Huargensy

Update this after new stuff arrives

Keeping a broken mon because it's considered to count other broken Pokemon shouldn't be a reason not to ban it.

Well, a quick opinion now that I've become more active in competitive these days, when I made the post I didn't even mention the defensive or scarf variants that surpass almost the entire meta, only being surpassed by durant scarf, it's not just a form of wallbreak dependent on 40% to remove what is put in front of it, if not also a good revenge and such a good defensive mon able to pressure other walls with leech seed + seed flare with hp ice/fire/rock, it's a mon very good for UU, the offensive part is just a sample, a mon capable of putting so much pressure on anyone who enters and is not lucky enough to win the 60% no drop is something dead if it does not come out of there, the scarfs variants are more fast, but of these only 2 or 3 really ensure k.0, while they are eating hazards, something that shaymin recovers by recover, there is no disadvantage to using shaymin, you don't eat rocks, they have no way to trap you, you heal , you can withstand almost everything and you're even able to heal yourself and wallbreak, crobat is used as one of his possible counts and then you see that brave doesn't eliminate him, wall shaymin is able to withstand the bat cb's brave and eliminate him from recoil + rocky and psychic, it's too ridiculous, to finish, I have people play roserade scarf or bouffalant for shaymin, I wouldn't be surprised to see things like escavalier after they wouldn't be used in a normal meta because they're not viable enough, that's an issue for me of centralization, if it continues like this we would not be playing a meta with shaymin, we would have shaymin playing with our meta

Hello everyone, the Tier Council has just started the discussion about Shaymin in the Under Used metagame, feel free to give the opinions you have playing the tier, before giving your opinion take the following into account: - Avoid derailing the thread. - Please try to provide preference calculations to justify your opinion, it is not mandatory, but it would be very helpful to expedite the discussion. Reason for discussion Hi, as you all know, Shaymin the first legendary added to our metagame dropped to UnderUsed a few months ago. While it wasn't discussed at the time because he needed a bit of sample time to see how he fit in, we think it's time to discuss his stay in the tier. Shaymin is a Pokémon that has very high and decent statistics due to its singular characteristic, with an above-average speed, also having great bulk despite being generally used as a sweeper, although the special attack is somewhat poor compared to others things, it is when the movement that we should talk about enters and that is probably a reason for discussion. Seed flare has a chance to reduce the special defense by 2 levels 40% of the time, this causes shaymin's counters to end up being pressured and/or weakened from the next hit they receive, this added to its good bulk makes you dependent on not activate 40% to be able to handle it effectively. In addition to a power of 120, it still hits strong offensive pokemon resistant to it, for which it ends up weakening them due to its superior speed. It also gets psychic for those poison like crobat or roserade that come in to take seed flare, or hp ice to threaten dragons like salamence, hp fire to pressure bronzong or remove durant and forre that come in on most of their moves. Recovery to recover incoming hits, which allows it due to its high bulk. And the new access to sleep powder that makes it gain momentum/keep pressing with other moves while taking advantage of sleep turns, works against their counters The most used set is a Life Orb set with 3 attacks + recovery, based on taking advantage of its speed and special attack, while it recovers the hits it can withstand well, usually any that is not effective. Defensive sets have also been seen that are based on wearing down with leechseed + rocky to pressure with seed flare Some calculations towards possibles counter Now, let's remember that as I said before, shaymin has enough speed to pass through many offensive things in the metagame, let's move on to common check/ offensive mons that aren't weak to seed flare. Although everything seems in favor of shaymin , he also has his problems, Some choice scarf users can take seed flare and pressure/kill it -Scarce pp of seed flare: 8 pp is something that goes quickly, especially when it is your move to spam -Seed flare has a chance to miss -60% of not activating the drop -Bouffalant(Centralization, here we go) Feel free to discuss or give your opinion on what you have in mind, in this case I will take care of reading each comment carefully

It was something I mentioned recently, shaymin really seems like a problem to me

I used full speed and attack with AV vs zokuru

😭

Don't try to mention other things that don't have to do with gallade or the current meta, blaziken is not a topic of discussion and just derails the main topic, thanks.

