drifloo

hello! i'd like to make a suggestion about changing volcarona's moveset and why i do think it's necessary for the health of the tier. i felt motivated to post this here since i was talking with some friends on discord about the last tier shifts and we pretty much agreed that volc is currently a big issue in the tier
 
why volcarona is a problem
 
since its inception volcarona has been one of the most fearsome pokemon to play against in bw, because even with its monstruous stats it has access to quiver dance, a move incredibly safe to click because unlike dragon dance it gives volcarona defensive capabilities and not only offensive ones. this is incredibly huge for volcarona as it lets it set up in front of pokemon that could beat volcarona otherwise, like special bulky waters or chandelure; in conjunction with roost. not only that, but with its coverage volcarona can effectively beat any pokemon it wants given that it has the proper set, which is exacerbated by the presence of gems in the tier. defensive water types can lose if it has giga drain, defensive poison or fighting types can lose if it has psychic, defensive dragon types can lose if it has hp ice, etc. even blanket defensive walls like chansey can become set up fodder with safeguard/qd/roost/fire move or rest/qd/2 attacks, altho these are less common sets and usually volc gets around chansey with the help of pursuit users + hazards. in fact, volcarona alone was one of the main reasons why gems got banned in bw smogon. however here the situation is worse than in smogon bw ou.
 
what the absence of heatran is doing to the metagame
 
without heatran in the game volcarona has lost its most reliable answer. heatran provided a lot of team flexibility, fitting both in offense and more defensive oriented teams, providing a lot of utility while also having the ability to dish out offense and check important threats in the game, the most notable one being volcarona. the absence of heatran makes it so that if you want a reliable volcarona answer now you either have to play rain, or run multiple answers for it, which feels really overwhelming both when building and playing considering the extremely offensive teams volcarona fits in. this leads to an extremely offensive-oriented metagame where your best bet is to out-offense your opponent before their offense takes off
 
different moveset changes suggestions that would help volcarona feel better
 
option 1: remove quiver dance from its moveset
 
obviously, this would be the most severe change. without moves that lets it boost its speed volcarona would be easily revenge killed by things like garchomp and starmie, and without the power boost it wouldnt be able to muscle through defensive answers so easily anymore. ttar would also be a much more reliable answer
 
option 2: remove recovery moves like roost and rest from its moveset
 
this i think would be the most balanced change. removing its ability to capitalize on the defensive boosts and make it a lot more vulnerable to chip damage would be a reasonable way to let volcarona keep its identity while making its presence a lot more managable for both offensive and defensive teams.
 
option 3: remove hidden power from its moveset
 
altho i do think that this wouldn't help fix some of the issues volc has, it would certainly make it a lot easier to play around volcarona. things like dragonite, garchomp and gyarados would become much safer answers against it. the metagame would probably stay more or less the same with this change but facing volcarona would be much more managable.
 
i hope i was able to express as good as possible the problems with this pokemon in the tier, if TC disagrees or has any other suggestion, then i'd love to know

My suggestion is, if possible, to add timers/indicators that indicate how many turns there are of field effects (such as weather, trick room, tailwind) and screens (Light Screen/Reflect) in PvP battles.
 
It would be a nice QoL feature that would help players in PvP games - similar to what exists in Pokemon Showdown!
 
(Apologies if this has previously been requested and I didn't find the suggestion)
 
Thank you!!
 
 

Simple QOL feature that should've been implemented years ago

It's a feature on Showdown and for good reason. We're tracking movesets, PP, spreads/natures, checking damage rolls, positioning and win cons. It's information that should be readily available, Showdown even goes as far as to give the player movesets/PP once revealed.


As Orange mentionned, this has been a feature in the main series as well for some time
If my memory serves, main series assumes no relevant held item. For example, it will show X/5 until the held item is revealed either by frisk, trick etc. or the screen/weather in question lasts longer than 5 turns at which point it switches to an X/8 display)


You've got space right here, look at all this space, wow


Found 1 similar suggestion from 2019 in about 20s, I'm sure there are many more as it's been requested for years, do you read these?

Pls respond, 

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: Pottina
Tiers: Untiered, Monotype, Randoms
Discord: eipott

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: Razachu
Tiers: VGC, Randoms
Discord: razachu 

IGN: Dindra
Tiers: Catch and battle, Untiered, Monotype and Randoms
Discord:Dindra

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: Sargeste
Tiers: Randoms, UT, Monotype
Discord: sargeste

IGN : TehKharma 
tiers : VGC/monotype/untiered 
discord : fuck you (~~> Kharma)

