The tiering system needs to be updated to fit the current state of the game

[CaptnBaklava]

1 hour ago, Bertolfoso said:

I remember having to wait 30mins-1h and facing the same person multiple times in  a row in UU even before randoms, can't speak for NU and Doubles though.

It's timezone depending, in the late evening and early morning time I used to have no problems. But during afternoon and early evening it's impossible in my zone. 

[HatziLain]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:26 PM, Bertolfoso said:

They were dead before too

Before random I watched streams of 1-2 hours testing teams for NU and found a game quickly. Now it's impossible because it takes more than 20 minutes to find a match

[gbwead]

@Munya

Please consider changing the 3 months tiering movements cycle for something like this in 2023:

 

January

• OU/UU
  • Move Up Cutoff point: 5%
  • Move Down Cutoff point: 3.5%
• UU/NU
  • Move Up Cutoff point: 6.5%
  • Move Down Cutoff point: 2.0%

February

• OU/UU
  • Move Up Cutoff point: 5%
  • Move Down Cutoff point: 3.5%
• UU/NU
  • Move Up Cutoff point: 6.5%
  • Move Down Cutoff point: 2.0%

March

• OU/UU
  • Move Up Cutoff point: 6.5%
  • Move Down Cutoff point: 2.0%
• UU/NU
  • Move Up Cutoff point: 5%
  • Move Down Cutoff point: 3.5%

 

We have seen for years the yoyoing and delays caused by our tiering movements. I'm imploring you to please not look the other way and change what could easily be fixed. The tiering movements parameters need to be set to reflect the current state of each metagame and I truly believe that what I am suggesting would help in that regard. Lower tiers are in dire need of stability in order to develop in a healthy manner. Let's not have Azumarill move down to NU the same month Jellicent moves up to OU again.

 

TLDR:

• Movements in OU/UU should me more frequents than movements in UU/NU.
• Movements in OU/UU should be less likely when movements in UU/NU are more likely.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by gbwead

[Munya]

Yoyos typically don't happen anymore though do they?  I definitely recall 2 months where nothings has changed so I neglected to even make a post for them.  Big changes happen at the seasonal change for sure but thats kind of by design so that each season is different.  If we wish to revisit some of the %'s people are open to discuss it, i just yoinked most of them from some smogon tiering process thread thing whenever we started doing seasons.

[gbwead]

@Luke @Azphiel @PoseidonWrath @DoubleJ @Stelian @Huargensy

Your voice and input could really make a difference. Please speak up before 2023 starts.

[caioxlive13]

 

Well, we have to consider one thing in this discussion, which is how the system works. It's no use changing the Cut-offs, whenever something comes up it will be brutally spammed at first to stabilize in the future. We have to understand the problem at the root. 

Let's analyze something, in big tournaments like PSL, World Cup, Team Tournaments and Season finales, did we see any gimmick combo appear, such as Weezing + Slaking in doubles, for example? Not. In high level Ladder battles, do we also see these things? A lot at first, but it goes away quickly. 

The problem originates from where the usage chaos comes from, and which currently supports Jolteon and Milotic usage in OU: the Low Ladder. If the low ladder is where the chaos occurs and messes up the usage, keeping two pokemons that have very weak niches in the OU, the solution may be simpler. We need to vanish away the usage of they and get more value on High ladder usage matches.

We can do the following thing: 

• Matches with ranking 450- or coming from one or both players having less than 10 games played, will be 100% disconsidered.
• Matches with ranking 450 - 550, coming from both players having more than 10 games played, will be considered with weight 1.
• Matches with ranking 550 - 650,  will be considered with weight 2.
• Matches with ranking 650+,  will be considered with weight 3.
• Matches when both players involved are top ranks, will be considered with weight 4.

Also, a thing that can be done to avoid a match of low ladder getting considered because he faced a veteran, can be balancing your opponent. System will always try to put you against the player with most closest elo possible that are on queue(UU and NU due to low playerbase will not get impacted at all, but OU will, making novice players never facing tough players when at low ladder, and getting more hardest opponents while rising their Elo.

[gbwead]

4 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

 

Well, we have to consider one thing in this discussion, which is how the system works. It's no use changing the Cut-offs, whenever something comes up it will be brutally spammed at first to stabilize in the future. We have to understand the problem at the root. 

Let's analyze something, in big tournaments like PSL, World Cup, Team Tournaments and Season finales, did we see any gimmick combo appear, such as Weezing + Slaking in doubles, for example? Not. In high level Ladder battles, do we also see these things? A lot at first, but it goes away quickly. 

The problem originates from where the usage chaos comes from, and which currently supports Jolteon and Milotic usage in OU: the Low Ladder. If the low ladder is where the chaos occurs and messes up the usage, keeping two pokemons that have very weak niches in the OU, the solution may be simpler. We need to vanish away the usage of they and get more value on High ladder usage matches.

We can do the following thing: 

• Matches with ranking 450- or coming from one or both players having less than 10 games played, will be 100% disconsidered.
• Matches with ranking 450 - 550, coming from both players having more than 10 games played, will be considered with weight 1.
• Matches with ranking 550 - 650,  will be considered with weight 2.
• Matches with ranking 650+,  will be considered with weight 3.
• Matches when both players involved are top ranks, will be considered with weight 4.

Also, a thing that can be done to avoid a match of low ladder getting considered because he faced a veteran, can be balancing your opponent. System will always try to put you against the player with most closest elo possible that are on queue(UU and NU due to low playerbase will not get impacted at all, but OU will, making novice players never facing tough players when at low ladder, and getting more hardest opponents while rising their Elo.

This is great and all, but it requires intervention from devs. What I am suggesting is not as good, but doesn't require any work.