[OU Discussion] Chansey (Remains OU)

[DrCraig]

Yeah and that's Chansey. Look at this from my point of view: if people are reaching for Trapinch to deal with Chansey, something is obviously very wrong

Chansey is not pushing you into a corner and forcing you to run Trapinch. Trapinch is simply an easy way to dispose of Chansey once you have scouted your opponent, similar to how Magneton functions. Blindly running Trapinch can easily be a wasted slot in a team since Trapinch has little to no use otherwise. I can also assure everyone isn't running Trapinch from usage we have received thus far.; It has not been used enough to even become OU. There are simply other ways to approach Chansey. I don't agree that Trapinch usage is reason to ban Chansey at this moment in time. Usage coming soon by the way, woohoo.

[Robofiend]

Yeah and that's Chansey. Look at this from my point of view: if people are reaching for Trapinch to deal with Chansey, something is obviously very wrong

 

I understand what you're saying, but let me give you a more convincing example.

 

Recently Shadow Tag was banned in ORAS, mostly because of Gothitelle. Goth was great for trapping Clefable, Heatran, Ferrothorn, and a ton of other walls, allowing stall (and even offense) teams a guaranteed way to break down cores. Clefable/Heatran wasn't the problem, despite being really useful and common, there are tons of ways to beat these pokemon outside of Goth (the same idea is true for Chansey). Gothitelle was deemed the problem because it was flat out uncompetitive.

 

I think you'd have trouble convincing the rest of TC that Chansey should be banned instead of Trapinch - there are loads of things that abuse it as is and it's not necessary to have Trapinch to beat it, otherwise we would have already banned Chansey for having overly specific counters.

[BlackJovi]

I understand what you're saying, but let me give you a more convincing example.

 

Recently Shadow Tag was banned in ORAS, mostly because of Gothitelle. Goth was great for trapping Clefable, Heatran, Ferrothorn, and a ton of other walls, allowing stall (and even offense) teams a guaranteed way to break down cores. Clefable/Heatran wasn't the problem, despite being really useful and common, there are tons of ways to beat these pokemon outside of Goth (the same idea is true for Chansey). Gothitelle was deemed the problem because it was flat out uncompetitive.

 

I think you'd have trouble convincing the rest of TC that Chansey should be banned instead of Trapinch - there are loads of things that abuse it as is and it's not necessary to have Trapinch to beat it, otherwise we would have already banned Chansey for having overly specific counters.

Can you give me an idea of how to easily beat Chansey?

[DrCraig]

Can you give me an idea of how to easily beat Chansey?

Solution for chansey: Run trapinch more.

[RysPicz]

I see it is of not point to discuss any further about chansey since you won't do anything about it anyway.

[Robofiend]

Can you give me an idea of how to easily beat Chansey?

 

Ursaring does a good job, as does Heracross. Metagross is a common way to stop Toxic Stall, Gardevoir can Mean Look trap it, Rhydon is bulky enough to swap in safely and abuse Chansey/Weezing core and even Gyarados can come in and start DD boosting (or run CB) to blast it. Flygon can perform a similar job.

[BlackJovi]

I see it is of not point to discuss any further about chansey since you won't do anything about it anyway.

I don't even OU anyway, because too many walls/stallers/boring stuff. I just like running trapinch once in a while and ohkoing chansey so I can watch trash go where it belongs. Have fun bois

Edited January 22, 2016 by BlackJovi

[KaynineXL]

There are plenty of ways to beat Chansey, I mean, they don't exactly beat Chansey per say, but they use Chansey as a stepping stone to beat the offensive walls(getting free SD/free switch for cber if Chansey doesn't want to risk prot).

 

Trapinch is used because Chansey is just so easily trapped by it, it's just another reason why Chansey is far from hard to beat.

Edited January 22, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Robofiend]

For the record, I'm skeptical that Trapinch will really become a problem since Chansey isn't *that* useful a lot of the time outside of checking Toxic stall.

[DrCraig]

For the record, I'm skeptical that Trapinch will really become a problem since Chansey isn't *that* useful a lot of the time outside of checking Toxic stall.

Judging by how people don't actually use it regularly, I doubt it will become a problem also. We just like to pretend it's everywhere for some reason.

[LuisPocho]

There are plenty of ways to beat Chansey, I mean, they don't exactly beat Chansey per say, but they use Chansey as a stepping stone to beat the offensive walls(getting free SD/free switch for cber if Chansey doesn't want to risk prot).

