LuisPocho Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Erayne said: Lmao tell me how a trick specs starmie/alakazam is bad. Even if you know they have trick, you cant just switch anything against them since if they don't trick they really hurt a lot. Same for growth jolteon/venusaur: they're totally good options even without chansey. Don't bring up that rubbish zam, there are so many better options that i've already listed, and you guys are just ignoring only because you don't like chansey. If you really want to ban it find another reason like the cancer play it promotes, because it's definitely not uber worthy. banded chansey > leftovers zam/starmie.... starmie maybe can support, with 2 attacks and no recover (very walleable)... zam wont be cm for sure, and with leftovers wont kill nothing 1 hit... and chansey can still wall those two or support its team trick metagros: thats something, if it tricks slowbro or milotic, metagross itself gonna break it eventually... thats way different well the same goes for the other, they may work in 1 or 2 scenarios, if the opponent is not very good or something like that... You say "hey but they ARE viable", I could believe you if I ever see those plays working as intended in a semifinal or final or even round 3, but I cant remember the last time I saw them outside normal matchs and thats important imo Link to comment
Laz Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 these plebs can't even handle chansey, smd while I smh QPrime and Maelstrom 2 Link to comment
LuisPocho Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: these plebs can't even handle chansey, smd while I smh its easy to handle, just dont bring special attackers or ever use attacks or status with your walls Link to comment
Laz Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, LuisPocho said: its easy to handle, just dont bring special attackers or ever use attacks or status with your walls yes but just a little Link to comment
pachima Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Ban chansey, bring blissey, ez. Link to comment
epicdavenport Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 hours ago, pachima said: Ban chansey, bring blissey, ez. You just solved everything Link to comment
suigin Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 We might be getting Eviolite boys, Blissey may become less aids than Chansey after all. Link to comment
Murcielago Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I'm surprised chansey is seriously being considered to be banned. Erayne and kevola 2 Link to comment
Elliasal Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 On 2/12/2017 at 3:15 PM, Murcielago said: I'm surprised chansey is seriously being considered to be banned. Well when usage is over 50%, there must be a problem with it being in the OU meta game, most uber pokemon haven't even got that much usage when they were in OU. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Murcielago said: I'm surprised chansey is seriously being considered to be banned. You were surprised the same way in that Snorlax thread. suigin and epicdavenport 2 Link to comment
LuisPocho Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 On 12/2/2017 at 5:15 PM, Murcielago said: I'm surprised chansey is seriously being considered to be banned. to be fair, how many times did you surprised us with your arguments? Link to comment
Murcielago Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 awww the snorlax thread.... good times, good times. I dunno, its pretty hard for me to participate in these threads.... "chansey op, sweeps my team even when i trick it with specs band" "snorlax makes jolteon non-viable" "banning snorlax will result in more diversity" ^how does one even respond to such statements without referencing the players lack of experiance in the metagame? Personally i think the TC made the right call banning lax, but it should be made clear that it was a combination of "almost uber characteristics" and also being centralizing... Snorlax was a low risk high reward pokemon, chansey is a low risk high reward pokemon... when ever there is a pokemon who has a good risk/reward portfolio its going to be the most used, doesn't mean it should be banned... Also, just like lax we are reaching a point where running chansey is almost a liability.... If we can just let the meta evolve naturally for a bit we will all be better off for it... the problem here isn't chansey, or snorlax getting banned, its that tiering policies need to be followed properly and knee jerk reactions need to be kept to a minimum. The only semi-valid arguments I see around banning chansey involve usage statistics. And... "Just because a bunch of noobs use something doesn't mean it should be banned" ^Is a perfectly valid counterpoint to any argument revolving around usage statics. If chansey was centralzing AND limiting... it would be a different story, but chansey is one of the most exploitable pokemon in the game. Any guts user = free switch and set-up Belly drum+lum berry = free set up 204HP+sub= free set up Wish/growth jolt = free set up Trick users = wreck chansey .... With chansey around... hyper offense = viable.... wall+Stall = viable......balanced teams = viable There is tons more ways to exploit chansey... if your having problems with chansey its that you dont understand the meta... and need to get better at this game. Join a good team with experiance players... Brew is recruiting but there are plenty of other good teams out there to join too... Literally no excuse to be bad at the game and complaining about this stuff IMO. kevola, BigPapi, xilias and 1 other 4 Link to comment
