[UU Discussion] Magmar (Remains UU)

[DrCraig]

Why is belly drum so broken mayne?

 

The Suspect set:

Nature: Jolly / Adamant

EVs: 4HP/252ATK/252SPE or some ugly HP spread

Moveset:

-Fire Punch

-Thunder Punch

-Mach Punch

-Belly Drum

 

 

Magmar can set up in the face of most walls, but it has issues with walls with an offensive presence. Upon setting up a belly drum+sitrus, by itself, through screen support, or memento support; It has an easy time sweeping.

 

Fire and Thunder Punch at +6 sweep the tier slower than Magmar, and mach punch sweeps the pokemon faster.

 

Due to its access to mach punch, when at +6 notable counters and checks consists of Quagsire, Pikachu, Xatu, umm dur I cant think of more.

 

It DOES take support to set up Magmar, and saying it can set up in walls like Chansey's face (Chansey has poopoo offensive presence) is a given for most set up sweepers. However walls with offensive presence give it trouble if they can break past magmars HP after sitrus.

 

Does Magmar fit the offensive uber characteristics?

Is it too easy for Magmar to set up and sweep the tier?

[ThinkNice]

Yeah Quag, Pika and Xatu also:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 113-133 (55.1 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Kanga can fake out:

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 66-78 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO

 

Altaria needs to be full health doe:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 151-178 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4- Atk Altaria Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 80-96 (57.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Tenta flat out counters it after set up:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Tentacruel: 51-61 (32.6 - 39.1%) -- 13.4% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

 

Swellow checks:

252 Atk Choice Band Swellow Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 60-72 (42.8 - 51.4%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO

 

so does fearow:

252 Atk Choice Band Fearow Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 63-75 (45 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO

 

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 172 HP / 0+ Def Donphan: 162-192 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

Crobat counters with Haze:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 22-26 (11.5 - 13.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

 

[DestructX]

its either

1)run lum berry and be able to freely belly drum vs chansey or vileplume, and not be fast enough to kill haunter / swellow (quick attack) / crobat / tentacruel

 

2)run salac berry+ sub with no mach punch and just assume your opponent wont know its a belly drum set and lets you sub ( why else run magmar? )

 

3) run any magmar and just get walled by quagsire

Edited May 17, 2015 by DestructX

[LionKIng]

 

Yeah Quag, Pika and Xatu also:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 113-133 (55.1 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Kanga can fake out:

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 66-78 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO

 

Altaria needs to be full health doe:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 151-178 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4- Atk Altaria Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 80-96 (57.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Tenta flat out counters it after set up:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Tentacruel: 51-61 (32.6 - 39.1%) -- 13.4% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

 

Swellow checks:

252 Atk Choice Band Swellow Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 60-72 (42.8 - 51.4%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO

 

so does fearow:

252 Atk Choice Band Fearow Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 63-75 (45 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO

 

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 172 HP / 0+ Def Donphan: 162-192 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

Crobat counters with Haze:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 22-26 (11.5 - 13.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

 

 

id say people use adamant swellow over jolly tbh , so id do the calcs accordingly

[DoubleJ]

Timid 252+ Tenta kicks its ass.

[Toast]

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Swellow: 111-131 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Swellow Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 169-199 (119.8 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[DoubleJ]

Ya the faster flying birds remarkably have a good deal of bulk to take that Mach Punch. Here's to hoping they can set up. The only scary thing that is related to Magmar is that it can set up on so much. I'm going to write up a better post in support of keeping it around later tonight though. 

 

Wall of text is gonna come, prepare yourselves. 

[Robofiend]

>Use all walls

>Die to wallbreaker

>Complain

>Ban

>Repeat

 

The way of UU  :)

[DoubleJ]

>Use all walls
>Die to wallbreaker
>Complain
>Ban
>Repeat

The way of UU :)

Essentially.

[DrCraig]

Hey, it was a commission. I got paid to make this topic.