Removed signup

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

IGN: drifloo
Tier (s): all
Discord: carlosrhv

hello! i'd like to make a suggestion about changing volcarona's moveset and why i do think it's necessary for the health of the tier. i felt motivated to post this here since i was talking with some friends on discord about the last tier shifts and we pretty much agreed that volc is currently a big issue in the tier
 
why volcarona is a problem
 
since its inception volcarona has been one of the most fearsome pokemon to play against in bw, because even with its monstruous stats it has access to quiver dance, a move incredibly safe to click because unlike dragon dance it gives volcarona defensive capabilities and not only offensive ones. this is incredibly huge for volcarona as it lets it set up in front of pokemon that could beat volcarona otherwise, like special bulky waters or chandelure; in conjunction with roost. not only that, but with its coverage volcarona can effectively beat any pokemon it wants given that it has the proper set, which is exacerbated by the presence of gems in the tier. defensive water types can lose if it has giga drain, defensive poison or fighting types can lose if it has psychic, defensive dragon types can lose if it has hp ice, etc. even blanket defensive walls like chansey can become set up fodder with safeguard/qd/roost/fire move or rest/qd/2 attacks, altho these are less common sets and usually volc gets around chansey with the help of pursuit users + hazards. in fact, volcarona alone was one of the main reasons why gems got banned in bw smogon. however here the situation is worse than in smogon bw ou.
 
what the absence of heatran is doing to the metagame
 
without heatran in the game volcarona has lost its most reliable answer. heatran provided a lot of team flexibility, fitting both in offense and more defensive oriented teams, providing a lot of utility while also having the ability to dish out offense and check important threats in the game, the most notable one being volcarona. the absence of heatran makes it so that if you want a reliable volcarona answer now you either have to play rain, or run multiple answers for it, which feels really overwhelming both when building and playing considering the extremely offensive teams volcarona fits in. this leads to an extremely offensive-oriented metagame where your best bet is to out-offense your opponent before their offense takes off
 
different moveset changes suggestions that would help volcarona feel better
 
option 1: remove quiver dance from its moveset
 
obviously, this would be the most severe change. without moves that lets it boost its speed volcarona would be easily revenge killed by things like garchomp and starmie, and without the power boost it wouldnt be able to muscle through defensive answers so easily anymore. ttar would also be a much more reliable answer
 
option 2: remove recovery moves like roost and rest from its moveset
 
this i think would be the most balanced change. removing its ability to capitalize on the defensive boosts and make it a lot more vulnerable to chip damage would be a reasonable way to let volcarona keep its identity while making its presence a lot more managable for both offensive and defensive teams.
 
option 3: remove hidden power from its moveset
 
altho i do think that this wouldn't help fix some of the issues volc has, it would certainly make it a lot easier to play around volcarona. things like dragonite, garchomp and gyarados would become much safer answers against it. the metagame would probably stay more or less the same with this change but facing volcarona would be much more managable.
 
i hope i was able to express as good as possible the problems with this pokemon in the tier, if TC disagrees or has any other suggestion, then i'd love to know

hello! i'd like to make a suggestion about changing volcarona's moveset and why i do think it's necessary for the health of the tier. i felt motivated to post this here since i was talking with some friends on discord about the last tier shifts and we pretty much agreed that volc is currently a big issue in the tier
 
why volcarona is a problem
 
since its inception volcarona has been one of the most fearsome pokemon to play against in bw, because even with its monstruous stats it has access to quiver dance, a move incredibly safe to click because unlike dragon dance it gives volcarona defensive capabilities and not only offensive ones. this is incredibly huge for volcarona as it lets it set up in front of pokemon that could beat volcarona otherwise, like special bulky waters or chandelure; in conjunction with roost. not only that, but with its coverage volcarona can effectively beat any pokemon it wants given that it has the proper set, which is exacerbated by the presence of gems in the tier. defensive water types can lose if it has giga drain, defensive poison or fighting types can lose if it has psychic, defensive dragon types can lose if it has hp ice, etc. even blanket defensive walls like chansey can become set up fodder with safeguard/qd/roost/fire move or rest/qd/2 attacks, altho these are less common sets and usually volc gets around chansey with the help of pursuit users + hazards. in fact, volcarona alone was one of the main reasons why gems got banned in bw smogon. however here the situation is worse than in smogon bw ou.
 
what the absence of heatran is doing to the metagame
 
without heatran in the game volcarona has lost its most reliable answer. heatran provided a lot of team flexibility, fitting both in offense and more defensive oriented teams, providing a lot of utility while also having the ability to dish out offense and check important threats in the game, the most notable one being volcarona. the absence of heatran makes it so that if you want a reliable volcarona answer now you either have to play rain, or run multiple answers for it, which feels really overwhelming both when building and playing considering the extremely offensive teams volcarona fits in. this leads to an extremely offensive-oriented metagame where your best bet is to out-offense your opponent before their offense takes off
 
different moveset changes suggestions that would help volcarona feel better
 
option 1: remove quiver dance from its moveset
 
obviously, this would be the most severe change. without moves that lets it boost its speed volcarona would be easily revenge killed by things like garchomp and starmie, and without the power boost it wouldnt be able to muscle through defensive answers so easily anymore. ttar would also be a much more reliable answer
 
option 2: remove recovery moves like roost and rest from its moveset
 
this i think would be the most balanced change. removing its ability to capitalize on the defensive boosts and make it a lot more vulnerable to chip damage would be a reasonable way to let volcarona keep its identity while making its presence a lot more managable for both offensive and defensive teams.
 
