The Physical/Special Split

[Excelimpulse]

...Yeah. You're completely ignorant about what's going on.

Oh please all you have been doing is bashing me.

Ignoring magneton is ignorant. Mag has -100 competitive Ness. Come on you get a free kill.

[Excelimpulse]

Yeah it's what we do. But I wouldn't call the meta we have now 'healthy' at all

So predicting your opponent doesn't take skill? That doesn't distinguish the difference between great and bad players? If that is the case and we want safe switch ins again I'm out. I would rather try to out think my opponent then blindlessly spam .

[Gunthug]

>calls someone childish

>throws an enormous hissy fit because he thinks salamence is getting banned

 

xcel, which ban criteria does magneton fall under?

Edited January 5, 2015 by sloppyj24

[Vaeldras]

Hue gibe ice fang on gyara plz

[YagamiNoir]

Oh please all you have been doing is bashing me.

Ignoring magneton is ignorant. Mag has -100 competitive Ness. Come on you get a free kill.

Banning Magneton won't stop Mence from getting the boot, for your information. And considering you're heavily opposed to all these bans be my guest if you want two Pokemon gone instead of just one. Your Magneton argument only serves to cover your "pls keep Mence" argument, and people have already tried to give you reasons as to why banning Magneton won't make a difference in nerfing Salamence.

 

So yeah you're basically contradicting yourself in a minor way. 

[Excelimpulse]

Banning Magneton won't stop Mence from getting the boot, for your information. And considering you're heavily opposed to all these bans be my guest if you want two Pokemon gone instead of just one. Your Magneton argument only serves to cover your "pls keep Mence" argument, and people have already tried to give you reasons as to why banning Magneton won't make a difference in nerfing Salamence.

So yeah you're basically contradicting yourself in a minor way.

I just gave you reasons why mence is not an issue with mag gone. Banning a poke that instantly kills a poke is uncompegituve. That's what trio does. Come on its not that hard. Once mence goes dnite ttar will follow. Then heracross is gone again along with bkaziken.

[Excelimpulse]

>calls someone childish
>throws an enormous hissy fit because he thinks salamence is getting banned

xcel, which ban criteria does magneton fall under?

Trapping like trio. It's not just mence. It's the fact you guys would let it go back to the way it was. Do it then idc. Call me childish. when your competitive base gets smaller with an update that bad.

[RyoOhsora]

grind/banmmo inc. ._.' the update is going to ruin everything
why do we need gen4 anyways? we haven't even had a chance to fully use the gen3 potential yet....
and Excelimpulse is kinda right try to see his point and understand it ._.'
so trio is banned for trapping and killing without any problem and magneton is allowed because what? it does the same thing to skar xD but nvm i hope uber will be more interesting then it was before because ou is going to be shitty as hell

Edited January 5, 2015 by RyoOhsora

[YagamiNoir]

I just gave you reasons why mence is not an issue with mag gone. Banning a poke that instantly kills a poke is uncompegituve. That's what trio does. Come on its not that hard. Once mence goes dnite ttar will follow. Then heracross is gone again along with bkaziken.

And those reasons were countered. Steel types are by no means reliable checks to Salamence, and as ThinkNice just said, no one wants to see every team filled with Swampert + Steels + Salamence bit. Don't you find it ridiculous that you have to run those things just for Mence, and not very reliable ones at that? Magneton only traps Steels -- if you're going to compare Magneton's trapping with Dugtrio you're making me laugh, as the common things it reliably traps are....two things. That aren't run together, and are not always on every team. Oh yeah Swampert can kinda affect Skarmory usage just because it's not trapped and easily eliminated. Slightly less need for a Mag because new and closest thing to deal with a rampaging Dragon. Dugtrio traps....all of the reliable Special walls, and anything that touches the ground. And when you talk about the lack of diversity you miss Gyarados and tons of other newly viable things. To be honest you're only seeing the bad sides and seeing the cup half empty instead of half full. At this point we're also in the middle of an egotistical squabble that's pointless when Mence is already banned anyway and you're kinda fruitlessly trying to bring it back. 

 

This gen 4 method was introduced, presumably and  partially to balance out other matters like the economy thing so people have to remake their comps and stuff. 

[Arkhelien]

Fine, "pulse", I'll give it a go against your stubbornness.

Let's start with a crash course into tiering, prediction should never be used as an argument. It goes both ways, and as you may predict something, your opponent could do it too. And no, unlike what you seem to believe, we do not want everything to be based off good predictions, as a match can be won in more ways than that. Teambuilding and team matchup are as important as what you do in battle, as well as how many times doing your safest and best play is better than pulling off risky predictions. The best players are the ones that can see the battle as an ensemble of long term decisions and those who manage to understand the risk and reward behind each of their and their opponent's move, so don't you dare call other people out on "not using their brain", because flailing around about predictions doesn't make you any better than anyone else, it just shows that you're an average player with some knowledge about the game.

 

Now onto each of the Pokémons you keep talking about.

