[Implemented] Crit Mechanics gen VI

[ThinkNice]

My suggestion is to take the gen VI mechanic of crits and use that. Basicaly it means crits won't do double the damage anymore but 1,5x the damage (still negating defensive boosts).

 

Pros:

- Less game changing crits

- Better shot at recovering

 

Cons:

no

[NaitDawg]

but how will amanub win games

[Greck]

Good idea, or doing this random, like a crit with 110% - 200% of the damage (for example)

[TheGloriousWalrus]

Good idea, or doing this random, like a crit with 110% - 200% of the damage (for example)

that takes min max to a whole new universe.

[spoiler]in favor of better crit system, but then again, how ELSE are you going to stop a curselax.[/spoiler]

[bl0nde]

it's still significant, but the RNG crits are less game changing. i would not have a problem with this being implemented.

[Frag]

that takes min max to a whole new universe.

[spoiler]in favor of better crit system, but then again, how ELSE are you going to stop a curselax.[/spoiler]

 

u dont need a crit to beat a lax lol.

[TheGloriousWalrus]

u dont need a crit to beat a lax lol.

I thought it was obvious my post was jokingly.

[iSmashbro]

Good idea, or doing this random, like a crit with 110% - 200% of the damage (for example)

Because the game isn't RNG-based enough as it is.

[Emlee]

I think this is a step in the right direction. RNG/crits would still (obviously) remain as a factor in competitive play but this could make it less significant. It's not uncommon for crits to help determine a match's outcome, so if it were possible to lessen this then I think the competitive scene would benefit. It would also mean official tournaments (well any tournament) could have more representative outcomes. This is something I believe the staff heavily involved in events should strive for since they are giving out considerable riches to those who win. That person winning should have won mostly because of skill, and less because of RNG. I understand RNG is a big factor in Pokemon but I think since the mechanics were altered (improved upon) in Gen VI for crits PokeMMO should benefit from emulating that too, imo. 

[Munya]

Are you suggesting the crit stages be changed too for this? or just the damage.  That change was made with being able to reach 100% crit in mind, i am sure.

[Darkshade]

I was waiting for this suggestion to arise.

 

Whilst I personally don't think it's a bad idea to mix mechanics together in an effort for further balance, you may have overlooked (Or chose to intentionally not include) the fact that Crit rates were also altered in Generation VI to match these new damage mechanics.

 

(As Munya also stated whilst I was typing this)

 

 

And with the above, the future implementation of Generaton IV's 'Sniper' ability, gives Pokemon such as Kingdra a boosted 100% chance to Critical Hit with the use of a Scope Lens and Focus Energy.

 

You could argue that Scope Lens isn't used competitively, but it's still relevant to good games design, even in PvE.

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts behind the implementation of the Generation VI Critical Hit damage changes without the Generation VI rates in particular.

[Tranzmaster]

Added to what Darkshade typed above:

 

- I'd like to point out that it will also weaken moves that have an increased critical rate percentage. (Aeroblast, Air Cutter, Blaze Kick, Crabhammer, Cross Chop, Karate Chop, Leaf Blade, Poison Tail, Razor Leaf, Razor Wind, Slash). This also implies that any "strategy" involving critical hits are weakened. I agree that relying on critical hits is not a good way, but it's now even worse because you're setting up on stuff that will no longer do significant damage.

 

- I believe there is an overusage of walls in our meta. With critical damage reduced, you're 1) Limiting offensive power and 2) Unable to break through Def and Sp Def set ups well enough anymore. (Curse, Acid Armor, Calm Mind).

 

Even all of the above aside, the "hax" nerf is nice, but 1,5x is insignificant to something that only happens 6,25% of the time. 

 

IMO, if you consider it all together, there is no actual benefit in implementing this. It even goes against some of the logic towards certain issues we have in our current metagame.

[Robofiend]

just gotta learn to use stall time well and power up your crits

[spoiler]

hue

[spoiler]

this isn't a bad idea, crit hax are kinda lame

[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[JWingWangWong]

Well if reducing the damage of criticals and increasing the critical changes in each stage would mean there is a better chance critical moves will hit more often. I think you are missing that. In gen VI if you have a stage three crit you are 50% likely to hit the user with a crit at 1.5x damage vs a user in gen II - IV who has a stage three crit you are 33% likely to hit the user with a crit at 2.0x damage. Honestly though I don't understand why PokeMMO just separates each generation of metagame into its own category instead of taking a bit of each generation and making into some odd metagame that favors walls. Example being I could play a GEN III match against a user or a GEN IV match because in reality making a GEN III metagame that is heavily modified will just result in confusion of what you can do and what you can't do.

 

Also correction to your crit. table you realize that the table's 5th stage says 33%? That doesn't make sense as it lowers by .3%. The actual event that happens in the 5th stage in gen II-V is 50%.

[Emlee]

Are people still whining about walls? ;_; 

 

I don't think I like the statements about walls being used as grounds against a crit rework. Why? Mostly because I am biased and think walls can be dealt with in OU without needing crits (obvi) and that UU/NU is just much more interesting anywho/I don't see the complaints about walls in those metas. 

 

I do not claim to know everything about pvp, nor do I know a lot, but I do think crits could possibly be tweaked in game to have less of an impact. Whether that's taking some points from Gen VI or or doing something more "PokeMMO" then I have an open mind to it. I don't think the devs should always rework mechanics but I do think that crit wins are (should be) unpleasant for both those winning and losing (I.E: "Why did I lose over that?" and "Feels shitty to win this way"). 

 

I don't know if this is a huge issue that needs full attention from everyone but I am not opposed to it, just my thoughts. 