option 3: remove hidden power from its moveset
 
altho i do think that this wouldn't help fix some of the issues volc has, it would certainly make it a lot easier to play around volcarona. things like dragonite, garchomp and gyarados would become much safer answers against it. the metagame would probably stay more or less the same with this change but facing volcarona would be much more managable.
 
i hope i was able to express as good as possible the problems with this pokemon in the tier, if TC disagrees or has any other suggestion, then i'd love to know

As much as I do not agree with your claim about Volcarona being too strong, that much I absolutely appreciate the form you chose to present your argument. I really wish more people would be able to do it in such way (caio take notes).
 
Volcarona surely is a big threat for the tier, reflected in its 12% usage, which is a lot for a tier dominated by Garchomp. However, there are too many things that hinder its potential: first and foremost, Stealth Rock. Crippling Volcarona at the very entrance down to 50% hugely decreases it's longevity and thus, makes Volcarona rely on partners to remove rocks. As much as I love Heatran and I believe it's addition to our metagame would hugely benefit us in a healthy way, the lack of if does not make Volcarona an offensive Uber. Offensive Uber is a Pokémon that can sweep the tier with little to no effort with little or no support and Volcarona requires support to:
A) Remove rocks
B) Weaken it's checks which are very common (such as Dragonite)
C) Allow setup in a hostile environment.
 
Nowdays, we got plenty of tools to handle Volcarona in OU, especially with addition of AV (well, Assault Gear). Mienshao, Dragonite, blobs, Gyara, even Gliscor. Another thing worth considering is that Volc fares really poorly against one of the most common archetypes in OU- rain.
 
If we would have HDB (and I really hope we will not get them anytime soon), maybe then we could discuss Volcarona. Right now, it's a big threat and probably A-rank viability mon, but it's nowhere near offensive Uber. It cannot break stall and cannot sweep all by itself without team support.

hello! i'd like to make a suggestion about changing volcarona's moveset and why i do think it's necessary for the health of the tier. i felt motivated to post this here since i was talking with some friends on discord about the last tier shifts and we pretty much agreed that volc is currently a big issue in the tier
 
why volcarona is a problem
 
since its inception volcarona has been one of the most fearsome pokemon to play against in bw, because even with its monstruous stats it has access to quiver dance, a move incredibly safe to click because unlike dragon dance it gives volcarona defensive capabilities and not only offensive ones. this is incredibly huge for volcarona as it lets it set up in front of pokemon that could beat volcarona otherwise, like special bulky waters or chandelure; in conjunction with roost. not only that, but with its coverage volcarona can effectively beat any pokemon it wants given that it has the proper set, which is exacerbated by the presence of gems in the tier. defensive water types can lose if it has giga drain, defensive poison or fighting types can lose if it has psychic, defensive dragon types can lose if it has hp ice, etc. even blanket defensive walls like chansey can become set up fodder with safeguard/qd/roost/fire move or rest/qd/2 attacks, altho these are less common sets and usually volc gets around chansey with the help of pursuit users + hazards. in fact, volcarona alone was one of the main reasons why gems got banned in bw smogon. however here the situation is worse than in smogon bw ou.
 
what the absence of heatran is doing to the metagame
 
without heatran in the game volcarona has lost its most reliable answer. heatran provided a lot of team flexibility, fitting both in offense and more defensive oriented teams, providing a lot of utility while also having the ability to dish out offense and check important threats in the game, the most notable one being volcarona. the absence of heatran makes it so that if you want a reliable volcarona answer now you either have to play rain, or run multiple answers for it, which feels really overwhelming both when building and playing considering the extremely offensive teams volcarona fits in. this leads to an extremely offensive-oriented metagame where your best bet is to out-offense your opponent before their offense takes off
 
different moveset changes suggestions that would help volcarona feel better
 
option 1: remove quiver dance from its moveset
 
obviously, this would be the most severe change. without moves that lets it boost its speed volcarona would be easily revenge killed by things like garchomp and starmie, and without the power boost it wouldnt be able to muscle through defensive answers so easily anymore. ttar would also be a much more reliable answer
 
option 2: remove recovery moves like roost and rest from its moveset
 
this i think would be the most balanced change. removing its ability to capitalize on the defensive boosts and make it a lot more vulnerable to chip damage would be a reasonable way to let volcarona keep its identity while making its presence a lot more managable for both offensive and defensive teams.
 
option 3: remove hidden power from its moveset
 
altho i do think that this wouldn't help fix some of the issues volc has, it would certainly make it a lot easier to play around volcarona. things like dragonite, garchomp and gyarados would become much safer answers against it. the metagame would probably stay more or less the same with this change but facing volcarona would be much more managable.
 
i hope i was able to express as good as possible the problems with this pokemon in the tier, if TC disagrees or has any other suggestion, then i'd love to know