[Bestfriends]

 

 

The Suspect set:

Nature: Jolly / Adamant

EVs: 4HP/252ATK/252SPE or some ugly HP spread

Moveset:

-Fire Punch

-Thunder Punch

-Mach Punch

-Belly Drum

 

 

I might have to disagree with the Doctor. Magmar can be countered, Quagsire, Kanga's Fake Out CBed, bulky Lanturn, Altaria (for some reason, I don't see this bird used often), etc. Magmar has plenty of counters to keep it in check. I do agree that Belly Drum is overpowered, but the Drum makes decent to good offensive pokes overpowered.

 

My verdict: This fire breathing two legged duck should stay in UU because its not really worthy to be moved. Even though I see where the Doc is coming from, I still see plenty of counters for this duck. 

[Gunthug]

Currently Open UU discussion threads:

Zangoose
Kingler

Kanghaskan

Hitmonlee

Houndoom

Magmar

 

UU Council: Can we pick three of these and close them?

[DrCraig]

I might have to disagree with the Doctor. Magmar can be countered, Quagsire, Kanga's Fake Out CBed, bulky Lanturn, Altaria (for some reason, I don't see this bird used often), etc. Magmar has plenty of counters to keep it in check. I do agree that Belly Drum is overpowered, but the Drum makes decent to good offensive pokes overpowered.

My verdict: This fire breathing two legged duck should stay in UU because its not really worthy to be moved. Even though I see where the Doc is coming from, I still see plenty of counters for this duck.

I never said I supported a ban.

Currently Open UU discussion threads:
Zangoose
Kingler
Kanghaskan
Hitmonlee
Houndoom
Magmar

UU Council: Can we pick three of these and close them?

Zangoose, Kingler, Kanga bye

By the way, for the sake of this being a discussion, what seperates this from the Linoone ban? Sure it doesn't have +2 priority, but does it really need to worry about that since it is so fast? Is it Magmars lack of bulk and shit typing? Is it because Magmar has the 'it can't be THAT good' stigma? Linoone had a solid, but small, list of counters also, but was still a problem.

Edit: and please I hope to god u guys take more away from this than "omg Craig think magmar is as good as linoone, what stinking idiot" Edited May 18, 2015 by DrCraig

[Gunthug]

By the way, for the sake of this being a discussion, what seperates this from the Linoone ban? Sure it doesn't have +2 priority, but does it really need to worry about that since it is so fast? Is it Magmars lack of bulk and shit typing? Is ot because Magmar has the 'it can't be THAT good' stigma? Linoone had a solid, but small, list of counters also, but was still a problem.

Well, linoone had +2 STAB priority. +6 magmar's only priority doesnt even 1hko a damn swellow. The fact that extremespeed completely rendered priority useless (aside from fake out I believe) made linoone extremely scary

Edited May 18, 2015 by Gunthug

[fredrichnietze]

>Use all walls

>Die to wallbreaker

>Complain

>Ban no ban

>more complain

>Repeat

 

The way of UU  :)

k

 

Currently Open UU discussion threads:

Zangoose
Kingler

Kanghaskan

Hitmonlee

Houndoom

Magmar

 

UU Council: Can we pick three of these and close them?

kingler is the only yhing on here that maybe needs looking at under microscope. rest are fine imo. if i had to choose it would be mag, khan, zangoose.

[gbwead]

 

Crobat counters with Haze:

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 22-26 (11.5 - 13.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

 

 

I don't know much about Crobat in UU but I am curious to know in what set crobat needs 248 HP over SpAtk or Speed.

 

IF Crobat is Ev Atk:

 

252 Atk Crobat Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 71-84 (50.7 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edited May 18, 2015 by lamerb

[DoubleJ]

Magmar, the secret weapon of UU that is finally getting some shine because a few people said, "hey that might be good", and holy hell it is good. Ok so it has a great speed stat of 159 with Jolly, beating damn near the entire tier including the mighty Zangoose and Pikachu at the base 90 tier. STAB Fire Punch isn't all that special being only 75 base power and also Fire, which is resisted by 39 different types. Unfortunately it is also accompanied by Thunder Punch which provides exceptional coverage. Toss in access to Cross Chop or Mach Punch and voila, perfect coverage. 

