[Denied]Gib Fairy Typing

[Robofiend]

This will probably be a controversial suggestion, but here it goes..

 

If you don't know what the Fairy type is, added in Gen VI, here's your backstory. I'll assume you've read this to avoid being overly explanatory.

 

I'll cut right to the chase, PokeMMO deserves fairy type.

 

Why?

 

Fairy type checks some really strong threats across the tiers, making for more balanced metagames. Even the GameFreak developers said Dragons are too strong and we need something that checks them without having to nerf them. Right now, there are very few disadvantages to spamming Dragon Claw or Superpower on Dragon and Fighting type pokemon. Because of this, players are often use Steel and Ghost types to beat these moves, leading to a pretty shallow pool of possible outcomes. Since lots of physical attackers can also carry Fire Blast or Fire Punch, it's incredibly easy to fire off a Dragon Claw first and then use Fire Blast if you need to take out a Skarmory. Similarly, Fighting types will carry Thief or other moves to hit Ghost types, so they miss a prediction they can just retaliate by spamming Crunch/Theif. Fairy type complicates things and balances out the relative advantages of Fighting and Dragon (and Dark) Type attacks, all of which right now are kind of hard to check with the pokemon we have.

 

We don't need fairy moves (yet), the typing would probably be enough. Sure, they won't take SE damage from anything but the pitiful Poison type, but it's not like any of them come without substantial flaws (Clefable's got middling defenses for a wall, Gardevoir is slow with bad def and Azumarill is slow and weak to the common Thunderbolt). In fact, having Fairy type moves would probably be a bad thing, given how few Steel, Poison and Fire types we have to check them.

 

Anyway, there's my suggestion, I'm ready for y'all to complain but I think it'd be a good idea.

 

 

[Kiliminati]

Having just the fairy-type without fairy type moves would be sorta awkward, and do substantially less at countering the dragons than if everything was implemented together.

 

Just my 2 cents from playing a lot of gen 6 OU though.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Kiliminati

[Gilan]

So we would have:

Azumarill
Wigglytuff
Clefable
Mauwile
Granbull
Gardevoir
Togetic
Mr. Mime


ehh, I dunno... It seems silly to me to not have fairy moves with fairy typing...
I'm not a fan of the fairy type to begin with...

Edited March 2, 2015 by Gilan

[Bestfriendss]

This will probably be a controversial suggestion, but here it goes..

 

If you don't know what the Fairy type is, added in Gen VI, here's your backstory. I'll assume you've read this to avoid being overly explanatory.

 

I'll cut right to the chase, PokeMMO deserves fairy type.

 

Why?

 

Fairy type checks some really strong threats across the tiers, making for more balanced metagames. Even the GameFreak developers said Dragons are too strong and we need something that checks them without having to nerf them. Right now, there are very few disadvantages to spamming Dragon Claw or Superpower on Dragon and Fighting type pokemon. Because of this, players are often use Steel and Ghost types to beat these moves, leading to a pretty shallow pool of possible outcomes. Since lots of physical attackers can also carry Fire Blast or Fire Punch, it's incredibly easy to fire off a Dragon Claw first and then use Fire Blast if you need to take out a Skarmory. Similarly, Fighting types will carry Thief or other moves to hit Ghost types, so they miss a prediction they can just retaliate by spamming Crunch/Theif. Fairy type complicates things and balances out the relative advantages of Fighting and Dragon (and Dark) Type attacks, all of which right now are kind of hard to check with the pokemon we have.

 

We don't need fairy moves (yet), the typing would probably be enough. Sure, they won't take SE damage from anything but the pitiful Poison type, but it's not like any of them come without substantial flaws (Clefable's got middling defenses for a wall, Gardevoir is slow with bad def and Azumarill is slow and weak to the common Thunderbolt). In fact, having Fairy type moves would probably be a bad thing, given how few Steel, Poison and Fire types we have to check them.

 

Anyway, there's my suggestion, I'm ready for y'all to complain but I think it'd be a good idea.

Mega Stone HYPING!!!!

 

Fairy typing does come with the stones, so if you are planning to make the type, then make the stones to go with it and I would be fine with the idea, otherwise, the type itself would be bland and overall, an useless debut.

