Sacky Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Oh dear god, do you think we're ever going to get anywhere if you don't think about the future? or do you think we will end up in the same position as 4 months ago? So take the slope theory somewhere else. It's not a theory, you don't think curse lax won't be an issue then? Come on now Heracross isn't even a problem And if it is spend more then 10 min on your team build. is no way we are in the same position as 4 month ago for 2 reasons. 1- is a tottaly diferent metagame than 4 month ago 2- i dont think the TC make the same mistakes i dont think hera deserve a ban you just need to chek the first move (almost alwayss) to realize what build is the oponent running..and for everything it have really hard counters Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 is no way we are in the same position as 4 month ago for 2 reasons. 1- is a tottaly diferent metagame than 4 month ago 2- i dont think the TC make the same mistakes i dont think hera deserve a ban you just need to chek the first move (almost alwayss) to realize what build is the oponent running..and for everything it have really hard counters Sacky: if we would ban heracross how are we not in the same position? Different moves lol? Same bans same threats same play style. And saying oh you just have to check heracross first move doesn't help its argument. One could say that's all you need to do with the big 3. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Sacky: if we would ban heracross how are we not in the same position? Different moves lol? Same bans same threats same play style.Lax and dug arent banned. There are way more threats (blaziken metagross swampert (edit: forgot flygon) even physical kingdra/gyara are more viable now than they were last time) and once again, hyper offense, balance, and stall are all viable at this point whereas in the past stall was definitely the strongest. So, in other words, no no and no to your three points. Don't you get tired of being wrong? Edited February 24, 2015 by Gunthug Link to comment
Sacky Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Sacky: if we would ban heracross how are we not in the same position? Different moves lol? Same bans same threats same play style. And saying oh you just have to check heracross first move doesn't help its argument. One could say that's all you need to do with the big 3. the fact is..we have now a hyper ofensive metagame....you need to make a healthy metagame, and that's include the stall....the people really like to complain about people using 4 walls or even 6 (hi plata xD) but that...in a healthy game must be an option...you can win using both or even a mix of both....u can win using just spikes and WW/roar...etc that is beyond you like it that playstyle or not...that is called "balanced metagame"....whit the hyper ofensive metagame we have..a ban of the dragon is healthy 4 month ago they banned pokes untill even breloom can be a really uber guy, now you have even in lapras a possible hard physical hitter...you see?, is a tottaly different metagame Edited February 24, 2015 by Sacky Link to comment
DrCraig Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 What are you even arguing about Shaniqualela 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 What are you even arguing about Superman I think Toast 1 Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Superman I think i hear he can fly. on a slightly more srs note, if there are a few people making the same horrible arguments over and over just dont reply. it spams up the thread with 10 pages of explaining the same thing over and over again to the same person/s. check to see if someone has corrected the person once then just ignore them. they will either shut up, or continue to argue with themselves forever and some mod will clean up the thread. this way if someone wants to read the thread and get a good idea of the opinions of everyone they can do so quickly. and @bowser you cant run bounce gyara to beat hera cause sub, however you can run physically defensive + special attacks (like hp fly) to beat hera, or just dd up vs hera if no rockslide. Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) As already pointed out by fred (possibly someone else too?) we have different ways to deal with any possible heracross set without having to build half of our team just for that purpose: Skarm, weezing, gengar, arcanine, gyarados, kingdra (?), espeed pika, quick attack. ( maybe firepunch/self d lax if you predict a sdance?), endure zard, any faster reversal user etc. I want to focus on dusclops though. This dude has the potential to gently lift it up, chew it a lil bit, go play some minecraft, have a little snack, decide if he wants hera to be crispier, and then slowly eat it while the bug can only envy it's immense, majestic bulk. Some calcs with this set: 252 hp and defense, impish nature, will o wisp, pain split, disable and seismic toss/hp flying (hue)/ firepunch (kek) Dusclops Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Heracross: 50-50 (32.