 

Now that we've established great coverage and possible +1 priority on a fast poke, we need to take the next step and determine why this thing is considered "good". Let's have a look at the most dangerous move in the game, Belly Drum. 

 

Belly Drum instantaneously boosts the Attack stat to +6 by removing half that pokemon's health. This is a risky play considering 2HKO's aren't uncommon, but there is also the wonderful item known as a Sitrus Berry which automatically tosses you 25% health back when you dip below 50%. So now the things we can set-up on expand. Let's take a look at a few of these things in UU.

 

Damn near every special wall. This includes Chansey, Clefable, Hypno, Misdreavus, and Sableye. These pokes rely on weak STABs, weak Tbolts, or resisted Flamethrower and Ice Beam. They are too slow to effectively Taunt Magmar and are simply set-up bait. Seismic Toss is common on Chansey, and well...

 

Common pokes like Vileplume, Porygon2 (even 252+ Tri-Attack), Houndoom, Bulky Exeggutor, Manectric, and Breloom are all set-up bait, unable to do over 75% damage allowing for Sitrus + Belly Drum to work with a full health Magmar.

 

Scarier than that is the fact that Mach Punch/Pursuit Choice Band locked Hitmonlee is also set-up bait for Magmar. Revenge kill a ghost? Oh here comes Magmar to ruin your entire tournament since it is faster and can revenge kill you with Mach Punch. 

 

252 Atk Choice Band Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 76-90 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 121-143 (96 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

Ok so now that we have it established that Belly Drum Magmar can set up on pretty much the entire tier let's take a look at what it can't set up on.

 

Water-types, anything with a STAB Super Effective Attack, EQ, and all things Choice Banded with an attack that has a power of 75 or higher (looking at you Thunderpunch). On the list of common pokes, this includes Steelix, Claydol, Kangaskhan, Omastar, Quagsire, Altaria, Lanturn, Blastoise, etc. So there is a good chunk it can't set up on too.

 

What about when it set's up? What can you do then? Well this isn't Linoone with a +2 Priority STAB with Base 80 Power. This is a slightly fast poke with a shitty priority attack, a weak STAB, and a similarly weak coverage move.

 

Anything Faster that resists Mach Punch can beat it. This list includes Tentacruel (it's primary counter), Xatu, Haunter, Crobat, and Ninjask. Also anything faster with priority can typically kill Magmar since after a Belly Drum it will usually have around 25% health. This list includes Fearow, Swellow, Sneasel, and Scyther. So we aren't too scared after it sets up so long as we have one of these lying around. Also included is Extremespeed Pikachu which has greater priority and hits pretty freaking hard. 

 

Aside from requiring blinding speed there are a couple pokes that actually live +6 attacks and can kill it in return. This list includes Bulky Donphan, Altaria, Quagsire, and Lanturn. 

 

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Donphan: 141-166 (71.5 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 150-178 (82.4 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 117-138 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 159-187 (76.8 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

So looking back there is a lot that can stop Magmar after it sets up. My advice here, do your scouting and if this thing becomes popular carry something to handle it. A lot (all) of these pokemon are not gimmicks and kill it with standard movesets. 

 

Some other pain in the ass shit for Magmar includes Spikes, Status moves like Twave and Toxic (Sitrus Berry too OP), and also the ability Static which can give you a headache on the Mach Punch sweep. 

 

 

tl;dr We aren't talking about Linoone. This is a wall breaker that destroys wall teams but has trouble with aggressive teams. Hell opposing teams don't have to be aggressive they just have to carry a Tentacruel, Xatu, or Scyther with a bit of health to survive that resisted +6 Mach Punch. Magmar is best late game when its counters are removed, but honestly, what late game sweeper isn't?

