[OU Discussion] Chansey (Remains OU)

[Spaintakula]

This is another DoubleJ POV of the OU meta, but it might be somewhat helpful. I honestly feel like Chansey doesn't fit that "too good not to use" mold that has gotten things like Snorlax and Blissey banned. I haven't ever used one, even during my recent 2nd place run through the MVP Cup or my championship run in the OU Showdown series. There are very valuable special walls outside of Chansey that offer the metagame more than just a wish pass and a pivot. Porygon2 is an incredible Gyarados counter, and has the versatility to keep things like Metagross from freely switching in (HP Fire and Thunderwave). 

 

So with that said, imo, Chansey should probs stay in the tier. It's a great defensive option in a tier with some fairly scary special threats, but it really isn't much more beyond that. Sure, if both parties are uncreative and run the same Chansey stall team there will be a 200-turn match, but as evidenced in recent OU tournaments, players are learning how to get creative with their wallbreakers and you're starting to see some truly unique sets (WHICH IS FUCKING AWESOME!). 

 

tl;dr I like to beat chansey teams. Keep 'em around.

 

[spoiler] Shameless plug to bring back Snorlax [/spoiler]

Haven't been around lately to see those unique sets, but that's exactly what we need. Chansey is just the easiest choice when you teambuild, I'd rather focus on building more complex teams that don't always go around chansey. And I know I'm not the only one. But yeah, unique sets, more variety, glad to hear that's going on, and chansey should say in my opinion.

[KaynineXL]

I think there are a lot of special walls you can pick from, and you should consider what they do and how they can help your team before instantly picking Chansey, just because everyone else uses it.

 

Chansey - Well, it's got wish and aroma, it's probably the most supportive special wall, usually guts users such as Ursa, Slaking, Weezing, Forretress all appreciate wish support.

Porygon - The best thing I like about this for me is the fact it's a Gyarados counter, and I really do have a hard time finding that in a team, especially with my play style. It's definitely a good Sp wall, and I see a decent amount of people picking it up.

Gardevoir - It can wish support, it's not as good as Chansey at actually supporting since it doesn't get natures cure and it doesn't have the bulk, but it is one of the better pokes to challenge Growth Venu which has become fairly popular, Chansey could switch to Twave and deal with Venusaur, but then it doesn't have that precious toxic which could save it from being swept by CM Slowbro or from being able to to kill Growth+Wish Jolteon.

Espeon - I think this deserves a mention because although it's probably not as reliable as other special walls, it's great for Venusaur. It's a much more offensive special wall than the others, so if that's your play style it can be good. This one does need to have some team preparation around it though. Not even sure I'd call it a special wall, maybe a bulky sp atker, unless of course you simply run it without any bulk.

 

I'm just saying, there is variety in special walls, they all do different things better than each other, and I think it's going to start showing a lot more soon. Each special wall has its unique part it can play, I feel the good people will figure out which is right for their team. Bottom line is, I don't think Chansey is 'too good to not use'. 

 

I think it's time for the TC to decide.

Edited March 17, 2016 by KaynineXL

[BurntZebra]

I think there are a lot of special walls you can pick from, and you should consider what they do and how they can help your team before instantly picking Chansey, just because everyone else uses it.

 

Chansey - Well, it's got wish and aroma, it's probably the most supportive special wall, usually guts users such as Ursa, Slaking, Weezing, Forretress all appreciate wish support.

Porygon - The best thing I like about this for me is the fact it's a Gyarados counter, and I really do have a hard time finding that in a team, especially with my play style. It's definitely a good Sp wall, and I see a decent amount of people picking it up.

Gardevoir - It can wish support, it's not as good as Chansey at actually supporting since it doesn't get natures cure and it doesn't have the bulk, but it is one of the better pokes to challenge Growth Venu which has become fairly popular, Chansey could switch to Twave and deal with Venusaur, but then it doesn't have that precious toxic which could save it from being swept by CM Slowbro or from being able to to kill Growth+Wish Jolteon.

Espeon - I think this deserves a mention because although it's probably not as reliable as other special walls, it's great for Venusaur. It's a much more offensive special wall than the others, so if that's your play style it can be good. This one does need to have some team preparation around it though. Not even sure I'd call it a special wall, maybe a bulky sp atker, unless of course you simply run it without any bulk.

 

I'm just saying, there is variety in special walls, they all do different things better than each other, and I think it's going to start showing a lot more soon. Each special wall has its unique part it can play, I feel the good people will figure out which is right for their team. Bottom line is, I don't think Chansey is 'too good to not use'. 