And whats the difference between chansey, pory and umbreon in that situation? players still needs special walls to stop special sweepers, and those walls gonna be abused with the free sd/free bander attack... but you know, those free hits are not enought to break everywall in every situation... that gap chansey creates can be solved (and you dont even need much skill to come up with the right solution)

the problem here is, sword dance users and choice banders can abuse special walls to get an extra turn to get the posibility to kill a wall (if the conditions are good)... but special sweepers cant abuse physical walls because of chansey... that extra turn can be enought to kill umbreon, pory or venusaur, but never enought to be able to kill chansey with your special sweeper (at least chansey is at 30% hp)

[OrangeManiac]

Yeah and that's Chansey. Look at this from my point of view: if people are reaching for Trapinch to deal with Chansey, something is obviously very wrong

You're mispresenting the situation really badly here. People don't run Trapinch because it's the only way to deal with Chansey, they do because it is an idiot proof way to deal with Chansey. You could even run 5 spec sweepers + Trapinch team now and you don't need to do else than switch Trapinch in, kill Chansey and proceed to possibly sweep.

[SpartacusGD]

Ursaring does a good job, as does Heracross. Metagross is a common way to stop Toxic Stall, Gardevoir can Mean Look trap it, Rhydon is bulky enough to swap in safely and abuse Chansey/Weezing core and even Gyarados can come in and start DD boosting (or run CB) to blast it. Flygon can perform a similar job.

I can add blaziken, sub seed users, breloom, machamp, basically anything that hits hard. Not enough? Theres also swampert even metal sound magneton, calm mind zam, tauros, dd kingdra there are so many. Im surprised an offensive player like 4f is having trouble with chan, you should be happy its a free switch for one of your sweapers

[KaynineXL]

And whats the difference between chansey, pory and umbreon in that situation? players still needs special walls to stop special sweepers, and those walls gonna be abused with the free sd/free bander attack... but you know, those free hits are not enought to break everywall in every situation... that gap chansey creates can be solved (and you dont even need much skill to come up with the right solution)

the problem here is, sword dance users and choice banders can abuse special walls to get an extra turn to get the posibility to kill a wall (if the conditions are good)... but special sweepers cant abuse physical walls because of chansey... that extra turn can be enought to kill umbreon, pory or venusaur, but never enought to be able to kill chansey with your special sweeper (at least chansey is at 30% hp)

So you're saying, my reason for Chansey not being hard to beat is the same with the all the other special attackers?

 

I don't find Umbreon scary to come into to be honest, but it does have a wider movepool, I'v seen curse sets, I'v even seen confuse ray one's which was quite annoying every time I sent in something physically offensive.

Porygon is definitely harder than Chansey to come into, a lot of what it can use deals a chunk of damage you can't keep coming in on, not only that pretty much all of the offensive moves(tbolt, ice beam, tri attack) can status you.

 

It's not the special walls fault they wall sp attackers so hard, we don't have choice specs, physical attackers are just 1 step ahead right now, so why not abuse that.

Edited January 22, 2016 by KaynineXL

[codylramey]

taunt umbreon can take chansey 1v1 too, didnt really think about that until just now.

[BurntZebra]

taunt umbreon can take chansey 1v1 too, didnt really think about that until just now.

Has 4mss pretty bad with taunt. It has to have heal bell to not get screwed by Chansey toxic on the switch

[Robofiend]

Has 4mss pretty bad with taunt. It has to have heal bell to not get screwed by Chansey toxic on the switch

 

Taunt Skarm OP

[bigbangattack]

I just watched most of the last ou tourney and I noticed this....when two players were locked in a stall where they needed to predict a switch to hit a poke and gain advantage chansey completely took the chess aspect out of it and became a go to safe switch for the most part...its straight uncompetative no argument against that seems valid to me....no physical wall just completely counters every physical sweeper in the metagame and yes I think adding choice specs would be an easier fix than banning chansey or even snorlax or blissey for that matter but I will say that chansey and the others are more broken seeing as how strong physical walls are often hit harder with non choice banded pokes than I can see chansey being hit with our current spc atkers.....not to mention watching the matches I found myself being bored when it was clear one person was disabled completely when chansey was on the other team stuffing 3 of their pokemon while having the remainder checked with other pokes...and this is 2-3 faints into the match.. Meaning the game was over quicker than it should have been with no chance of comeback....if nothing else I'd have to say a chansey meta is just boring and relies on clipping your opponent and stalling them into submission