 

My assessment: No reason to ban something that simply does its job well, but has multiple checks, revenge killers, and down right counters. 

[Bestfriends]

Magmar, the secret weapon of UU that is finally getting some shine because a few people said, "hey that might be good", and holy hell it is good. Ok so it has a great speed stat of 159 with Jolly, beating damn near the entire tier including the mighty Zangoose and Pikachu at the base 90 tier. STAB Fire Punch isn't all that special being only 75 base power and also Fire, which is resisted by 39 different types. Unfortunately it is also accompanied by Thunder Punch which provides exceptional coverage. Toss in access to Cross Chop or Mach Punch and voila, perfect coverage. 

 

Now that we've established great coverage and possible +1 priority on a fast poke, we need to take the next step and determine why this thing is considered "good". Let's have a look at the most dangerous move in the game, Belly Drum. 

 

Belly Drum instantaneously boosts the Attack stat to +6 by removing half that pokemon's health. This is a risky play considering 2HKO's aren't uncommon, but there is also the wonderful item known as a Sitrus Berry which automatically tosses you 25% health back when you dip below 50%. So now the things we can set-up on expand. Let's take a look at a few of these things in UU.

 

Damn near every special wall. This includes Chansey, Clefable, Hypno, Misdreavus, and Sableye. These pokes rely on weak STABs, weak Tbolts, or resisted Flamethrower and Ice Beam. They are too slow to effectively Taunt Magmar and are simply set-up bait. Seismic Toss is common on Chansey, and well...

 

Common pokes like Vileplume, Porygon2 (even 252+ Tri-Attack), Houndoom, Bulky Exeggutor, Manectric, and Breloom are all set-up bait, unable to do over 75% damage allowing for Sitrus + Belly Drum to work with a full health Magmar.

 

Scarier than that is the fact that Mach Punch/Pursuit Choice Band locked Hitmonlee is also set-up bait for Magmar. Revenge kill a ghost? Oh here comes Magmar to ruin your entire tournament since it is faster and can revenge kill you with Mach Punch. 

 

252 Atk Choice Band Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magmar: 76-90 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 121-143 (96 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

Ok so now that we have it established that Belly Drum Magmar can set up on pretty much the entire tier let's take a look at what it can't set up on.

 

Water-types, anything with a STAB Super Effective Attack, EQ, and all things Choice Banded with an attack that has a power of 75 or higher (looking at you Thunderpunch). On the list of common pokes, this includes Steelix, Claydol, Kangaskhan, Omastar, Quagsire, Altaria, Lanturn, Blastoise, etc. So there is a good chunk it can't set up on too.

 

What about when it set's up? What can you do then? Well this isn't Linoone with a +2 Priority STAB with Base 80 Power. This is a slightly fast poke with a shitty priority attack, a weak STAB, and a similarly weak coverage move.

 

Anything Faster that resists Mach Punch can beat it. This list includes Tentacruel (it's primary counter), Xatu, Haunter, Crobat, and Ninjask. Also anything faster with priority can typically kill Magmar since after a Belly Drum it will usually have around 25% health. This list includes Fearow, Swellow, Sneasel, and Scyther. So we aren't too scared after it sets up so long as we have one of these lying around. Also included is Extremespeed Pikachu which has greater priority and hits pretty freaking hard. 

 

Aside from requiring blinding speed there are a couple pokes that actually live +6 attacks and can kill it in return. This list includes Bulky Donphan, Altaria, Quagsire, and Lanturn. 

 

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Donphan: 141-166 (71.5 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 150-178 (82.4 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 117-138 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 159-187 (76.8 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

So looking back there is a lot that can stop Magmar after it sets up. My advice here, do your scouting and if this thing becomes popular carry something to handle it. A lot (all) of these pokemon are not gimmicks and kill it with standard movesets. 

 

Some other pain in the ass shit for Magmar includes Spikes, Status moves like Twave and Toxic (Sitrus Berry too OP), and also the ability Static which can give you a headache on the Mach Punch sweep. 

