at least what play style they typically run. 

I feel like this part is totally irrelevant to the argument.

[axx]

This is really a difficult topic, in one hand you have the anti scouting arguments which are really valid. But in the other hand try to look at it from a spectator perspective.

 

If I, for some reason, were to start spectating a tournament in the final rounds, and I see a match with a player I know vs an unknown player, I would like to check out a previous match of the opponent, be it for 10min at least. Just for background curiosity.

 

Other one, if I'm spectating from the beginning, I tend to select the matches with the best players because those tend to be entertaining. But just as you are paying attention to a branch of the tourney a literallywho shrekts the other branch. And now this player is facing frags on the final. You surely will find yourself surprised and will want to spectate this unknown player previous matches to know what kind of sorcery he is using.

 

These are lame examples at best, if you will. But having all the information available as the tournament unfolds enables all these small things that make the system enjoyable, It's all down to user friendliness as DS pointed out previously.

Edited April 5, 2016 by axx

[Arimanius]

This is really a difficult topic, in one hand you have the anti scouting arguments which are really valid. But in the other hand try to look at it from a spectator perspective.

 

If I, for some reason, were to start spectating a tournament in the final rounds, and I see a match with a player I know vs an unknown player, I would like to check out a previous match of the opponent, be it for 10min at least. Just for background curiosity.

 

Other one, if I'm spectating from the beginning, I tend to select the matches with the best players because those tend to be entertaining. But just as you are paying attention to a branch of the tourney a literallywho shrekts the other branch. And now this player is facing frags on the final. You surely will find yourself surprised and will want to spectate this unknown player previous matches to know what kind of sorcery he is using.

 

These are lame examples at best, if you will. But having all the information available as the tournament unfolds enables all these small things that make the system enjoyable, It's all down to user friendliness as DS pointed out previously.

 

Yeah but u can just wait for the tournament to finish and watch all the replays u want of how the someone u know haxed his way to the finale or whatever but in the meantime watch the actual battles that are going on in that moment, just saying. I agree with gb point 100%

[codylramey]

I mean amateur comp players are at an inherent disadvantage when they have less comps to use, regardless of scouting or not. I doubt many players have won a tournament just running the same team every round, because even if you make the perfect plays every move, rng or matchup can just cause you to lose.

Amateur players can still access the replay system so that isn't where the disadvantage comes in, but when big teams with 15+ players on at one time can scout ahead/watch replays, that creates more of a rift than other factors imo.

@cody

I don't get why you think disabling replays during the tournament would accomplish anything. I'd say I know roughly what 80% of the good comp players out there are going to run, or at least what play style they typically run. I could also just have a team mate scout a potential opponent while I duel. I don't really think you've made that good of an argument either. Also there's a reason no one complains about scouting in smogon/showdown/VGC, because it's a part of Pokemon and it doesn't take a pro to counter team or avoid counter teaming.

I remember a tournament where i had to wait a long time for my opponent to come face me. Why did i have to wait a long time? Was my opponent in another match? No actually he was done with his match before me, so what was he doing? He was watching the person he would most likely face next in the line up battle. Adding replay capability makes this 100 times easier, especially if you can skip turns n such (idk what replay is actually like). If you... erm... i mean my opponent at that tourny had started spectating in the middle of the match then he wouldnt have his opponents whole team. But given 10 min btwn rounds and replay capabilities then getting the entire team becomes a lot easier. Having replays during tournies just gives scouter another tool to use to scout. And scouting is not healthy for a competitive game. You should not be able to get the drop on your opponent because you scouted them. Especially since the person you are scouting probably didnt get to scout you. That starts the match off on an uneven playing ground right there. A truly competitive match would be one that both opponents start on as even of a playing ground as their skills allow them to be. So lets not give people any more tools to make that not happen.