 

Robo, I do support this proposal for the fairy type, but we need the stones as well.

[Munya]

Why would the stones be needed?

[CyrusZathen]

If they don't make fairy type then make mega stone :3 i would love to see my favourite pokemon gardevoir into more pretty *.*


Amd Munya mega stone make pokemon more powerful some pretty some bad@ss some just worst XD maybe your favourite pokemon have mega to so you wanted to see it in this game *-*

Edited March 2, 2015 by XelaKebert
Don't double post

[Robofiend]

Pls don't derail this into a thread about Megas, that can go elsewhere (and it's more obviously a bad idea for PokeMMO right now given how stronk most of the Megas are)

 

 

It seems silly to me to not have fairy moves with fairy typing...

 

 

My reasoning is mainly that we don't have things like Heatran, Ferrothorn, Excadrill or Scizor (with viable moves, unlike here) to check something like Moonblast/Play Rough, and the fact that it would probably be substantially harder to code these moves in as opposed to typing, which is more fundamental than the actual moves.

 

I think that the typing would be good enough to check the Dragons, all of the "best" fairies listed can learn Ice type moves, which effectively shut down Dragonite/Flygon/Salamence. For example:

 

Azumarill: Ice Punch

Granbull: Ice Punch (Return is probably better coverage tho)

Clefable: Ice Beam

Gardevoi: Icy Wind

Wigglytuff (dat NU/UU Fairy): Ice Beam

 

That said, I think that checking Fighting types is probably more important than Dragons, since Salamence and Dragonite might be too strong for OU even if we did have fairy types with their monstrous attack stats. Currently it seems a lof of OU strategy is just clearing out ghosts and Weezings so that Heracross/Medicham/Blaziken can get into battle and tear through the remaining parts of a team.

 

I'll use Heracross's stats as an example for how Clefable/Azumarill/Granbull could be useful for stopping high powered Fighting moves, since its stats are similar or slightly better than Breloom/Hitmonlee/Blaziken/other Superpower users.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-162 (35 - 41.1%) -- 71.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 140-165 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

 

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 82-97 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 92-109 (23.9 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Granbull Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 108-128 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 301-355 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(ok, so maybe Azumarill's not the best option, but then again, Heracross doesn't actually have a 120 bp Fighting STAB in this game)

 

This should be proof enough that these pokemon would at least function as checks to common problems like Endure/Reversal or straight up spamming Superpower (which became a bit of a problem for UU pre update iirc)

[Cressman]

Having just the fairy-type without fairy type moves would be sorta awkward, and do substantially less at countering the dragons than if everything was implemented together.

 

Just my 2 cents from playing a lot of gen 6 OU though.

I agree it would be rather redundant to implement the typing without moves to accompany it. However, I assume you implied that the moves would be implemented to accompany the type introduction. That being said, I feel as though if fairy type moves are implemented, I would hope other moves would also be implemented such as Belch to check such typing.

 

P.S. PokeMMO Gods pls gib Close Combat

Edited March 2, 2015 by Cressman

[Robofiend]

I agree it would be rather redundant to implement the typing without moves to accompany it. However, I assume you implied that the moves would be implemented to accompany the type introduction. That being said, I feel as though if fairy type moves are implemented, I would hope other moves would also be implemented such as Belch to check such typing.

 

Well that's the problem, right now there's not a lot of common pokemon that would actually check something like CM Clefable at +1 since we don't have many viable physical Poison/Steel type moves that really threaten Clefable. Even Salamence or Tyranitar wouldn't be able to take out Clefable if we decided to let them back into OU for some reason:

 

252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (note that it's still a 3HKO with Sand up)

252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Arcanine is the bulkiest Fire type we have and even CB max attack Flame Wheel or Return from Arcanine isn't going to scare Clefable since it has instant recovery:

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 143-169 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- 97.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

That's not to mention that all of these pokes are relying on CB, meaning they don't have passive recovery and would be move locked after hitting Clefable, so it could keep team momentum up by swapping to a counter. That's also not to mention that:

 

+1 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 356-420 (107.5 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

There is, of course, one true Clefable stopper (Metagross), but I don't think having only one pokemon that can beat Clefable regularly is healthy:

 

252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 290-344 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

It seems like Clefable would just be a better version of Slowbro since it doesn't have any weaknesses on either side of the phys/spec split except for something like weak-ass Sludge Bomb from Weezing. If Clef had to choose between Ice Beam + Tbolt/Psychic/Flamethrower (to cover Gyara, Fighting types, or Steel types) then it'd be a little more manageable once you scouted it.

