[UU Discussion] Charizard (Banned from UU to BL)

[fredrichnietze]

Wait wait wait... Lanturn has priority?

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ion deluge

endure

[spoiler]

just messin with ya, and i meant lantuern with the right invest can counter belly char but that lanturn looses to solar char.

[/spoiler]

[Shaniqualela]

protect
ion deluge
endure
[spoiler]
just messin with ya, and i meant lantuern with the right invest can counter belly char but that lanturn looses to solar char.
[/spoiler]

If zard has earthquake lanturn loses
Eq and tpunch are the most common coverage moves

[BurntZebra]

protect

ion deluge

endure

[spoiler]

just messin with ya, and i meant lantuern with the right invest can counter belly char but that lanturn looses to solar char.

[/spoiler]

does lanturn not survive a solarbeam or something? afaik thunderbolt lanturn should beat charizard assuming you send in lanturn as soon as charizard comes in, if you let charizard set up sub+sun, might have some issues then

[OldKeith]

If zard has earthquake lanturn loses
Eq and tpunch are the most common coverage moves

 

it depends, no set has perfect coverage, but the best is Fire Punch + TPunch. I agree EQ TPunch is also good

[BurntZebra]

stab blaze fire punch hits harder than neutral thunderpunch/rock slide even if fire is resisted 2x, unless you knew your opponent was running max def lanturn or something, I don't know why you would ever give up fire punch, and drum zard loses to golem as well if golem knows roar or rock blast, even if zard knows earthquake (inb4 its endure zard and drums as you switch in)

[Shaniqualela]

stab blaze fire punch hits harder than neutral thunderpunch/rock slide even if fire is resisted 2x, unless you knew your opponent was running max def lanturn or something, I don't know why you would ever give up fire punch, and drum zard loses to golem as well if golem knows roar or rock blast, even if zard knows earthquake (inb4 its endure zard and drums as you switch in)

I think you guys are confusing what I said lol I said earthquake and tpunch are COVERAGE moves :p
Fire punch is the obvious main stab attack.

You would have to scout which move it has, but it's usually saved until it can set up so it's near impossible to get it to attack to find out.
It's really a guess on if you should send out your bulky water or rock+ground type against it. And then if it's not belly zard you let it setup sun and kill with solarbeam.

Although it seems really strong on paper I've used it a couple times and both are kinda hard to setup simply because people just attack you and choose to sac instead of letting you get up a sub

[BurntZebra]

I think you guys are confusing what I said lol I said earthquake and tpunch are COVERAGE moves :P
Fire punch is the obvious main stab attack.

You would have to scout which move it has, but it's usually saved until it can set up so it's near impossible to get it to attack to find out.
It's really a guess on if you should send out your bulky water or rock+ground type against it. And then if it's not belly zard you let it setup sun and kill with solarbeam.

Although it seems really strong on paper I've used it a couple times and both are kinda hard to setup simply because people just attack you and choose to sac instead of letting you get up a sub

I kind of assumed thats what you meant but my reply was mostly to keith. I think your last statement kind of is a testament of how dangerous charizard is, that people are willing to sack something on their team just so that it doesn't set up

[YagamiNoir]

It's notable that MIltank probably deals with this thing well against Belly Drum sets due to Thick Fat, high innate Defense, and reliable recovery. That is, of course, unless Charizard suddenly runs Brick Break just to deal with it. 

 

Sun boosted Fire Blast 2HKOes 252/0 variants though. Yikes. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by YagamiNoir

[BurntZebra]

It's notable that MIltank probably deals with this thing well against Belly Drum sets due to Thick Fat, high innate Defense, and reliable recovery. That is, of course, unless Charizard suddenly runs Brick Break just to deal with it. 

 

Sun boosted Fire Blast 2HKOes 252/0 variants though. Yikes. 