 

I think it's time for the TC to decide.

We have a decision, just in the process of writing up a suitable justification. 

[fredrichnietze]

We have a decision, just in the process of writing up a suitable justification. 

isnt that backwards?

 

causing controversy with one sentence since 32nd century bc

Edited March 19, 2016 by fredrichnietze

[KaynineXL]

isnt that backwards?

?

[DoubleJ]

?

 

Fred's referencing the fact that they are thinking about how to verbalize a justification for whatever decision they've made, which is kind of odd since they should have a pretty clear idea of why they are making this decision in the first place. 

 

Tier council gonna tier. 

[BurntZebra]

Fred's referencing the fact that they are thinking about how to verbalize a justification for whatever decision they've made, which is kind of odd since they should have a pretty clear idea of why they are making this decision in the first place.

Tier council gonna tier.

Just some miscommunication between tier council members and staff on what the write up should look like. Not sure you can really make tier council look bad with your tiering decisions.

[KaynineXL]

yo plebs chansey is not banned cus it ent OP

 

I wrote it for you.

[Robofiend]

Just some miscommunication between tier council members and staff on what the write up should look like. Not sure you can really make tier council look bad with your tiering decisions.

OOOOO SICK BURN ALERT

 

Also yeah he was talking about the fact that when I don't do the write up everything goes to shit, not that we just flipped a coin and then try to justify why that outcome decides Chansey's fate.

[DoubleJ]

*flips coin, "ok guys, let's not ban chansey"

 

=)

[Tyrone]

The Tier Council has thoroughly discussed the current state of the OU metagame and the effect Chansey has on it during our latest meeting. We have decided to not ban Chansey from OU. 

 

After a discussion almost longer than Chansey's brethren, Snorlax and Blissey, the Tier Council felt it was time to make a decision about chansey. Currently, Chansey is standing at about 40% usage rate which raises suspicion, but obviously isn't an instant indicator of it being banworthy, as Metagross has higher usage and a similar amount of centralization.The Tier Council considers Chansey as an easy way to protect one's team from special sweepers, but Chansey also opens up the door for many offensive powerhouses, meaning there is some penalty to running Chansey on every team. There are very few Pokemon that can work as special walls against these very powerful special attackers, limiting it mainly only to Chansey, Umbreon and Porygon2. Because Chansey does this job most reliably, it tends to get picked as the Pokemon in a lot of players' teams.

 

Because Chansey deals reliably low damage for having only Seismic Toss and a status move as attacking moves, it doesn't exactly "beat" a lot of the Pokemon it seemingly walls. The OU tier has fair amount of viable physical threats that can punish Chansey hard and its usual companion Weezing such as Metagross, Ursaring, Blaziken, Rhydon, and even Machamp. In addition, special offense isn't completely walled down by Chansey either. Growth Venusaur has become a common way to beat Chansey, which the Tier Council considers fairly viable in the current meta. Other options include calm mind Alakazam, growth+wish Jolteon, haunter, and even choice band trick Starmie. As Chansey can't even consistently beat special attackers, it also has a hard time taking on defensive pokemon. Pokemon like Gardevoir, Venusaur, and Weezing have little to nothing fear from Chansey, and can even take advantage of its lack of offense.

 

While Chansey is a Pokemon you can add to various teams to protect from strong special offense, it is not entirely fool proof. Trapinch is an example of a Pokemon you can add to a team to beat Chansey if your team isn't exactly build to beat it. 

 

As the discussion of Chansey was debating it's unhealthiness, a Chanseyless metagame must be considered as well. Considering the role Chansey is used for, it is only logical people would begin to use Umbreon or Porygon2 instead, to wall these strong special attackers, such as Espeon, Alakazam, Starmie, and Jolteon. Nothing would change majorly, as there would still be a special wall in everyone's team just to beat these Pokemon. In some cases, these special attacking Pokemon get even less viable, as Porygon2 has the offense to beat them, and Umbreon has the ability to limit their switch ins with a stab pursuit. A special wall-less metagame would nullify any kind of defensive archetypes from the OU metagame and that is not healthy for the tier either. Because Chansey isn't considered overpowering (meaning it would cause you to win by using it because of being so good on its own, and it being too good not to run, by extension) by the Tier Council, such removal of a Pokemon does not serve any purpose in our efforts to create a better metagame.

 

Because of these reasons, Chansey is not considered unhealthy or overcentralizing for the tier, and the Tier Council will not ban Chansey for the time being.