[OldKeith]

No physical poison moves either to hit fairies super effective, so you will have to rely on Iron Tail? No, fairies cannot be introduced, they would mess things up badly.

[Bestfriendss]

 

Pls don't derail this into a thread about Megas, that can go elsewhere (and it's more obviously a bad idea for PokeMMO right now given how stronk most of the Megas are)

 

 

 

 

My reasoning is mainly that we don't have things like Heatran, Ferrothorn, Excadrill or Scizor (with viable moves, unlike here) to check something like Moonblast/Play Rough, and the fact that it would probably be substantially harder to code these moves in as opposed to typing, which is more fundamental than the actual moves.

 

I think that the typing would be good enough to check the Dragons, all of the "best" fairies listed can learn Ice type moves, which effectively shut down Dragonite/Flygon/Salamence. For example:

 

Azumarill: Ice Punch

Granbull: Ice Punch (Return is probably better coverage tho)

Clefable: Ice Beam

Gardevoi: Icy Wind

Wigglytuff (dat NU/UU Fairy): Ice Beam

 

That said, I think that checking Fighting types is probably more important than Dragons, since Salamence and Dragonite might be too strong for OU even if we did have fairy types with their monstrous attack stats. Currently it seems a lof of OU strategy is just clearing out ghosts and Weezings so that Heracross/Medicham/Blaziken can get into battle and tear through the remaining parts of a team.

 

I'll use Heracross's stats as an example for how Clefable/Azumarill/Granbull could be useful for stopping high powered Fighting moves, since its stats are similar or slightly better than Breloom/Hitmonlee/Blaziken/other Superpower users.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-162 (35 - 41.1%) -- 71.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 140-165 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

 

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 82-97 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 92-109 (23.9 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Granbull Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 108-128 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 301-355 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(ok, so maybe Azumarill's not the best option, but then again, Heracross doesn't actually have a 120 bp Fighting STAB in this game)

 

This should be proof enough that these pokemon would at least function as checks to common problems like Endure/Reversal or straight up spamming Superpower (which became a bit of a problem for UU pre update iirc)

 

I do apologize for my mega comment, I still feel that it is too early to introduce fairies... Unless, you either have Gen 6 pokes or have megas (please do not talk about megas, I do not want to derail this thread). I do however, want to talk about Gen 6 pokes and why they are necessary. You need some gen 6 pokes (take that cake fairy for an example) to wall off a dragon if they decide to do a power move like "Earthquake" or "Some elemental punch." I feel that fairy types should not be introduced too early for this meta to handle. Gen 6 pokes are necessary in order to beat/keep the fairies that you are facing against/are in your party. It all lies on what the developers want to do and what the TL council wants to do as well.

 

Assumptions: I know that guestimates can be unhealthy for the brain, but here are some of my guestimates on if this will be implemented or not. I am going to guess "yes" because Robo is a respected council member and his opinion is stronger than mine in the competitive scene. I do not know the results, but if we do receive the fairy type, we will have to face some difficulties on the way....

 

1. Egg Moves (unless implemented)

 

2. Carbon copy of Gen 6 except few to none pokes to counter/check the pokes that are/aren't fairies.

 

3. I already discussed Megas

 

4. If we do have "fairy" moves like "play rough" and convert clefairy's, then for new players, it is going to lead to a lot of confusion... (but, for gen 6 players, this is going to be an obstacle because they love the challenges of not having all the Gen 6 pokes).

 

There are many more concerns of mine. Robo, I do need to ask you one question, what is your plan to letting people adapt to the new "fairy" type?

 

 

OldKeith, thank you for bringing a valid point to the table, how about the Gen 6 movesets? Will there be good physical poison moves like "Poison Jab" or "Venoshock (I hope I spelt that move correctly...)?" We need physical poison moves. You can also introduce Toxicroak early if you really want to bring in the fairy type that badly. (make sure to introduce poison jab with that as well...).