suigin Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Murcielago said: Any guts user = free switch and set-up Thunder Wave on the switch makes them incredibly easy to revenge kill and a switch into the physical wall can punish their set up and damage them Quote Belly drum+lum berry = free set up What if it uses Seismic Toss on the switch instead of a status move? Your drummer is fucked, deals non-threatening damage unless it's Azumarill meaning Chansey can Toss again to either KO or deny your drum and with that a strong win condition is gone like the wind. Quote 204HP+sub= free set up Useless if Toxic'd on the switch in and the only one pokemon with 204HP subs Chansey would stay on instead of switching into a different wall is Vaporeon. Quote Wish/growth jolt = free set up Toxic, needs three growths and a life orb to 2HKO while Chansey can 3HKO with Seismic Toss, I did the whole analysis on why Jolteon is not a good answer to Chansey earlier. Quote Trick users = wreck chansey Still can function as a specially defensive pivot and takes so little damage from special attacks it doesn't matter. Only really makes it susceptible to special set up sweepers. Link to comment
Murcielago Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 So to summarize your position... If a superior player to yourself has the perfect chansey to counter your team they will beat you? So therefore chansey should be banned? I believe that is what I just read, but correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment
suigin Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) If a superior player to yourself has the perfect Tyranitar to counter your team they will beat you? So therefore Tyranitar should be banned? "I literally never had any problem with Tyranitar haha just fun Flygon and Heracross in case it has either ice punch or fire punch" I'm simply dispelling the meme that Chansey is easy set up bait and that literally anything can switch into any Chansey and just set up for free. I'm using the same arguments people use for literally every suspect test I've ever seen "Oh what if Aegislash uses Head Smash on Mandibuzz" "What if Snorlax uses Surf on Rhydon" "What if Gengar is Sub Disable and then poisons Umbreon". They are kinda stretchy arguments and I roll my eyes when I see them but they are realistic scenarios and if these cases are taken into account then so should Chansey's. You have this shitty condescending way of arguing and pretending anyone who wants or supports the banning of some things is "bad" and cannot handle them. Of course I can fuck Chansey sideways and I have enough wallbreakers to deal with Chansey and her most common defensive partners, as well as clerics to fix up any status that gets inflicted on said wallbreakers, the same way I could nail and Hoopa-Unbound in gen6 with Mandibuzz or the same way I use Tapu Lele as set up bait with Volcarona, or the same way I could sleep on any Aegislash in gen 7 with my Toxapex. However being able to handle them doesn't mean they aren't busted. Like I said, I don't believe Chansey should be banned, the same way I don't believe Blissey should be banned, however having one of them banned while the other one remains free is genuinely stupid since the difference in bulk is marginal. But I was already told to drop this particular argument so I'll shut up. Edited February 16, 2017 by suigin Murcielago 1 Link to comment
Murcielago Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Ok cool, yeah better wording for my last post should have been "your opponent has the perfect chansey to counter your team and out plays you" Regardless, thanks for the clarification. suigin 1 Link to comment
LuisPocho Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 what 4th gen moves, items or mechanism could make blissey/chansey less op in OU? Link to comment
epicdavenport Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, LuisPocho said: what 4th gen moves, items or mechanism could make blissey/chansey less op in OU? Not really relevant to discussing its current uber/ non-uber capabilities. Link to comment