Sorry for the double post but typing is the biggest problem with chansey....fire punch can hit skarm hard and megahorn/tpunch hit slowbro....we need focus blast for chansey to be competitive instead of broken....since this isn't a suggestion box to bring in choice specs kr focus blast I can only conclude to ban chansey

Edited January 23, 2016 by Kudasai

[LuisPocho]

lets imagine a PokeMMO with no choice band, no sword dance, no dragon dance, no guts, no 600 stats physical pokes... would you say weezing shouldnt be banned in that situation? would you said something like "weezing is not op because you can kill it with special sweepers!"?

special pokes aren´t as good as physical ones in this gen... the game is centralizing around physical play, but with chansey banned, I think we will see more special attackers around

[SpartacusGD]

lets imagine a PokeMMO with no choice band, no sword dance, no dragon dance, no guts, no 600 stats physical pokes... would you say weezing shouldnt be banned in that situation? would you said something like "weezing is not op because you can kill it with special sweepers!"?

special pokes aren´t as good as physical ones in this gen... the game is centralizing around physical play, but with chansey banned, I think we will see more special attackers around

You wanna play a game where everyone needs aero? Or the 1st one to calm mind his ho fire zam sweaps the game? Cause thats what losing chansey means. Besides aero and tauros there are no really viable physical attacker that can sweap like zam and jolt. (Talking about speed here) while zam and jolt can setup and rock the world with little support, aero and tauros will need their choice band or they will be shit sweapers.

Im pertaining to chansey banned meta btw

I personally dont always run chansey cause smart offensive players sweap me whenever i switch my chansey out, try grabbing some comps bra like sd ursa, hera, blaziken and you will love seeing your oponent running chansey. Edited January 25, 2016 by SpartacusGD

[BlackJovi]

Yeah Ive been running an offensive team in verm just for the lols, The people I fight with don't even have a chance to bring Chansey out, I always wonder what their last poke is, and most of the time its always Chansey. And whenever they do bring out the chansey early, BOOM, Trapinched af. 

 

Physical sweepers > Special sweepers right now

Edited January 25, 2016 by BlackJovi

[OldKeith]

Physical sweepers > Special sweepers right now

 

A good enough reason for Chansey to stay.

[OrangeManiac]

Special sweepers are better in general due to generally higher power moves, wider movepools, etc. but the reason they're not used as much as some physical threats is that they can be walled out cold while physical sweepers have at least some way of dealing with physical walls. What comes to sweeping itself, special offense is muuuuuuch better. I'm waiting to see if I'm right about this and whether 1 Trapinch + bunch of specsweepers will become a thing. That doesn't make the metagame necessarily good but there isn't much room to blame Chansey for it.

[BlackJovi]

Special sweepers are better in general due to generally higher power moves, wider movepools, etc. but the reason they're not used as much as some physical threats is that they can be walled out cold while physical sweepers have at least some way of dealing with physical walls. What comes to sweeping itself, special offense is muuuuuuch better. I'm waiting to see if I'm right about this and whether 1 Trapinch + bunch of specsweepers will become a thing. That doesn't make the metagame necessarily good but there isn't much room to blame Chansey for it.

I was about to try this whenever I got money to breed, guess you beat me to it

[BurntZebra]

Special sweepers are better in general due to generally higher power moves, wider movepools, etc. but the reason they're not used as much as some physical threats is that they can be walled out cold while physical sweepers have at least some way of dealing with physical walls. What comes to sweeping itself, special offense is muuuuuuch better. I'm waiting to see if I'm right about this and whether 1 Trapinch + bunch of specsweepers will become a thing. That doesn't make the metagame necessarily good but there isn't much room to blame Chansey for it.

That is a bit of a stretch. If you think special sweepers are good here, you must think they are descendants of god in gen 6 where they psyshock/life orb/nasty plot/choice specs/scarf/focus blast. That being said, special attackers do have the advantage of being faster than the average physical attackers. Alakazam and espeon wouldn't be that great, but they happen to outspeed every physical attacker besides aero. I guess choice scarf is the double edged sword of offensive pokemon. I don't really think the meta will be trapinch+3-4 special sweepers, just because special sweepers can get blocked pretty easily by a secondary special wall or aerodactyl/metagross