[Qaztin]

We are arleady in 3/4+ gen (move split and some moves added), we got plenty of new pokes introducted with Hoenn, Mioltic is still NYI and u suggest to jump to gen 6 and add fairy type and only reasonable argument is "coz it ballance meta" and added some crazy calculations.

 

Lel dude, why fairy type :D ?

 

Firstly: in 6 gen there are 22 fairly typed pokes, here would be somethinhg under 10

 

Secondly: we got no fairy moves implemented, coz we are in 3/4+ gen

 

Thirdly: we got small ammout of any fairy moves(steel/poison type)

 

To sum up: it's to early for fairy type, it's not necessary

[felix]

No physical poison moves either to hit fairies super effective, so you will have to rely on Iron Tail? No, fairies cannot be introduced, they would mess things up badly.

I agree with Keith here, why would they give us Fairy type instead of adding IV gen moves and pokemon first?

 

[spoiler]

LF Technican Bullet Punch Scizor

[/spoiler]

 

While I'm not against Fairy typing be in this game, I do believe that is too early for that. After having moves, abilities and pokemon from IV Gen, maybe this could be discussed.

[Raseruu]

I do not Support! Sableye wouldn't be weakness-less any more! lol

of course, this is coz i love sableye :)

[Robofiend]

We are arleady in 3/4+ gen (move split and some moves added), we got plenty of new pokes introducted with Hoenn, Mioltic is still NYI and u suggest to jump to gen 6 and add fairy type and only reasonable argument is "coz it ballance meta" and added some crazy calculations.

 

Lel dude, why fairy type :D ?

Lel dude, did you read the op? It really doesn't seem like it

 

Firstly: in 6 gen there are 22 fairly typed pokes, here would be somethinhg under 10

Doesn't matter?

 

Secondly: we got no fairy moves implemented, coz we are in 3/4+ gen

I addressed this in another post

 

Thirdly: we got small ammout of any fairy moves(steel/poison type)

Wotm8

 

To sum up: it's to early for fairy type, it's not necessary

Actually you didn't make any arguments here

Edited March 2, 2015 by Robofiend

[Havsha]

This is gen 3, the split was healthy, introducing an entire new type would ruin it, in my opinion of course. I honestly don't see a need.

[Pidgeysaurus]

It's a good idea though I feel the fairy type wouldn't have an enormous impact without fairy moves being implemented. I'd prefer to see Gen IV moves, mechanics etc. being fully implemented before we take the jump towards Gen VI stuffs.

[Gilan]

isn't our type chart different than gen 6? (i.e. steel resisting dark and ghost)

So with the introduction of fairy, wouldn't we have to fully change the type chart? That would definitely be a significant change that I have no idea what the impact would be...

[Shaniqualela]

i just want gen 3 legendaries...

and then gen 4 pokemon and stealth rocks would help a lot. 

I think it would be pretty silly to skip these things and go straight to fairy typing, although i think a gen 6 pokemmo will be fun in 2069

[Cyen]

NO! We don't need FAIRIES! I'd delete this thread if I could!

[fredrichnietze]

i think fairy type would be a benefit to pokemmo as far as teiring goes. the changes in pokemon typing would be to:

clefable

wigglytuff

mr mime

azumaril

grandbull

togetic

gardevoir

mawile

 

not counting pre evo's and excluding the gen 4+ stuff. atm we have a problem in the teirs caused by dragon and fighting types being very strong with few counters. this would nerf them and give us counters we need. none of them would become problems imo with he new typing, and all the stab gen 1-3 fairy moves are non damaging. the pro's of balancing the meta outweigh the cons of programming time. lets not make the same mistake game freak did and wait until gen 6.

[Gunthug]

i think fairy type would be a benefit to pokemmo as far as teiring goes. the changes in pokemon typing would be to:

clefable

wigglytuff

mr mime

azumaril

grandbull

togetic

gardevoir

mawile

 

not counting pre evo's and excluding the gen 4+ stuff. atm we have a problem in the teirs caused by dragon and fighting types being very strong with few counters. this would nerf them and give us counters we need. none of them would become problems imo with he new typing, and all the stab gen 1-3 fairy moves are non damaging. the pro's of balancing the meta outweigh the cons of programming time. lets not make the same mistake game freak did and wait until gen 6.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Clefable would absolutely become a problem with the new typing. Nothing short of metagross would be able to handle its CM set, and metagross can only switch in on so many flamethrowers (2, I believe).