Yeah pokemon that resist fire and aren't weak to electric or ground are the best counters to charizard, although miltank doesn't really have much offense vs charizard, besides running rock slide which doesn't seem that viable when miltank has all these other moves

[YagamiNoir]

Yeah pokemon that resist fire and aren't weak to electric or ground are the best counters to charizard, although miltank doesn't really have much offense vs charizard, besides running rock slide which doesn't seem that viable when miltank has all these other moves

Not necessarily. A setup Charizard isn't something you can beat with resistance alone. Stuff like Altaria still get shrekt by +6 Blaze boosted Fire Punch if you don't invest a lot in Defense. Miltank just has good Defense to back up it's ability to beat the Belly Drum set, hence why it's a noteworthy mention. I suppose if you do get a lucky Body Slam hax you also win, but I suppose that's not too reliable. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by YagamiNoir

[BurntZebra]

Not necessarily. A setup Charizard isn't something you can beat with resistance alone. Stuff like Altaria still get shrekt by +6 Blaze boosted Fire Punch if you don't invest a lot in Defense. Miltank just has good Defense to back up it's ability to beat the Belly Drum set, hence why it's a noteworthy mention. I suppose if you do get a lucky Body Slam hax you also win, but I suppose that's not too reliable. 

well if you can find something that survives +6 fire punch and doesn't resist it, I'd like to know this magical pokemon

[Senile]

well if you can find something that survives +6 fire punch and doesn't resist it, I'd like to know this magical pokemon

Anything with Flash Fire doesn't resist it, they're outright immune to it.

 

[spoiler]kappa[/spoiler]

[Kiliminati]

Anything with Flash Fire doesn't resist it, they're outright immune to it.

 

[spoiler]kappa[/spoiler]

I think you my be right.

 

[spoiler]top kek[/spoiler]

[YagamiNoir]

well if you can find something that survives +6 fire punch and doesn't resist it, I'd like to know this magical pokemon

My point is you need both resistance and adequate defense, noting that I exemplified that on a Pokemon that is reasonably bulky and resists the hit but still dies. 

[BurntZebra]

My point is you need both resistance and adequate defense, noting that I exemplified that on a Pokemon that is reasonably bulky and resists the hit but still dies. 

I made a similar point earlier in the thread, showing that lanturn is ohko'ed by +6 fire punch

[RysPicz]

I made a similar point earlier in the thread, showing that lanturn is ohko'ed by +6 fire punch

*

+6 blaze fire punch

ftfy ;)

[Senile]

I will say, bulky Hariyama can take on Zard pretty well, since nobody really runs Wing Attack.

+6 252+ Atk Blaze Charizard Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Thick Fat Hariyama: 169-199 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It gets Whirlwind too, so it doesn't even have to take the +6 hit; It can just come in on the Sub. It can take on Sunny Day/Solarbeam/Flamethrower/Like, whatever man pretty well too.

 

"but seh-nile, then you don't have guts! thick fat is lame! THIS IS A GIMMICK!"

 

fuck you and yo couch m8, thick fat is gud. Hariyama + Scizor cover each other's weakness, try that out, why the fuck not? Haryiama isn't even setup bait, thanks to it having a good fighting STAB and Machamp-level attack stat. It's bulky enough on it's own to come in on SubDrummers regardless of if they try to setup or attack, and with Whirlwind, it ruins them entirely.

 

#SenileMakingTheMeta

#Hariyama>Machamp

#Don'tHateWhatYouCan'tAppreciate

#They'reNotGimmicksISwear

[fredrichnietze]

fuck you and yo couch m8

w8 u wot?

 

also soon as champ is banned im making the hary thread. while you are right it does counter it for now when you look at harry it's a slightly better bulk champ with slightly less att/speed but better movepool. a bulk harry is scarier then bulk champ.

[Anjovies]

expected verdict on chorizord?

[Archinix]

expected verdict on chorizord?

We won't be getting a UU TC Verdict until later this week because that's the earliest they can meet and cast a vote

[PandaJJ]

well if you can find something that survives +6 fire punch and doesn't resist it, I'd like to know this magical pokemon

 

Despite being totally irrelevant to the thread, I found at least one such magical pokemon:

 

+6 252+ Atk Blaze Charizard Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edited March 9, 2015 by PandaJJ

[Draekyn]

Despite being totally irrelevant to the thread, I found at least one such magical pokemon:

 

+6 252+ Atk Blaze Charizard Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It resists it

[Shaniqualela]

It resists it

Nope. Steel/rock

[Draekyn]

Read swampert for some reason, i'm gonna go now. 

 

Nope. Steel/rock

[Tyrone]

The UU Council has decided to ban Charizard to BL (or in the case of PokeMMO to OU).

We feel like Charizard is banworthy under the Offensive Characteristic as it is able to sweep most of the meta without too much trouble.

The versitality of Charizard makes it incredibly hard to counter and is just too much for the UU tier.

 

On behalf of the UU Council I'd like to apologize for taking such a long time to make a decision and also thank the community for their patience and input.

 

Charizard is now banned to BL (OU)