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (terribly close to 3hko, you get that against 21 hp ivs hera) 0 Atk Dusclops Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 54-64 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 0- SpA Dusclops Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 68-84 (45.3 - 56%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO Megahorn should be the hardest hitting move heracross has against godclops, no? let's see what it can ('t) do 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 33-39 (22.4 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (yeh sure) +2 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 66-78 (44.8 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (basically a 3hko) +4 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 98-116 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Now, if you were to have hp flying (kek) you could easily switch into hera as soon as it comes out, and your opponent would be forced to switch while you happily pain split to nullify everything hera could have possibly done (unless late game or you pain split on a weakened shedinja), whatever happens (crits included maybe). Disable uguublocks every choice band set, while will o wisp can screw up endure/reversal (aren't these the two common sets?) You can also run sub to avoid a possibe endure/swarm boosted megahorn. [spoiler]Yes, i'm enjoying dusc + extremely offensive team a lot[/spoiler] I really like this new meta, with everyone and their mothers having elepunches nothing is really TOO overcentralizing (at least imho) Keep up the good job guys! Edited February 25, 2015 by Vaeldras Link to comment
DrCraig Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 I want to focus on dusclops though. This dude has the potential to gently lift it up, chew it a lil bit, go play some minecraft, have a little snack, decide if he wants hera to be crispier, and then slowly eat it while the bug can only envy it's immense, majestic bulk. Some calcs with this set: 252 hp and defense, impish nature, will o wisp, pain split, disable and seismic toss/hp flying (hue)/ firepunch (kek) Dusclops Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Heracross: 50-50 (32.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (terribly close to 3hko, you get that against 21 hp ivs hera) 0 Atk Dusclops Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 54-64 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 0- SpA Dusclops Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 68-84 (45.3 - 56%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO Megahorn should be the hardest hitting move heracross has against godclops, no? let's see what it can ('t) do 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 33-39 (22.4 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (yeh sure) +2 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 66-78 (44.8 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (basically a 3hko) +4 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 98-116 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Now, if you were to have hp flying (kek) you could easily switch into hera as soon as it comes out, and your opponent would be forced to switch while you happily pain split to nullify everything hera could have possibly done (unless late game or you pain split on a weakened shedinja), whatever happens (crits included maybe). Disable uguublocks every choice band set, while will o wisp can screw up endure/reversal (aren't these the two common sets?) You can also run sub to avoid a possibe endure/swarm boosted megahorn. Jolly 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 60-72 (40.8 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 90-108 (61.2 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 80-96 (54.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +4 252 Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 122-144 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Adamant 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 68-80 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 100-118 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 90-106 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +4 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 132-156 (89.7 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO Thief is apparently a thing to run on hera with 60BP and it destroys ghosts. (60 BP calc pretty sure i didnt mess up) ____________________________________ Dusclops is pretty solid defensively, but let's just be real about it. Dusclops has no offensive anything going for it. And HP Flying ain't happening. Robofiend and Vaeldras 2 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Jolly 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 60-72 (40.8 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 90-108 (61.2 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 80-96 (54.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +4 252 Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 122-144 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Adamant 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 68-80 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 100-118 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 90-106 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +4 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 132-156 (89.7 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO Thief is apparently a thing to run on hera with 60BP and it destroys ghosts. (60 BP calc pretty sure i didnt mess up) ____________________________________ Dusclops is pretty solid defensively, but let's just be real about it. Dusclops has no offensive anything going for it. And HP Flying ain't happening. Leftovers recovery after thief, hue. Mfw doe, thief might be actually more useful than megahorn for a reversal sweep. I mean, banded thief is still stopped. bulky hera can shrek dusc no prob, i have to admit that. Reversal? is a thief/sdance/reversal/sub-endure better than the regular megahorn set for a sweep? almost seems so to me. Heracross asides, dusc is my first choice when it comes to defensive pokes (actually my only choice, unless we want to consider boomlax defensive). It can take down metagross easily (not even sure what metagross viable sets actually are, but i've always managed to shrek it really easily), it can trap any choice bander, can deal with gyarados under certain circumstances, and it can even pain split on some sp attackers. And all these things just with my ph defensive set. Too bad heracross gets thief. Link to comment
