[UU Discussion] Chansey

[DrCraig]

That other fat uguu

 

Common Sets Include:

 

Cleric Chansey

Item: Leftovers

Nature: Bold

EVs: 252HP 252DEF

-Softboil

-Aromatherapy

-Seismic Toss / Counter

-Toxic / Counter

 

Wish Support Chansey

Cleric Fat uguu

Item: Leftovers

Nature: Bold

EVs: 252HP 252DEF

-Wish

-Protect

-Seismic Toss / Counter

-Toxic / Counter

 

Too Poor To Afford Wish Chansey

Item: Leftovers

Nature: Bold

EVs: 252HP 252DEF

-Softboil

-Protect

-Seismic Toss / Counter

-Toxic / Counter

 

**Other sets can include Defense Curl or Growl to not get trapped by Trapinch. Mostly lame ass gimmicks.

 

 

Chansey is a fat uguu that walls a lot. Chansey hard most special attackers and has a lot of physical bulk compared to other special walls in the tier. Although it walls everything it has little offense pressure, but enough to cripple opponents.

 

 

I thought it was worth discussing whether it fit the defensive characteristics for uber. 

Defensive Ubers:

Defensive Characteristic

A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame

 

 

Or would it be a situation mirroring Umbreon? The thing is Chansey's lack of offensive pressure. It can't trap like Umby.

Basic Criteria for being Unhealthy:

Is it too good not to use?

 

Does it limit teambuilding?

 

Does it force the metagame to stagnate, resulting in an unevolving metagame

 

Does it's presence alone make certain archetypes/playstyles non-viable?

 

 

[spoiler]Just sparking discussion, not advocating a ban with my heart and soul. I'll read and comment, but I don't have a solid stance.

Not in the mood to type a paragraph, but I'm in the mood to make you guys. :)[/spoiler]

Edited May 29, 2015 by DrCraig

[DoubleJ]

Craig stahp.

Edit: maybe it's time to start "JJ Bored at Work" again to open threads revolving around pokemon sets, rather than open discussion threads that will be closed after a month cuz there is no way these bans are gonna happen. Chansey has no offense and is easily trapped by many pokes if you just use your imagination.

Edited May 29, 2015 by DoubleJ

[Gilvy]

yea I can't sweep with my special attackers, ban this or put nurse joy in this game

[RysPicz]

yea I can't sweep with my special attackers, ban this or put nurse joy in this game

Pair them with Trapinch or Diglett.

Problem solved ;)

 

On a more topic-related note, J's (a'ka JJ) right, it literally has no offense outside of Toxic and Seismic Toss, which makes it insanely predictable. It maybe is an annoying fat uguu, but that is what she is supposed to be and I also don't see any way for the ban to happen.

[DoubleJ]

On an unrelated note, I'm still JJ and I actually prefer that.

=)

[JonazDK]

isn't chansey often a free switch in for a physical sweeper?

[OrangeManiac]

Chansey is quite a problematic case tiering wise, imo. Yeah, if you really teambuild against it bringing 5/6 powerful physical attackers then you can just laugh at Blissey and that's that. So yeah, at best it can feel like easily the worst Pokemon as the opposing threat. But something like Chansey is in my opinion really bad for the metagame itself. I've been trying to out multiple UU teams and without a question the most effective one I had didn't have just majority of the Pokemon as physical attackers, but a whole of 5 physical attackers. Basically there were really no point of not doing that. There isn't a physical wall that makes you opt to go to special attacking side so it would be relatively balanced both ways (Steelix is good but breakable with many physical attackers). So as a meta wise, a metagame that encourages to run physical offense over special isn't quite right in my opinion. I'd say UU metagame would be better without a Chansey there.

But looking at usage statistics, I can't entirely say this is the case with other people. There are plenty of high used known special attackers but a lot of them have a possibility to also be physical (such as Tentacruel, Houndoom as well as Exeggcutor and Claydol can go boom) so I can't entirely say objectively looking at stats that Chansey has made special attackers unviable. So it might be just how I feel.

[fredrichnietze]

alright so there is multiple reasons for something to be banned.

• offensive characteristics
• defensive characteristics
• support characteristics
• "centralizing"
• and unhealthy for the meta game

some people count the last two as the same but in my mind they arent. centralizing is unhealthy, but not all unhealthy moves/pokemon are centralizing. 

chansey is not offensive, chansey is not support, defensive can be argued here, but the last two take time. we banned quiet a few things in a short amount of time and there has bee about a month since the last ban in UU. in order to see if something is or is not centralizing/unhealthy we need a lot of data over a long amount of time to see what changes happen and how it influences the tier. because of this the best way to deal with things that may or may not be #4&5 is to deal with everything else that is a problem first then wait and see(read test) the tier with the pokemon in it. quagsire when curse came out seemed very unhealthy for a while, and then hp grass everything was bred and everyone bred quag counters. however if we acted hasty and banned quag we would never have seen those solutions.

so while i personally dislike and will never use a chansey, im against doing anything about it at the moment unless it can be argued to be uber defensive. once we get the teir balanced, we'll look at chansey under a microscope for a few months.

 

edit: i feel like i should give senile some credit for this post

Edited May 29, 2015 by fredrichnietze

[ThinkNice]

Chansey should be banned because it makes matches take long...

[DoubleJ]

Lf Guts user in UU...
wait...

[Senile]

alright so there is multiple reasons for something to be banned.

• offensive characteristics
• defensive characteristics
• support characteristics
• "centralizing"
• and unhealthy for the meta game

some people count the last two as the same but in my mind they arent. centralizing is unhealthy, but not all unhealthy moves/pokemon are centralizing. 

chansey is not offensive, chansey is not support, defensive can be argued here, but the last two take time. we banned quiet a few things in a short amount of time and there has bee about a month since the last ban in UU. in order to see if something is or is not centralizing/unhealthy we need a lot of data over a long amount of time to see what changes happen and how it influences the tier. because of this the best way to deal with things that may or may not be #4&5 is to deal with everything else that is a problem first then wait and see(read test) the tier with the pokemon in it. quagsire when curse came out seemed very unhealthy for a while, and then hp grass everything was bred and everyone bred quag counters. however if we acted hasty and banned quag we would never have seen those solutions.

so while i personally dislike and will never use a chansey, im against doing anything about it at the moment unless it can be argued to be uber defensive. once we get the teir balanced, we'll look at chansey under a microscope for a few months.

 

edit: i feel like i should give senile some credit for this post

centralizing isn't a reason to ban something m8. Something being "too centralizing" is just an argument that falls under unhealthy. The 5th reason you're looking for is "uncompetitive", not centralizing.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Senile

[Tyrone]

Lf Guts user in UU...
wait...

Swellow says hi

 

On topic:

I believe Chansey is a worse version of Umbreon when it comes down to special wall. It can take special attacks all day, cleanse status and heal itself (others) with softboiled or wish while spreading status among the other team.

Not convinced it should be banned, but it does indeed create a slower metagame focussed around physical hitters.

 

Edit:

Due to https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/54049-uu-tier-discussion-request-thread/

This thread will be locked.

If you wish for Chansey to be discussed, please let us know in that thread.