suigin Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, LuisPocho said: what 4th gen moves, items or mechanism could make blissey/chansey less op in OU? I've doing a small guide in order to ease people into a newer gen if it gets implemented and i've been gone over a lot of new mons and updated mons. Chansey won't be any less OP but it is very likely it will see a lot less usage with stuff like No Guard Machamp, Infernape, Roserade(Who can fulfill a similar role as Growth Venusaur but with Natural Cure), Lucario, Mismagius, Porygon Z, Electivire, Gallade, Staraptor, Gliscor, Poison Heal Breloom, and Mamoswine. It will still be pretty useful due to gaining Stealth Rock and being the only full stop to Yanmega but when it comes to its role as a blanket check to special attackers it remains unmatched (It will get some nice competition from Mantine though, specially if defog gets updated to gen6 mechanics). Alakazam also gains a way to damage it without needing 3 CMs. +1 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Chansey: 192-226 (58.8 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Gen5 would add Conkeldurr, Poison Heal Gliscor, Excadrill as full safe switches, Reuniclus, Chandelure and Serperior as pokemon that can beat it sometimes, Psyshock, but here Chansey gets access to Eviolite so everything goes straight to hell and it becomes almost as physically bulky as Swampert. Edited February 17, 2017 by suigin LuisPocho 1 Link to comment
Erayne Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just bring back blissry and dugtrio :) dugtrio is not even banned in DPP where you can easily trap pokemon using uturn Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, LuisPocho said: what 4th gen moves, items or mechanism could make blissey/chansey less op in OU? Close Combat, 120 base power outrage (kek), bringing back pokes like Dug, TTar, Mence, Dragonite. It all goes for one huge chain of events I think, I might be wrong as it's only my speculation though but I would see it most likely being like this: Legendaries implemented (FUCKING WHEN) -> Unban of most of ubers, prob only bar wabba/ dug -> maybe gen4 moves? maybe gen4 as a whole? I dunno. This game screams to have legendaries implemented. For 2.5 year I hear only that "legendary dungeons are in plans/ progress" so kinda kek. @Murcielago I'm way too sick and tired with my fever to go through, analyze and rip your post apart but you are missing the most important point- usage for a poke above 35% is already alarming, unless it's like in 2% tolerance and it's only one poke (see: Scizor in UU). Chansey has fucking 50% usage and I'm more than sure that it will be growing over the time. E: My bad, Chansey's usage is not 50%. It's 53- just checked latest usage stats Edited February 17, 2017 by RysPicz LuisPocho and Hotarubi 2 Link to comment
Murcielago Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 @RysPicz - hey man, being sick sucks. Get your rest and get well soon. I've already addressed the usage statics argument and put it to rest as far as Im concerned. "Just because a bunch of noobs use something doesn't mean it should get banned" ^Completely shuts down any usage argument. Now, if you think chansey is some how limiting the meta... or have a reason it should be banned aside from raw mathematical data, I would be willing to listen to it. RysPicz 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Murcielago said: @RysPicz - hey man, being sick sucks. Get your rest and get well soon. I've already addressed the usage statics argument and put it to rest as far as Im concerned. "Just because a bunch of noobs use something doesn't mean it should get banned" ^Completely shuts down any usage argument. Now, if you think chansey is some how limiting the meta... or have a reason it should be banned aside from raw mathematical data, I would be willing to listen to it. How do you know it's noobs who are driving up the usage? Do you have access to special usage stats that the rest of us dont? Edited February 17, 2017 by Gunthug RysPicz and LuisPocho 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) We have been witnesses of an incredibly exciting battle in PSL! Chansey vs Chansey was a very exhausting duel, exchanging seismic tosses and healing themselves for over 30 minutes. The battle ended thanks to timer, which was quite predictable. Edited February 17, 2017 by RysPicz Bilburt, KoolT93, LuisPocho and 2 others 5 Link to comment
LuisPocho Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 hours ago, RysPicz said: We have been witnesses of an incredibly exciting battle in PSL! Chansey vs Chansey was a very exhausting duel, exchanging seismic tosses and healing themselves for over 30 minutes. The battle ended thanks to timer, which was quite predictable. Obviusly they were just 2 bad players that didnt bring one of the many pokes that can exploit chansey... oh wait they did! how is it posible?! A 120 turns battle when there is a hera that can EASILY exploit chansey? ... I just dont get it, never happened before RysPicz 1 Link to comment
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