[UU Discussion] Staraptor

[Parke]

 

Overview:

Staraptor has started causing some major havoc in the newly established UU tier. Staraptor is most notorious for its Reckless ability which can be used with Brave Bird and Double-Edge in combination for enormous damage. Combined with a very respectable 100 speed stat, Staraptor has become one of the fiercest forces of the current UU tier. The most defining aspect of Staraptor is its sheer power. Reckless-boosted 120 base power moves do enormous damage to pretty much anything. When you add to the equation, that Staraptor may boost its power even further with Choice Band - it becomes quite clear countering this bird becomes quite of an issue. Some may prefer using Choice Scarf instead, due to the fact now Staraptor exerts major pressure over the whole tier and by using Choice Scarf doesn't allow even other sweepers to outspeed it.

Effect to the metagame:
The most notable effect to the metagame by Staraptor is that it way too often just tears opposing teams into pieces - no questions asked. Choice Band Staraptor serves as insanely strong wallbreaker, to the point of just maybe being a bit too good at its job. Meanwhile Choice Scarf Staraptor serves as one of the most threatening late game cleaners in the entire tier. The viability of both sets also creates very awkward kind of certainty from opposing point of view.

 

The main problem with Choice Band Staraptor is giving its user effectively way too easily a chance to say to its opponent "You are going to sacrifice a Pokemon to me, right now". Choice Band Staraptor simply 2HKOs basically everything in the tier. Bronzong being the main Steel-type of UU also takes an uncomfortable amount of damage from Close Combat, which could be set up to KO relatively easily with the use of U-Turns.

 

Choice Scarf Staraptor basically is saying "I am so good at dishing damage, so I can sacrifice my wallbreaking potential by being the fastest Pokemon in the tier". Considering many Pokemon weren't counting on countering Staraptor in the first place, this is rather acceptable price. All of this results Staraptor in a battle having the fear of Choice Band and Choice Scarf at the same time, leaving opposing side often helpless when they cannot find a way to fix the situation.

Calcs, checks and counters:

What comes to Choice Band Staraptor, there's simply a clear lack of counters to it in general. This is demonstrated with calcs below:

 

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 64-76 (36.7 - 43.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 112-133 (52 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 151-178 (96.1 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 100-118 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 118-139 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 86-102 (47.2 - 56%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 117-138 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Suggestion for ban criterion:

Staraptor appears to be a Pokemon, that in tiering is defined as "Offensive Uber Characteristics". It has a good speed and effectively no switch-ins due to its insane raw power. This is why Staraptor could be easily defined as "A Pokemon that sweeps with little to no effort". While it is true Staraptor takes uncomfortable amount of recoil for its efforts, being able to take down multiple Pokemon often completely uncontested just pins opponents into extremely uncomfortable positions. The Tier Council feels that Staraptor, given its capability by being both an unstoppable wallbreaker and with Choice Scarf arguably one of the best sweepers in the game, falls into "Offensive Uber Characteristics" within UU tier.

 

Prompt for discussion:

- Do you think Staraptor is Offensive Uber Characteristics? Why so or why not?

 

Please discuss!

[gbwead]

Bronzong does the job pretty well vs Staraptor imo. Close Combat is not a move Staraptor likes to lock itself into and Bronzong can still tank it decently. The main issue is that aside from Bronzong, there are not that many options. Teams without Bronzong need to compromise a lot vs Staraptor and that's not good. For instance, if a Bronzongless team faces Staraptor it might be forced into a position where it will need to sacrifice its RH Hippowdon and that will later mean an opening for Lucario or Salamence. The same thing also applies if the player chooses to sacrifice Blissey into Brave Bird and that will leave a door open for Raikou. In many ways, Staraptor makes the best UU mons better than they need to be.

 

Thankfully, Staraptor on paper and Staraptor on the field are two completly different mons. Without Brave Bird or Double Edge, Staraptor will not accomplish much, so it's not too difficult to force it to take recoil dmg. Its limited switch in opportunities can also seriously hinder it vs some offensive cores. Staraptor doesn't really do anything good for the current meta, so if it gets banned it looks more like a positive than a negative, but it's not an absolute must imo.
 

1 hour ago, Parke said:

Calcs, checks and counters:
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 117-138 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

We have seen Rhyperior Impish get some decent degree of success (CC UU #421 Finale) and I think it deserves a mention.
Also, Mummy Cofagrigus is a very important check. It's far from perfect and takes a shit ton of dmg, but it can contribute in bringing down Staraptor in a defensive core. 
Bisharp could also be considered a very soft check with a few 50/50s Brave Bird vs Close Combat, but also Dark Gem Sucker Punch vs Dark Gem Pursuit.

Edited October 27 by gbwead

[IKoritsu]

Ban too stronk, by the time you actually force this mon to take enough recoil damage to revenge kill or for it to die itself, it has already accomplished its job perfectly for its offensive core partners to clean up the rest. 

[Justa102]

Personally, Staraptor is under "Offensive Uber Characteristics", as the post already said there are really limited checks in the tier, and that's the problem, it limits teambuilding quite a lot, no matter banded or scarf, it can still put out insane amount of damage, and pair that up with a 100 base speed stat, which puts it above the speed tier of a lot of usual scarfers in the tier. Can it be revenged? sure, but if it comes in on a slower mon you're basically counting your last days if your staraptor switch-in is chipped or you dont have one

One of the combos that is being used quite a bit right now is wish teleport blissey with starapator, meaning starapator can come in and claim easier without having to worry that much about rocks or the recoil that both brave bird/ double edge give or rocky helmet. Even without blissey's wish support it can be as threatening with good positioning, basically if your team is not running a dedicated staraptor switchin such as rhyperior or bronzong you're already at a disadvantage.

Another combo is with lucario, one of the most reliable checks for lucario right now is hippo, and yet even with hippo's incredible defensive stats it can only barely live a +2 adamant close combat from lucario, and this is without considering rocks or any kind of hazards on the field, staraptor can open up a lot of walls that are dedicated for lucario, such as mantine and cofa

What i believe should be done is that both lucario and staraptor should go back to UUBL where it belongs, this problem has happened again and again with the tier, crawdaunt is an example that i can think of that had limited switch-ins, however it was not as bad as lucario and staraptor as of now, since its speed stat was not good and he only had aqua jet as prio, which is nothing compared to lucario's extreme speed, mach punch and vacuum wave

Basically, staraptor is simply just too strong for the tier, and it should not be allowed to stay in it any longer.






 

[TohnR]

This should be the mon with the least debate out of all the BLs that drop, since what makes Staraptor broken is quite obvious.

 

As shown with the calcs, this mon deals way too much damage if not resisted on its Flying/Normal STABs.
Historically this combo of STABs is only resisted by Bronzong and Bisharp in UU (could include NUBL Rhyperior and slightly more niche Gigalith).

Those are of course not even safe switch ins as Staraptor has U-Turn + Close Combat in its kit.

 

Add to that fact Staraptor has 100 base speed, which is more or equal to probably 80% of UU mons, only most commonly outsped by Crobat, Raikou, Ambipom, and scarfers.

It is faster than any other wallbreaker UU has ever had, except Durant, but is way more reliable. Currently its competitors for wallbreaking all lost a lot of usage due to being too slow for the very offensive metagame, but Staraptor just happends to do the job better while having a competitive speed tier.

 

Spoiler

This speedtier is so common among the top tier threats of the metagame that UU has become a speed tie fest but that's an unrelated issue

 

 

Edited October 28 by TohnR

[PoseidonWrath]

it hurts my diglett/shedninja teams,   Ban

[Munya]

it is banned, ty