DrCraig Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Leftovers recovery after thief, hue. Mfw doe, thief might be actually more useful than megahorn for a reversal sweep. I mean, banded thief is still stopped. bulky hera can shrek dusc no prob, i have to admit that. Reversal? is a thief/sdance/reversal/sub-endure better than the regular megahorn set for a sweep? almost seems so to me. Heracross asides, dusc is my first choice when it comes to defensive pokes (actually my only choice, unless we want to consider boomlax defensive). It can take down metagross easily (not even sure what metagross viable sets actually are, but i've always managed to shrek it really easily), it can trap any choice bander, can deal with gyarados under certain circumstances, and it can even pain split on some sp attackers. And all these things just with my ph defensive set. Too bad heracross gets thief.Thief would be shit on a reversal set because megahorn+swarm gives so much more coverage. Thief would be a move on a bulky attacking set or a bander for extra coverage. But yea were on the same page Edited February 25, 2015 by DrCraig Link to comment
Robofiend Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Mfw doe, thief might be actually more useful than megahorn for a reversal sweep. well, assuming your opponent doesn't have Arcanine (or something else with Priority) and you're going to lose to the bro +2 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery DrCraig 1 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 well, assuming your opponent doesn't have Arcanine (or something else with Priority) and you're going to lose to the bro +2 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery well, assuming your opponent doesn't have Arcanine (or something else with Priority) and you're going to lose to the bro +2 252+ Atk Heracross Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Well, i guess you can't really change the reversal set then. didn't take bro into account ( :rolleyes: ) Looking at our ou list right now, the only difference between the standard reversal (which is imho the most scary and even uncompetitive set) set and the hypothetical thief/versal set is that one reks slowbro, while the other one reks dusclops. Ofc slowbro is way more common, and megahorn will get you some awesome coverage even before boosting and spoiling your moveset, which is the main reason why it is superiori to thief on a reversal set. so i guess the only thing i should be scared of is the bulky set with thief instead of pursuit. Well, i don't know you guys, but i doubt i'm ever gonna see that. Unless dusclops becomes an s rank :D Link to comment
codylramey Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 U know what reks the reversal set so hard I cant believe i am the first one to think of it [spoiler] [/spoiler] Vaeldras and RysPicz 2 Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 U know what reks the reversal set so hard I cant believe i am the first one to think of it [spoiler] [/spoiler] shadow sneak? Link to comment
Shaniqualela Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It's immune to fighting and bug nub But 1 layer of spikes = rip shedinja Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Shrekt a guts hera with dusc, using wow. Close this thread Link to comment
Shaniqualela Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Shrekt a guts hera with dusc, using wow. Close this thread guts. not all hera's are reversal+swarm +2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 187-221 (65.8 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Edited February 25, 2015 by cgaribaldi94 Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 guts. not all hera's are reversal+swarm +2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusclops: 187-221 (65.8 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery It was guts, but i had disable/pain split so it couldn't touch me :D Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) wing attack is pointless on aero Hits ghosts, super effective on venusaur and ohko's medicham,blaziken,heracross and ludicolo. Edit: plus derpy uu grass pokes Edited February 25, 2015 by Vaeldras Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 U know what reks the reversal set so hard I cant believe i am the first one to think of it [spoiler] [/spoiler] i thought of that then i noticed the 0% usage and remember any weather/spikes/status insta kills + some heras carry pursuit/rs + ofc all heras outspeed. however vs SD reversal/megahorn set it would be awesome to see Link to comment
PandaJJ Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Since we're already at 5 pages of discussion, it's about time to mention crobat. In the newer generations, crobat has access to a healing move (roost), strong physical stab (brave bird) and useful utility move (defog). Thanks to crobats unique typing, it can play the role of a physical wall, pretty much like gengar in our current meta. One thing to note is that defensive crobat hard counters heracross no matter what, despite the lack of these moves: -Crobat has access to whirlwind, so you can force heracross out behind a sub -Neutral natured 4 speed EVs crobat outspeeds jolly 252 speed EVs heracross, so crobat always hits first (which means that rock slide can't flinch) -Uninvested crobat will OHKO uninvested heracross with aerial ace -Crobat tanks hits like crazy: Adamant heracross: [spoiler] 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 22-27 (11.4 - 14%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252+ Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 78-92 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 37-44 (19.2 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 45-53 (23.4 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 152-180 (79.1 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 75-88 (39 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 33-40 (17.1 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 114-136 (59.3 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [/spoiler] Jolly heracross: [spoiler] 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 21-24 (10.9 - 12.