 

Scouting is not apart of pokemon, and even if it was it doesnt make it good. Salamence is apart of pokemon, does that mean we should be able to use him in all tournaments? Hell tiers arent apart of pokemon and we use them to make the game more competitive. So that argument is in no way shape or form valid. If we can do something to make the game more competitive then we should as long as it doesnt disproportionately negatively effect another aspect of the game. Taking away replays during tournies, and using the semi blind bracket system i suggested above accomplishes just that.

Edited April 5, 2016 by codylramey

[Lilyfromanimove]

if you don't like counter teaming then the system would have to allow you to only take 6 pokemon registered which are not allowed to be changed. So basically they get locked during the tournament.

 

That creates scouting but prevents counterteams, because you can only work out tactics with the pokemon you have registered and people need to prepare for all possibilities. That also reduces the gap between newer players with less pokemon and those with a lot. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Lilyfromanimove

[codylramey]

if you don't like counter teaming then the system would have to allow you to only take 6 pokemon registered which are not allowed to be changed. So basically they get locked during the tournament.

 

That creates scouting but prevents counterteams, because you can only work out tactics with the pokemon you have registered and people need to prepare for all possibilities. That also reduces the gap between newer players with less pokemon and those with a lot. 

The only problems with this is that there could be holes in your team you need to compensate for. I know i will find holes in my team sometimes and have to change up next round. I could see this working if you were allowed to register like 6 different teams or something. Then the only way you can counter team is by picking the best team you had already registered for the tourny and go with that.

Edited April 6, 2016 by codylramey

[axx]

I know i will find holes in my team sometimes and have to change up next round. I could see this working if you were allowed to register like 6 different teams or something.

This implies that you knew your team had holes from the beginning, hence the need for 6 different teams. Get a better team.

 

Tho limiting the players to use a team per tourney would create an even more stagnant metagame as there wouldn't be any adaptation as the tourney runs, only until the next torunament takes place.

 

edit: matchmaking serves to patch up for this con I guess.

Edited April 6, 2016 by axx

[Kurodashi]

Also from a spectators point of view, who wants to watch a tournament where the participants use the same team over and over again.

[axx]

Also from a spectators point of view, who wants to watch a tournament where the participants use the same team over and over again.

The plays. Most players will use a very similar team/core anyways.

 

Maybe this single team thing would work VGC style, register 8 and pick 6 each round or something.

Edited April 6, 2016 by axx

[Kurodashi]

I just don't like the idea of limiting players to a few pokemon to use. Feels like we are limting players with a lot pokemon for the sake of those who don't have access to those said pokemon.

 

Also wouldn't be really motivating to look for new playstyles once you have a team that works since you would only be able to use one team anyways.

 

On topic I still think replays should be only accessable after a tournament is over but I think leaving the bracket as it is now is fine.

[Lilyfromanimove]

The only problems with this is that there could be holes in your team you need to compensate for. I know i will find holes in my team sometimes and have to change up next round. I could see this working if you were allowed to register like 6 different teams or something. Then the only way you can counter team is by picking the best team you had already registered for the tourny and go with that.

 

well sure it will change the way how teams will be set up, and it will again bring back some of the mainfeature of pokemon where systems were a bit more stone paper scissor like. You have to calculate what wekanesses to add and what strength. And surely also consider what you expect your opponents to bring with. Or allow soem spare pokemon like axx said, 8 in total to choose form.

 

 

 

Tho limiting the players to use a team per tourney would create an even more stagnant metagame as there wouldn't be any adaptation as the tourney runs, only until the next torunament takes place.

 

 

 

could happen, but without the most legenadaries missing I wthink some of the most meta metas are already out.

 

You could also allow, some stages ina tournament, so that the team cna be changed from the quarter finals, but has to stay until finales. So there is one last chance to change a team, but since all get the possibility at this time to do so, you won't exactly know what the others may bring if they alter too. But this bring back some of the issues of causals and lesser available pokemon.