Magneton is indeed a nice partner to Salamence and it aids in making it very hard to deal with, yet it is not the actual problem. I agree that trapping abilities are uncompetitive, but in the case of Magnet Pull you have to look at it from both ways. Unlike the case of Arena Trap and Shadow Tag that had got the boot to Ubers earlier because they trapped a majority of the metagame, Magnet Pull affects only the Steel type. And in case you didn't bother to check, Steel typing is one of the best, if not the best defensive typing in the game, giving immunity to one type and resisting 11 of the total of 17 types available to us. If you run a Steel type this is the risk that you have to play with: one Pokémon that may end your fun run. Magneton is not the greatest Pokémon you want to run, but its utility comes from the fact that Steel types put such a big pressure on many offensive Pokémons; and it's not how you might want it to be like, where Magneton hinders them. Magneton was used before too, and not because Salamence needed it, but because Steel types were THAT good.

 

Salamence is crazy good, and your attitude towards this problem only shows how ignorant you are of other opinions. You did not invent the wheel by discovering Protect, you just showed yourself how much Salamence negatively influences teambuilding, yet you just don't want to give up. Salamence got the power and the movesets to break through the majority of teams, and the fact that you have to bring a bulky water plus a steel type too maybe stop it shows once again how unhealthy it is. Ban Magneton, be my guest, but Salamence has other partners than can just as easily break through your "skills". Just as I mentioned the Steel typing earlier as a good defensive typing, Dragon typing falls under the category of one of the best offensive types. It is only resisted by one type, and like it wasn't enough, it usually comes packed on a monster with huge offensive stats: 135/110 on Salamence and 134/100 on Dragonite, as an example.

 

So can you, please, stop with all this nonsense? Salamence does not need your spam, and neither do we find any fun in reading the same repetitive argument.

Roll with it, accept the change for now, because none of us want an unhealthy meta. If Magneton will rise to be a problem I am sure it will be dealt with, just as other broken Pokémons were dealt with when they had negative influence on our metagame.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Arkhelien

[Gunthug]

Dugtrio trapped and killed the only two viable special walls in OU without a second thought. It also trapped anything that wasn't floating.

Mag traps a small handful of Pokemon, and only traps and kills effectively two of those Pokemon: skarm and forret. Unlike with bliss/lax, these are not the only two viable defensive walls in the tier.

Also, "trapping" is not a ban criteria. Xcel, which of the three criteria do you think mag falls under? Do you know the three criteria?

[IndigoGlacier]

[Excelimpulse]

So I'm supposed to know all these criteria for rules on banning. But I know for a fact that magmeton isn't competitive. I've played enough competitive games to knowvtjat if things are easy to do its not good.

But blamming mence really? Come on. And what do u think is going to happen when the dragons are gone? The teams were all the same. The dragons forced people to use different combos. But he'll what doiknow i dint know specific clauses. That makes me a noob. Knowing rules off of smogon do not make yoh a good player.

I have you two cores to stop the dragons and basically everything. And there's more that took me 1 min to come up with them. Swampert will be beyond ou. Hands down will be used more then any other poke. No matter what bans happen. I'm just stating steels and waters are the most used types for a reason. And taking out mag lets everything have an easier time. Hell I'm helping stall right now but getting accused of helping dragons.

Calm down with the free mence shit. Yes I'm posses off that you guys want it out. But is thaT what really pisses me off? No, endure rev blaxikwn you better believe will be banned within a month if you get rid of dragons especially dnkte.

Unless we running quick attack again.

[MasterExquisite]

I've played enough competitive games to knowvtjat if things are easy to do its not good.


And taking out mag lets everything have an easier time.

the contradictions Edited January 5, 2015 by MasterExquisite

[Excelimpulse]

the contradictions

How is that contradicting ?

Magnetron only takes out a couple Def walls. "The two most known" but trio takes out the two specials walls most known.

Trio banned .

Magneton laughing at you.

Pokemmo logic

[IndigoGlacier]

So I'm supposed to know all these criteria for rules on banning. But I know for a fact that magmeton isn't competitive. I've played enough competitive games to knowvtjat if things are easy to do its not good.

 

 

If you compare magneton to trio, it's not bad. Trio traps everything. EVERYTHING. Magneton doesn't, so you can't ban it on that reason. 

 

But blamming mence really? Come on. And what do u think is going to happen when the dragons are gone? The teams were all the same. The dragons forced people to use different combos. 
 

I don't see much different combos unless it's vap. I could be wrong, but usually that's the one of the very few people use to counter it. In the split, most of the ou walls in gen3 wont be able to take much from it. Not everyone builds their team for one poke, and if you plan on using 2 or 3 pokes for a counter of one, wouldn't that mean that the poke you're trying to counter is op?  I think i stole this from someone.

 

Edited January 5, 2015 by IndigoGlacier

[NikhilR]

How is that contradicting ?

Magnetron only takes out a couple Def walls. "The two most known" but trio takes out the two specials walls most known.

Trio banned .

Magneton laughing at you.