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252 Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 70-84 (36.4 - 43.7%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 34-40 (17.7 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 41-48 (21.3 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 138-164 (71.8 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 68-81 (35.4 - 42.1%) -- 87.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 31-36 (16.1 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 104-124 (54.1 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [/spoiler] Yes, you read that correctly - megahorn was suggested to be the worst move ever. As you can see, only rock slide does any damage to crobat, and only choice band variants can actually hurt crobat with rock slide. So, how viable is defensive crobat? It has access to whirlwind, aerial ace, super fang, rest, sleep talk, toxic, giga drain and sludge bomb, to mention a few options. It walls any fighting move in the game and can come in on EQs. It will probably never see use, but if nothing else it hard counters heracross. Archinix 1 Link to comment
BurntZebra Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Since we're already at 5 pages of discussion, it's about time to mention crobat. In the newer generations, crobat has access to a healing move (roost), strong physical stab (brave bird) and useful utility move (defog). Thanks to crobats unique typing, it can play the role of a physical wall, pretty much like gengar in our current meta. One thing to note is that defensive crobat hard counters heracross no matter what, despite the lack of these moves: -Crobat has access to whirlwind, so you can force heracross out behind a sub -Neutral natured 4 speed EVs crobat outspeeds jolly 252 speed EVs heracross, so crobat always hits first (which means that rock slide can't flinch) -Uninvested crobat will OHKO uninvested heracross with aerial ace -Crobat tanks hits like crazy: Adamant heracross: [spoiler] 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 22-27 (11.4 - 14%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252+ Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 78-92 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 37-44 (19.2 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 45-53 (23.4 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 152-180 (79.1 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 75-88 (39 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 33-40 (17.1 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 114-136 (59.3 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [/spoiler] Jolly heracross: [spoiler] 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 21-24 (10.9 - 12.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252 Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 70-84 (36.4 - 43.7%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 34-40 (17.7 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 41-48 (21.3 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 138-164 (71.8 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 Atk Heracross Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 68-81 (35.4 - 42.1%) -- 87.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 31-36 (16.1 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crobat: 104-124 (54.1 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [/spoiler] Yes, you read that correctly - megahorn was suggested to be the worst move ever. As you can see, only rock slide does any damage to crobat, and only choice band variants can actually hurt crobat with rock slide. So, how viable is defensive crobat? It has access to whirlwind, aerial ace, super fang, rest, sleep talk, toxic, giga drain and sludge bomb, to mention a few options. It walls any fighting move in the game and can come in on EQs. It will probably never see use, but if nothing else it hard counters heracross. still loses to bulky heracross as heracross with hp investment survives uninvested aerial ace and 2hkos with rock slide and loses to bulk up/counter heracross as well (don't think I've seen anyone run bulk up+counter together since hoenn update though) Link to comment
Gunthug Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Crobat is an otherwise weak option in OU, though - half the physical attacking behemoths carry Tpunch and can threaten crobat's ability to do much of any walling. If you're running something THAT specific to pick off heracross, you might as well run CB Dugtrio w/aerial ace. Link to comment
codylramey Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Crobat is an otherwise weak option in OU, though - half the physical attacking behemoths carry Tpunch and can threaten crobat's ability to do much of any walling. If you're running something THAT specific to pick off heracross, you might as well run CB Dugtrio w/aerial ace. Still doesnt beat the enduresal sets. (unless good predict that can make or break the game for you.) Link to comment
Recommended Posts