 

I think down the line, this will be a really cool introduction to the game that presents yet another fold in our extremely unique meta. But all things considered, there are things that simply must be introduced before this. Gen IV moves are the primary example that comes to mind, since physical poison and special steel moves will give a lot of pokes what they need to deal w/the new fairy typing. Honestly, gen IV pokemon may even be a prerequisite, I'm not sure. Therefore, even though this suggestion prompts a valuable discussion, it's completely premature IMO. There's no reason to expedite our expansion across different generations just to check dragon and strong fighting types in OU, when these tasks can and should be accomplished (at least for now) through tiering

[felix]

i think fairy type would be a benefit to pokemmo as far as teiring goes. the changes in pokemon typing would be to:

clefable

wigglytuff

mr mime

azumaril

grandbull

togetic

gardevoir

mawile

 

not counting pre evo's and excluding the gen 4+ stuff. atm we have a problem in the teirs caused by dragon and fighting types being very strong with few counters. this would nerf them and give us counters we need. none of them would become problems imo with he new typing, and all the stab gen 1-3 fairy moves are non damaging. the pro's of balancing the meta outweigh the cons of programming time. lets not make the same mistake game freak did and wait until gen 6.

I don't really see how fairy type would help.

 

What would really help is the bulky defensive pokemon introduced in Gen IV, lets get the list with the base def of each one, some resists Fight or Dragon, some are neutral:

 

Bronzong - 116

Dusknoir - 135

Gliscor - 125

Heatran - 106

Hippodon - 118

Magnezone - 115

Rottoms - 107

 

from those, only magnezone and heatran are weak to fighting, while Gliscor resists, Rottoms and Dusknoir are immune and the others are neutral.

none of them are weak to dragon, and Magnezone, Heatran, Bronzong resists it.

 

IMO, the lack of those pokes is the real issue atm, not a fairy type. in the future this could be added, but I think right now the lack of Gen IV pokes, items, abilities is what are making fighting and dragon moves too strong not the missing fairy typing.

Edited March 2, 2015 by felix

[fredrichnietze]

clefable counters for a cm/softboil/flamethrower/ice beam (cause dragons would theoretically come back and can 2hko clef)

max def bold

@leftovers

 

kabu

252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 91-108 (45 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 22-26 (16.1 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO

 

cb khan

252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 39-47 (18.3 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 59-70 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

belly char (4f's set from char discussion)

+6 252+ Atk Blaze Charizard Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 276-325 (136.6 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 38-45 (23 - 27.2%) -- 51.8% chance to 4HKO

 

chansey (not blissey but fucking chansey)

+6 0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey: 124-147 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- 68.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

and ofc toxic will kill clef long b4 it gets to +6 unless rest and then you can just safely switch to your cb'er to 2hko b4 clef wakes.

 

DD craudawnt

52 hp 252 att 204 speed adamant (101 stat to beat the 130 speed base pokes)

0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 26-31 (17.9 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 39-46 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- 25% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 52-61 (35.8 - 42%) -- 90.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Crawdaunt Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 126-148 (62.3 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

clef would be set up bait

 

point is clef isnt even broken in UU much less OU.

 

and @felix, i agree we need gen 4 pokes but really i think we need both.

[Cressman]

I don't really see how fairy type would help.

 

What would really help is the bulky defensive pokemon introduced in Gen IV, lets get the list with the base def of each one, some resists Fight or Dragon, some are neutral:

 

Heatran - 106

 

from those, only magnezone and heatran are weak to fighting, while Gliscor resists, Rottoms and Dusknoir are immune and the others are neutral.

none of them are weak to dragon, and Magnezone, Heatran, Bronzong resists it.

 

IMO, the lack of those pokes is the real issue atm, not a fairy type. in the future this could be added, but I think right now the lack of Gen IV pokes, items, abilities is what are making fighting and dragon moves too strong not the missing fairy typing.

 

Too bad Heatran would never be implemented in the first place, seeing as how it is a legendary pokemon.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Cressman