[JWingWangWong]

I dunno is walls something to be whining about? I just read a few things in competitive I'm literally the worst pokemon player.

[Emlee]

I dunno is walls something to be whining about? I just read a few things in competitive I'm literally the worst pokemon player.

IMO it's not something to whine about in terms of "They can't be dealt with/ I find it hard to deal with them", if you're just stating your opinion and saying "I don't like the strategy behind walls" then okay that's an opinion and you're entitled to it. 

[Darkshade]

Honestly though I don't understand why PokeMMO just separates each generation of metagame into its own category instead of taking a bit of each generation and making into some odd metagame that favors walls.

 

It doesn't, as you can see with Hidden Power, and other such moves;

 

Whilst I personally don't think it's a bad idea to mix mechanics together in an effort for further balance

 

Although, as you also stated shortly after, it could be confusing to players without some sort of in-game guide explaining each move, per move.

 

Also yes, the table should say 50%.

 

 

Lowering crits to give a better chance of survival isn't neccessarily a bad idea, but it's not much different from the "I dislike the way I lost due to it being based on RNG rather than skill" it was before.

[Emlee]

Lowering crits to give a better chance of survival isn't neccessarily a bad idea, but it's not much different from the "I dislike the way I lost due to it being based on RNG rather than skill" it was before.

 

I don't understand this statement. Can you explain the point it's making?

[spoiler]This isn't sarcasm etc haha, I just can't conclude anything oops[/spoiler]

[Frag]

this discussion is ridiculous, if u have a good team break walls isnt hard, this suggestion is one of the best i eveer seen.

This game should be oriented to skills no rng.

 

Also i think critals has been made to break spam of recovery moves, not to break a strategy.

[JWingWangWong]

IMO it's not something to whine about in terms of "They can't be dealt with/ I find it hard to deal with them", if you're just stating your opinion and saying "I don't like the strategy behind walls" then okay that's an opinion and you're entitled to it.

So in other words this strategy exists in all other meta games?

[Darkshade]

I don't understand this statement. Can you explain the point it's making?

[spoiler]This isn't sarcasm etc haha, I just can't conclude anything oops[/spoiler]

 

In other words;

 

It really doesn't make that much of a difference to lower crit damage, it's still additional damage that ignores defensive boosts, it may have a slightly higher chance of keeping an additional Pokemon alive, but that doesn't completely take away from the feeling of "They got a crit, that is unfair".

 

The problem lies within Critical Hits in general, the only way to make Critical Hits 'fair' would be to nerf them to the ground, thus defeating the point of them entirely.

 

Which additionally, as Tranzmaster also pointed out above, largely takes away from multiple moves that rely on crit damage as part of their niche.

[JWingWangWong]

But don't those niche moves that rely on crit boosts become more accurate meaning they hit more?

[Senile]

In other words;

 

It really doesn't make that much of a difference to lower crit damage, it's still additional damage that ignores defensive boosts, it may have a slightly higher chance of keeping an additional Pokemon alive, but that doesn't completely take away from the feeling of "They got a crit, that is unfair".

 

The problem lies within Critical Hits in general, the only way to make Critical Hits 'fair' would be to nerf them to the ground, thus defeating the point of them entirely.

 

Which additionally, as Tranzmaster also pointed out above, largely takes away from multiple moves that rely on crit damage as part of their niche.

I disagree entirely. I've played 6th gen a rather good amount, and the difference between 1.5x and 2x is fucking massive. So many times have I been hit by a critical and survived with a small amount of HP, while with 2x I would have been dead on the spot, and one of the few, if not only check to whatever threat they have out would have been eliminated.

Also, regarding Sniper Kingdra, Sniper increases critical damage, not critical hit rate. Super Luck increases critical hit rate by 1. (Although, neither ability is 3rd gen) It's Scope Lens + Focus Energy that actually grants 100% crit rate. In fact, you could argue that implementing gen 6 critical mechanics would weaken some of the most used "Defensive" pokemon, as a Curselax isn't quite as potent when any physical attacker with Focus Energy holding a Scope Lens can break through his curses, provided they get at least 1 turn to setup. This is especially true when you look at how many fighting types get Focus Energy.

If anything, this is probably one of the better suggestions I've seen recently.

[spoiler]Focus Energy Cross Chop Machamp. uwotm8?[/spoiler]

[Emlee]

In other words;

 

It really doesn't make that much of a difference to lower crit damage, it's still additional damage that ignores defensive boosts, it may have a slightly higher chance of keeping an additional Pokemon alive, but that doesn't completely take away from the feeling of "They got a crit, that is unfair".

 

The problem lies within Critical Hits in general, the only way to make Critical Hits 'fair' would be to nerf them to the ground, thus defeating the point of them entirely.

 

Which additionally, as Tranzmaster also pointed out above, largely takes away from multiple moves that rely on crit damage as part of their niche.

Yes, I understand. I just don't think people should be able to get enough crits to have a match that was obviously out of their favour end in their favour/winning. (Is this occurring enough to be of significance though? I am unsure)

 

Please look at this as less of a whine/complaint and more as a legitimate suggestion. I know it's easy to dismiss it as whining but I do believe it has a point and concerns staff as they give away prizes of high value to people who may be winning due to crits. I am unsure of the statistics on it, and if this is occurring enough to require/suggest a rework but I think it is something to consider. 

 

I understand this may relate to recent events but I hope no one thinks I am (or anyone) is accusing tons of people with winning solely based on crits, I think if there's evidence of this occurring enough then the mechanics could be examined and possibly reworked or official events could have some sort of buffer against this (such as more Double Elimination tournaments or other formats). 

 

My statements are a bit of a stretch from the suggestion of the OP but yeah, just some things to ponder about!