 

Also, pokemmo has various leagues so why shouldn't various systems exist? It's more important to adress and keep the game interresting for various players. So a altering team and fixed team tournament could exist as well

 

 

 

I just don't like the idea of limiting players to a few pokemon to use. Feels like we are limting players with a lot pokemon for the sake of those who don't have access to those said pokemon.

 

Also wouldn't be really motivating to look for new playstyles once you have a team that works since you would only be able to use one team anyways.

 

On topic I still think replays should be only accessable after a tournament is over but I think leaving the bracket as it is now is fine.

 

after the tournament is before the tournament, also the tema will not always be the same, it smostlikely that they will alter given there wouldnt be a specific metateam outclassing all other alternates. You will know after the first tournament which palystyle will exist, and you may want t counter them next tournament. Or probably already prepare a counter for what you expect to be acounter.

 

I also think the mass of palyers will mostly be those with less than those with many pokemon. So catering only the top elite palyers that had time to gather all the various metapokemon isn't a good way to go. F2p games need to live from the mass populating it and also spending money. You need to cater everyone a bit, and so altering rules or having different tournaments will provide something for various parts of the playerbase is a good way to try.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Lilyfromanimove

[FNTCZ]

1st of all. Randomize the bracket each round... just... please. i honestly don't know why this isn't a thing already.

[BurntZebra]

This applies for any duel. It has nothing to do with playing the same team over and over. It has happened several time in the past where a player runs one team during an entire tournament and win. It might not be likely, but it is far from impossible. 

I am also not talking about amateurs comp players, but casuals comp players.

 

Those are 2 different disadvantages:

1. Being able to spectate duels means big and well organised teams can scout for their players. This is a compromise in order to allow tournament to publicly entertaining. There is pretty much nothing that can be done about that.
2. Being able to watch a replay during a tournament makes the first disadvantage way worst. People will not watch the tournament live, they will watch past duels instead of watching current ones. It is just completly unnecessary.

Scouting and counter teambuilding is not something enjoyable for anyone. We have to allow scouting and counter teambuilding in order to have publicly entertaining tournaments. However, replays during tournaments only hurt the entertainment factor of tournaments: more skilless wins based on counter teambuilding and less incentive to watch current duels.

 

That is great for you Zebra. The fact that you don't need to watch replays to know what you know doesn't apply to all of us though. This is also not a reason to keep replays during tournaments; it sounds more that you don't care whether or not replays are acessible or not.

 

Exactly. Even die hard scouters are going to be able to scout without the replays during tournament. Why would we want to make their life easier though?

 

We are not on Showdown. This is not a simulator. If no one complains about scouting on Showdown, it's because it's inevitable. It doesn't have to be that way on PokeMMO though.

When was the last time someone ran the same team the entire tournament? It's usually unlikely as in all tiers (OU and NU specifically) have a lot of potential match up issues. Ou, there is no way you can even try to prepare for every threat. If you run offense in order to not get screwed by ursaring, you might get swept by something like espeed linoone or belly drum charizard. Or you might prepare aerodactyl, but your opponent runs magneton+block toxic metagross which eliminates skarmory and slowbro respectively. Casual comp players are pretty much equal to amateur comp players as far as I'm concerned. Neither have really put forth the effort into the game to get enough comps to counterteam/avoid being counter teamed/have several teams in general. Both are at a huge disadvantage when playing in tournaments because they lack experience or teambuilding.

 

It doesn't really take a huge team to spectate 2 matches of your future opponent. I agree that big teams have an advantage, especially if its a hidden bracket scenario, as you can basically guarantee a scout on your future opponent. I don't really get why you need to watch them live though. There's absolutely no environment to talk in. The replay system still gives the whole time it took to make a play. It's not like they're watching old replays the entire tournament either, it usually takes like 5 minutes to get 4-6 of your opponent's team, so it's not really that big of a deal. 

 

Ok so you get that big teams have an inherent advantage with scouting, but then you want to further increase their advantage by disallowing everyone else from scouting via replays. If you'd rather spend 8 minutes watching a replay to find out what your opponent is running, rather than building another team, then I don't really see it as an advantage at that point, since the opponent could just change their team and your pathetic 2 minute counter team is wrecked as soon as the opponent runs different pokemon. 