 

 

tl;dr We aren't talking about Linoone. This is a wall breaker that destroys wall teams but has trouble with aggressive teams. Hell opposing teams don't have to be aggressive they just have to carry a Tentacruel, Xatu, or Scyther with a bit of health to survive that resisted +6 Mach Punch. Magmar is best late game when its counters are removed, but honestly, what late game sweeper isn't?

 

My assessment: No reason to ban something that simply does its job well, but has multiple checks, revenge killers, and down right counters. 

 

You phrased my point a bit better, thanks DoubleJ for helping me with my point. So, Magmar may be scary, but its not ban worthy. There are just as many counters for Magmar as there is for good use of it. Like DoubleJ states: "No reason to ban something that simply does its job well, but has multiple checks, revenge killers, and down right counters"(DoubleJ).

[Gunthug]

Add physically defensive grumpig to your list of pokes that can handle it even at +6

 

+6 252 Atk Magmar ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Grumpig: 158-186 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+6 252 Atk Magmar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Thick Fat Grumpig: 118-139 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Psychic only does about 40% though (sry I exited the calc and am lazy), so it would likely have to come in on a weakened magmar to actually kill it. Good write up though, JJ, I completely agree with your assessment

[LionKIng]

[quote name="Gunthug" post="1059375" timestamp="1431917104"]

Currently Open UU discussion threads:
Zangoose
Kingler
Kanghaskan
Hitmonlee
Houndoom
Magmar

UU Council: Can we pick three of these and close them?[/quote]
silly how all of them except one is wall breakers

[quote name="DrCraig" post="1059400" timestamp="1431920313"]

I never said I supported a ban.

Zangoose, Kingler, Kanga bye

By the way, for the sake of this being a discussion, what seperates this from the Linoone ban? Sure it doesn't have +2 priority, but does it really need to worry about that since it is so fast? Is it Magmars lack of bulk and shit typing? Is it because Magmar has the 'it can't be THAT good' stigma? Linoone had a solid, but small, list of counters also, but was still a problem.

Edit: and please I hope to god u guys take more away from this than "omg Craig think magmar is as good as linoone, what stinking idiot"[/quote]
difference with magmar and linoone is magmar can't set up on just anyone , linoone had that normal typing that magmar doesnt have...and that stab espeed can't be compared to magmars mach punch , it doesnt even kill all the stuff thats faster then him


i also find this thread ironic because magmar wasnt even listed on the UU viablity thread untill i used it in the finals of an official...why always try to ban the wall breakers lmao

Edited May 18, 2015 by Noad

[DoubleJ]

silly how all of them except one is wall breakers

 

Well with the right build they all are

[NikhilR]

Not to be a uguu here, but I find it funny how ppl say "Oh you run a wall team, lol so you deserve to get swept". That is in no way true. A 252hp/attk Magmar can set up vs something like plume, chansey, misd or whatever pokemon it faces and if it carries salac berry, then the move that you hit it with, puts it in salac range thus making it sweepable. I've seen most ppl run calcs with jolly magmar but an Adamant magar with +1 speed would ohko most of these pokemon like grumpig, altaria etc. This would also beat pacy pokemon like tentacruel/xatu as well. L

 

The problem with pokemon like Magmar and Linoone isn't just its ability to sweep wall teams, but every team in general. If you're so hell bent on breaking wall teams, why not run a bellydrum azumarill / quagsire. They have quite a few set up bait as well but the difference between this and magmar is how it doesn't outpace half of the metagame. For pokemon like azu/quag, you can bring a fast pokemon like manectric, tenta, haunter, xatu, swellow and force that pokemon to switch out. That is your wall breaker.

 

Linoone could get walled by misd/haunter/steelix yet it gets banned. I get that espeed priority beats other pokemon but it's not like it doesn't have counters. Last time I checked Magmar has higher base spdef and attack than Linoone, giving it more set up opportunities. 