Pokemmo logic

 

I lol'd at you thinking Trio takes out "only" 2 spdef walls. It basically can kill anything below a speed of 189 that is at low health which means rip starmie or zam (speed tie) or gengar or espeon or houndoom or any wall that was at low health could've rested on a turn where it switched into an immune/not very effective banded attack, eg dusclops switching into banded superpower and then resting.

 

EDIT: [spoiler] gotcha excel [/spoiler]

Edited January 5, 2015 by NikhilR

[Gunthug]

Here's the big difference between dugtrio and magneton:

 

If your opponent doesn't bring skarm or forretress, then your mag is basically useless. You just brought a UU special attacker that can't do its main job: trap and kill skarm/fort. Plenty of good team archetypes are possible w/o skarm/fort (hell, didn't you just list a couple of solid defensive cores w/o those two?)

 

If your opponent doesn't bring blissey/snorlax, then you're opponent is probably bad. Usage doesnt lie - the odds are overwhelmingly high that your opponent is rocking one of those 2 pokemon. Which means dugtrio can do its job. And, if somehow your opponent isnt using one of them, dugtrio is still a fucking monster.

 

So until you stop comparing dugtrio and magneton, you won't be taken seriously.

 

edit: also, you have the worst attitude I've seen on these forums in a long time. "Either do what I say or the competitive community will literally be destroyed." Who the fuck thinks like that? Take it down a notch

Edited January 5, 2015 by sloppyj24

[Excelimpulse]

I lol'd at you thinking Trio takes out "only" 2 spdef walls. It basically can kill anything below a speed of 189 that is at low health which means rip starmie or zam (speed tie) or gengar or espeon or houndoom or any wall that was at low health could've rested on a turn where it switched into an immune/not very effective banded attack, eg dusclops switching into banded superpower and then resting.

I lol at you bringing. Pokes that arnt even used on it. Yeah let's bring up zam? Really come on now. Gengar, starmie,? Come on now. We know the reason why dugtrio was banned. Let's not deny it. Snorlax and blissey.

Your talking about setup now?

Magnetron can set up also. Skar can whirlwind so can snoralz-_- come on now

They do the same thing.

And fyi read my message. I said two specials walls. There was never the word only. Gg Edited January 5, 2015 by Excelimpulse

[Gunthug]

I lol at you bringing. Pokes that arnt even used on it.

 

Gengar, starmie,? Come on now.

lmfao. We're done here

[Excelimpulse]

Here's the big difference between dugtrio and magneton:

If your opponent doesn't bring skarm or forretress, then your mag is basically useless. You just brought a UU special attacker that can't do its main job: trap and kill skarm/fort. Plenty of good team archetypes are possible w/o skarm/fort (hell, didn't you just list a couple of solid defensive cores w/o those two?)

If your opponent doesn't bring blissey/snorlax, then you're opponent is probably bad. Usage doesnt lie - the odds are overwhelmingly high that your opponent is rocking one of those 2 pokemon. Which means dugtrio can do its job. And, if somehow your opponent isnt using one of them, dugtrio is still a fucking monster.

So until you stop comparing dugtrio and magneton, you won't be taken seriously.

edit: also, you have the worst attitude I've seen on these forums in a long time. "Either do what I say or the competitive community will literally be destroyed." Who the fuck thinks like that? Take it down a notch

Guess what you use a superman team and trio is worthless too. Learn how to counter your threats.

[sherdoonach]

you undervalue magnetons wallbreaking capabilities gunther

agree with the rest ofc

xcel must be very bored at work

Edited January 5, 2015 by sherdoonach

[BenGorgon]

Guess what you use a superman team and trio is worthless too. Learn how to counter your threats.

 

That is called a "centralized meta" which is exactly why Mence is banned as well. Teams have to be built to counter the specific threat, and that is not healthy for a metagame. As mentioned above, Magneton is not a centralizing factor, so as stated again, and again, it is not necessarily worthy of a ban. 

[NikhilR]

Gengar, starmie,? Come on now. We know the reason why dugtrio was banned. Let's not deny it. Snorlax and blissey.

Your talking about setup now?

Magnetron can set up also. Skar can whirlwind so can snoralz-_- come on now

They do the same thing.

And fyi read my message. I said two specials walls. There was never the word only. Gg

 

Lol'd again at the bolded statement. Saying Gengar can be trapped when it has levitate pretty much says everything about your knowledge.

 

Um magneton can set up on a few things. Dugtrio can set up on anything which isn't flying/doesn't levitate which is a lot.

 

Your point was it got banned for only taking out 2 spdef walls when it clearly did more than that. Snorlax can WW when tropius comes but dugtrio is still capable of biting you back in the ass which is why it will stay banned.

 

GG

[Excelimpulse]

I never said do what I say either. It's sad you guys putting words in my mouth. It's sad you think magneton is competitive and doesn't effect the metagame. Look around talk to people outside your friends a lot of people disagree.

I Said magnetron because I think it stands in the way of having a balance metagame.

If you ththinkm wrong whatever. Idc anymore push everyone good away.