Just use scream tail

I am very excited to be able to have ZU

Obviously crawdaunt will be a problem if play teams with 0 water resistance

Well, sorry for some inactivity in these months, right now I will try to give a quick personal opinion of everything that goes down or up: Toxicroak: I'm going to assume it goes up by rain spam with toxicroak and seismitoad, nothing to argue with this really Seismitoad: Same as with Toxicroak UU: Ditto: I hope it goes down to NU even Jolteon: Outside of the happiness that it gives me to know that this is finally the place where he belongs. I really don't even consider it a problem, it's very hp reliant to hit ground types and in some matches you won't be able to do much if you choose the wrong hp, grass for swampert, ice for flygon, grass for gastrodon, ice for shaymin etc. Both are resisted by rotom heat, other than that we have very strong defensive stuff on the special side to support it (Snorlax, umbreon, gigalith) and things like lanturn or umbreon that can increase their usage because of that. On the offensive side, we also have a way to revenge him while we have a krooko scarf to eliminate him without problems. Milotic: Empoleon is one of the most used and simply makes fun of him, shaymin in the same way, roserade can pressure him or configure spikes on him, jellicent is immune to scald and if he doesn't have toxic he can't touch him, we will have jolteon to pressure him offensively like rotom mow or defensive venusaur, can also encourage the use of gastrodon, tentacruel or lanturn again it has the nerf pp as data. Also to say that the flame orb set can eat a lot of chip damage when played and therefore is a bad idea Salamence: This is probably the biggest problem with the changes, but let's just say we never actually banned it, it went up automatically upon receipt of its hidden days before we made a decision on it. We now have empoleon for a more responsive pick spec set, hippowdon for a mixed set or dd depending on the set, umbreon is still available to stop him on first impulse or count mixed salamence, swampert can take a hit from the dd and remove him from the move I would like to mention P2, but really his tenure in the tier is still uncertain, although Moxie can cause him to break salamence, I for one prefer to wait and see how it goes, I'm not a fan of quickban unless I want to feels really necessary so at least for now my decision is probably that this one stays until we see how it goes, maybe it's like staraptor it only took us a couple of days to decide it didn't belong in the UU. Probably the biggest problem is waiting for the set which will execute Btw: I want to mention things like rhyperior/mandibuzz/ donphan that can hold up to the dragon dance set NU: Cloyster: I think that with this the truth I have more doubts than with Salamence, we have electrode and scrafty so a game of screens is really scary, the issue of their movements seems to me a disadvantage, but with the specific game you can eliminate a lot of things, I was trying to search for a specific account but its really tricky i only found quagsire but you may lose against some chosen raid set. These are the ones that can sustain their hits at +2 normally +2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-105 (42 - 51.9%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Now remember this learns Missile Pin +2 252+ Atk Cloyster Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 170-210 (84.1 - 103.9%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO Bronzor: +2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 60-70 (36.5 - 42.6%) -- approx. 3HKO +2 252+ Atk Cloyster Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 80-95 (48.7 - 57.9%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO As long as I can only play it with psywave qwilfish: +1 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 85-105 (49.7 - 61.4%) -- approx. 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery In the same way, you can only do thunder wave or try to use toxic, casting mist alone would be a waste of time since it would boost the next turn in the same way. hitmontop: +1 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 110-135 (70 - 85.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers Recovery But this one can't get a KO in return. 0 Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 80-96 (64 - 76.8%) -- 2HKO guaranteed Finally, vaporeon needs a scalding burn to win, while alomomola if it lasts longer but can only pray a burn or throw a toxic at it and try to stall Its high defense allows it to take sucker punches from the likes of Absol Honchkrow, and even Hitmon's mach punches, only being taken out by Blaziken's vacuum wave 252+ Atk Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster on a critical hit: 69-82 (55.2 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster on a critical hit: 67-81 (53.6 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 65-78 (52 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 73-88 (58.4 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 120-143 (96 - 114.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO Btw can use ice shard in +2 Vaporeon: This has been seen before Nidoqueen: This one has the moveset to take out the entire level if he wanted to, he can even run a bulky set with moonlight to heal negligible damage, but offensive teams can push him a certain way, I'm very doubtful, I want to see. . him in action, my mind tells me that "Ban is too much for the tier", but I want to see at least a little bit of him. In the same way, I am aware that we have many changes currently that are too chaotic, but it is normal that it happens when new things are added, we are still looking at how to handle the issue of uses.

IGN: Huargensy Tiers: SS LC>OU>>>>ALL Competitive Accolades: None, I don't consider it an achievement to win something here. Discord: Alex's #8791 Fluff: Just because I've gotten weaker, it doesn't mean that you got stronger, right?

Oh, you have no idea how troublesome that hedgehog is when he wants to fly.