 

Linoone and Magmar are just down right broken, I don't think it's convenient to run physically defensive grumpig in this meta or donphan because lets be honest, with all these gligars, exeggutors, vileplumes, claydols running around, donphan just gets shat all over. Also again, I like how people are mentioning "oh you run wall teams" but their answer to beat magmar are basically walls like grumpig, donphan, altaria. 

 

If people are so concerned with wall teams, why not bring back Linoone because from what I read, if you run an offensive team then you can stop Linoone from setting up. Problem solved.

Edited May 18, 2015 by NikhilR

[felix]

i also find this thread ironic because magmar wasnt even listed on the UU viablity thread untill i used it in the finals of an official...why always try to ban the wall breakers lmao

Yeah, i was laughing about that, or the viability thread is useless, or this thread is pointless.

 

stuff

well, the idea of bring a fast poke that can setup easily on wallish team is just for that, break wallish teams.

 

if you don't wanna use def oriented donphan is your problem been swept by a magmar. It will probably become more common (maybe not), you have to deal with it.

 

Seems like it was used in one single tournament, no one was expecting that, a slow meta like ours needs time to adapt.

 

[spoiler]

I just don't understand why we are discussing about a 8% usage poke, and not about some pokes with 45%+ usage.

 

the council should have banned them by usage without even a discussion imo.

[/spoiler]

[NikhilR]

 

well, the idea of bring a fast poke that can setup easily on wallish team is just for that, break wallish teams.

 

if you don't wanna use def oriented donphan is your problem been swept by a magmar. It will probably become more common (maybe not), you have to deal with it.

 

Seems like it was used in one single tournament, no one was expecting that, a slow meta like ours needs time to adapt.

 

[spoiler]

I just don't understand why we are discussing about a 8% usage poke, and not about some pokes with 45%+ usage.

 

the council should have banned them by usage without even a discussion imo.

[/spoiler]

 

A 252attk/speed jolly quagsire/azumarill can also set up on walls and are faster than most walls in general. 

 

Well hey, by that logic if you don't want to run steelix to stop Linoone then that is your problem, correct? I don't see any use a 252hp/def Donphan has in our current meta atm. 

 

It's not been used in just one tournament. Used in 3 as far as I know. I got swept once by it when it set up on my cacturne. I realized its power and told Joey to make one. Lion used it vs Osuki in the finals and then in the next tournament Joey used it vs Osuki and both times it resulted in a win.

 

The reason for the low usage is because of how ppl don't have sufficient comps. Pokemon like vileplume have several natures it can choose from while magmar needs egg moves like bdrum and mach and nature of adamant/jolly. It is something that wasn't bred much before the split, hence the reason why you find low usage for it.  

Edited May 18, 2015 by NikhilR

[DrCraig]

silly how all of them except one is wall breakers


difference with magmar and linoone is magmar can't set up on just anyone , linoone had that normal typing that magmar doesnt have...and that stab espeed can't be compared to magmars mach punch , it doesnt even kill all the stuff thats faster then him


i also find this thread ironic because magmar wasnt even listed on the UU viablity thread untill i used it in the finals of an official...why always try to ban the wall breakers lmao

Yeah, i was laughing about that, or the viability thread is useless, or this thread is pointless.
 

well, the idea of bring a fast poke that can setup easily on wallish team is just for that, break wallish teams.
 
if you don't wanna use def oriented donphan is your problem been swept by a magmar. It will probably become more common (maybe not), you have to deal with it.
 
Seems like it was used in one single tournament, no one was expecting that, a slow meta like ours needs time to adapt.
 
[spoiler]
I just don't understand why we are discussing about a 8% usage poke, and not about some pokes with 45%+ usage.
 
the council should have banned them by usage without even a discussion imo.
[/spoiler]

Or I forgot Magmar on my viability and coincidently overheard people talking about discussing it so I made the thread. You guys are all moral tier overlord psychics, I apologize for making a thread. No harm in...discussion...