 

I don't really need the replays since if I really wanted to scout all my opponents, I could either just ask a team mate to spectate the match, or open up another laptop and spectate from an alt, but I'm usually too lazy to do either of those. I assume most players have a rough idea of what worthy opponents are running. Like frags doesn't just go like hm I'm playing forfiter, better prepare for hardcore stall, because it's not necessary. He prepares for drum zard/drum linoone/trapinch/jolteon etc. 

 

Die hard scouters will be on an equal playing field if EVERYONE can scout as well. If everyone chooses to watch replays is another question, but at least they have the ability to. It's also pretty easy to scout, especially if you're not even in the tournament, so it's not like the die hard scouters really need it to be easier.

 

Ah right, this isn't showdown. How could I forget? An incomplete meta with balance issues and huge gaps between old and new players. This is still a simulator though, since we're not really playing on our gameboys with fire red/leaf green. Showdown scouting is far from inevitable. I mean if they really thought scouting was a problem, they could just remove the replay system or make the tournaments have hidden brackets. 

 

I feel like this part is totally irrelevant to the argument.

I'm just saying that most of the comp players that somewhat regularly participate already know what their opponents will be running roughly. If these changes are supposed to prevent scouting, then it has already failed because I know what my opponent could be running, unless they change their team, which is also another way to prevent counter teams in a system where you can view replays as soon as the match is done. 

 

 

I remember a tournament where i had to wait a long time for my opponent to come face me. Why did i have to wait a long time? Was my opponent in another match? No actually he was done with his match before me, so what was he doing? He was watching the person he would most likely face next in the line up battle. Adding replay capability makes this 100 times easier, especially if you can skip turns n such (idk what replay is actually like). If you... erm... i mean my opponent at that tourny had started spectating in the middle of the match then he wouldnt have his opponents whole team. But given 10 min btwn rounds and replay capabilities then getting the entire team becomes a lot easier. Having replays during tournies just gives scouter another tool to use to scout. And scouting is not healthy for a competitive game. You should not be able to get the drop on your opponent because you scouted them. Especially since the person you are scouting probably didnt get to scout you. That starts the match off on an uneven playing ground right there. A truly competitive match would be one that both opponents start on as even of a playing ground as their skills allow them to be. So lets not give people any more tools to make that not happen.

 

Scouting is not apart of pokemon, and even if it was it doesnt make it good. Salamence is apart of pokemon, does that mean we should be able to use him in all tournaments? Hell tiers arent apart of pokemon and we use them to make the game more competitive. So that argument is in no way shape or form valid. If we can do something to make the game more competitive then we should as long as it doesnt disproportionately negatively effect another aspect of the game. Taking away replays during tournies, and using the semi blind bracket system i suggested above accomplishes just that.

"A long time". You mean the 10 minute timer that starts as soon as both future opponents are done with their matches? How could you survive, waiting potentially 5 minutes for your opponent to make a team or scout your match? The replay system currently is pretty rudimentary, as it's basically only capable of replaying the real time battle. A 45 minute battle is going to be a 45 minute battle in replays still. No skipping turns. No erasing the time between turns. 

 

Actually, scouting is actually pretty useful for the meta. I know your boyfriend, KingBowser, has created a lot of nifty sets like sub punch ludicolo, because of scouting opponents and realizing they don't run venusaur. Would sub punch ludicolo exist without scouting? Potentially, but scouting gives people a reason to run these weird unusual sets, that would normally never be run in a standard tournament where you don't know what your opponent is running. 

 

If you're expecting an even playing ground, then maybe try some another game like tic tac toe. Skill level, preparation, matchup, and scouting are all contributing to how a match is going to be. Do you really think the playing ground is even if you played frags round 1 in a tournament? Even if neither of you scouted each other, no offense, but you're at a disadvantage. 

 

Well you're making a pretty big assumption there, saying that scouting is not competitive.

Competitive-  having a strong desire to win or be the best at something. 

I don't know about you, but scouting is a pretty important part of being the best at something. Do you think your lyle bff's made it to all those finals just running the same team every round? No, they had team mates scout out opponents and build counter teams every round. 

 

The only problems with this is that there could be holes in your team you need to compensate for. I know i will find holes in my team sometimes and have to change up next round. I could see this working if you were allowed to register like 6 different teams or something. Then the only way you can counter team is by picking the best team you had already registered for the tourny and go with that.

6 different teams? That's potentially 36 different pokemon. I could prepare 6 teams that can basically cover the common team builds. A trapinch sp atk team for defensive teams that run chansey. A magneton physical team for defensive teams that run skarmory/forretress. A belly drum linoone+wynaut team for beating a lot of teams by sheer uncompetitiveness. A 6 wall team for playing other wall teams or offensive teams. Etc. If you really have 6 different teams, then scouting shouldn't even be an issue because you can just run another team each round of a tournament, so there's no way your opponent can know what you're running if you run 6 completely different pokemon. 

[KaynineXL]

I'm just saying that most of the comp players that somewhat regularly participate already know what their opponents will be running roughly. If these changes are supposed to prevent scouting, then it has already failed because I know what my opponent could be running, unless they change their team, which is also another way to prevent counter teams in a system where you can view replays as soon as the match is done. 

Yes but that information isn't given to you on a silver platter. Learning other peoples play styles and teams is very time consuming and requires quite a lot of experience, that's the benefit of putting more time into the game.

 

You can say it however you like, but don't tell me randomizing the bracket and not allowing replays until after the tournament wouldn't HEAVILY reduce scouting because I know, you know, they know, their mother knows it would.

 

Even you, being the absolute god you are would not be able to scout not so popular names. /sarcasm

[BurntZebra]

Yes but that information isn't given to you on a silver platter. Learning other peoples play styles and teams is very time consuming and requires quite a lot of experience, that's the benefit of putting more time into the game.

 

You can say it however you like, but don't tell me randomizing the bracket and not allowing replays until after the tournament wouldn't HEAVILY reduce scouting because I know, you know, they know, their mother knows it would.

 

Even you, being the absolute god you are would not be able to scout not so popular names. /sarcasm

I mean it's not like I study teams in my free time, but I typically remember certain matches. I mean both of those would reduce scouting, but two questions should be asked. Is scouting a bad thing/is it competitive? Would the system be user/spectator friendly? The only reason I'm not a supporter of removing replays is because "scouters gonna scout" regardless of what it takes to scout. 

[KaynineXL]

I mean it's not like I study teams in my free time, but I typically remember certain matches. I mean both of those would reduce scouting, but two questions should be asked. Is scouting a bad thing/is it competitive? Would the system be user/spectator friendly? The only reason I'm not a supporter of removing replays is because "scouters gonna scout" regardless of what it takes to scout. 

If each round was randomized and there were no replays, how could you spectate the first few rounds? Unless you have an army of scouters, or you get lucky and just scout 1 or 2 people it's not really possible until higher rounds.

 

Is scouting a bad thing in competitive, well I guess that depends on the people who are playing the game. As of now, there is a lot of support for this thread, the likes give some good evidence towards that whereas I can only see one person who is against it, yourself. So, is scouting a bad thing? Yes, for the most part, it is.

 

I think the system would be more user friendly than it is now. Lets start at the bottom, with the current system you can see patterns in the brackets to work out who you have next which should not be there. Players who have not seen the pattern are at a disadvantage right away, how is that user friendly if there is hidden advantages in the bracket? With randomized brackets, that will make it more user friendly because as far as they know it's randomized rounds anyway, so what's the difference? As far as I'm concerned, spectators should be watching the live games instead of checking out previous games during tournament times, they have plenty of time to check out the previous games after the tournament.