OU Viability Thread

[codylramey]

hp electric is viable on several water types that i listed. i would not have listed it if it was not viable.

everything i listed other then arguably lapras is viable. half of them are already on the OU viability thread which only has a dozen pokemon listed so far.

 

 

skarm, vapo(d edge has recoil), aero, slowbro (if you are not running crunch for some reason), starmie (see slowbro), other things i am too tired to think of?

It may be usable but when you are giving up a much better move for an electric move for one poke then you are doing something wrong. You can not try and tell me that vapo, and the team that vapo is on, would not benefit more from healbell than hp electric w/o gyara, and slowbro would benefit more from psychic. I mean can you honesty tell me that HP electric would be a sought after thing on any bulky water if it wasnt for gyara.

[fredrichnietze]

It may be usable but when you are giving up a much better move for an electric move for one poke then you are doing something wrong. You can not try and tell me that vapo, and the team that vapo is on, would not benefit more from healbell than hp electric w/o gyara, and slowbro would benefit more from psychic. I mean can you honesty tell me that HP electric would be a sought after thing on any bulky water if it wasnt for gyara.

i disagree with your opinion. heal bell is great but if you have say bliss, you dont need multiple heal bell pokes. as one move can surprise several water types who think they have a free switch and do large amounts of damage, i would say that hp electric is viable. i disagree with your logic that "it's very useful for a few pokes but not useful vs everything=non viable" and would like to point out hp grass/ice as evidence. one good surprise that does srs damage to your enemy's team is viable in my opinion.

[codylramey]

i disagree with your opinion. heal bell is great but if you have say bliss, you dont need multiple heal bell pokes. as one move can surprise several water types who think they have a free switch and do large amounts of damage, i would say that hp electric is viable. i disagree with your logic that "it's very useful for a few pokes but not useful vs everything=non viable" and would like to point out hp grass/ice as evidence. one good surprise that does srs damage to your enemy's team is viable in my opinion.

Thats not the logic i am using. Its useful for 1 poke. With out that one poke in the picture you are running it to surprise other water types. You know what we call surprise move sets in this meta? A gimmick.

 

Also most water types arent all that troublesome anyway. Most are walled by bliss and lax. The others are gyara who is badass and azumeril who is meh. I guess that crab thing is something to consider too but hes just a worse gyara is he not

Edited February 17, 2015 by codylramey

[DoubleJ]

If you play the game you'll notice that it isn't that easy to sweep with Gyarados. He does put a ton of pressure on your opponent, but he doesn't have that "get up and go" that you would assume.

 

With Jolly +1 you just don't OHKO the things you need to. They in turn wreck your face with an electric-type more or some other hard hitting attack. I've found that while very resourceful, you just tend to come in, Dragon Dance, and are forced out. Without a +1 boost you just don't hit hard enough.

 

Now if you can pull off a +2, now that's when you get scary. You still don't OHKO Blissey, Snorlax, Slowbro, Forretress, Weezing, Ludicolo, Vaporeon, Venusaur, Dusclops, Kingdra, Gyarados, Machamp, Swampert, or Umbreon. And each of those can pack an Electric-type attack to do massive damage or kill, a status move to cripple, or a strong STAB that can hurt as well. You even have trouble OHKO'ing Metagross with EQ with only 252 HP investment.

 

All in all, Gyarados is a beast late-game, but it doesn't have the coverage or instant attacking power to sweep like an S-Rank should. 

[codylramey]

 

If you play the game you'll notice that it isn't that easy to sweep with Gyarados. He does put a ton of pressure on your opponent, but he doesn't have that "get up and go" that you would assume.

 

With Jolly +1 you just don't OHKO the things you need to. They in turn wreck your face with an electric-type more or some other hard hitting attack. I've found that while very resourceful, you just tend to come in, Dragon Dance, and are forced out. Without a +1 boost you just don't hit hard enough.

 

Now if you can pull off a +2, now that's when you get scary. You still don't OHKO Blissey, Snorlax, Slowbro, Forretress, Weezing, Ludicolo, Vaporeon, Venusaur, Dusclops, Kingdra, Gyarados, Machamp, Swampert, or Umbreon. And each of those can pack an Electric-type attack to do massive damage or kill, a status move to cripple, or a strong STAB that can hurt as well. You even have trouble OHKO'ing Metagross with EQ with only 252 HP investment.

 

All in all, Gyarados is a beast late-game, but it doesn't have the coverage or instant attacking power to sweep like an S-Rank should. 

 

I saw ur post JJ. I havent gotten to use gyara too much yet except that gimiky flail one i need to fix (which would have rekt art had it been EVd right). But i have gone agaisnt many gyaras since the update and i can deff feel the pressure it puts on you as an opponent. If he is played right he shouldnt have any problems coming in, hitting/baiting, and running away until its rdy for a sweep. But i guess i should use one so i can see first hand what its like. 

[fredrichnietze]

Thats not the logic i am using. Its useful for 1 poke. With out that one poke in the picture you are running it to surprise other water types. You know what we call surprise move sets in this meta? A gimmick.

 

Also most water types arent all that troublesome anyway. Most are walled by bliss and lax. The others are gyara who is badass and azumeril who is meh. I guess that crab thing is something to consider too but hes just a worse gyara is he not

starmie

other slowbros

gyarados

vapo with haze/roar

 

all pokemon that can normally switch in vs cm slowbro and give it a lot of trouble or just kill it outright. hp electric kills them regardless of the players knowledge of the attack. it does not require your opponent to make a mistake to kill them. it just kills them. a gimmick would be something like swagger + psych up which requiers your opponent not knowing how it works in order for it to work.

[codylramey]

On slowbro HP electric only does 1% more damage than phsychic does against Vaporeon

 

Against starmie its good. But you are still going to lose 70% of ur health to a timid one and 80-90% to a modest one. So its much better to switch out to ur spcl wall.

 

My argument was that W/o Gyara HP electric would be a lot less viable so he doesnt rly count

 

Slow bro ill give you that one, but it seems like a rediculous argument imo.

 

W/o psychic you are giving up a way to kill gengar, and to damage ludicolo. And jolteon would love to switch in on HP electric once the player knows you have it.

[fredrichnietze]

On slowbro HP electric only does 1% more damage than phsychic does against Vaporeon

 

Against starmie its good. But you are still going to lose 70% of ur health to a timid one and 80-90% to a modest one. So its much better to switch out to ur spcl wall.

 

My argument was that W/o Gyara HP electric would be a lot less viable so he doesnt rly count

 

Slow bro ill give you that one, but it seems like a rediculous argument imo.

 

W/o psychic you are giving up a way to kill gengar, and to damage ludicolo. And jolteon would love to switch in on HP electric once the player knows you have it.

gengar still dies from i beam just 2-3hko instead of possible 1hko based off # of cm's/ev spread on gar.

ludi neutral vs i beam

jolt loves switching in vs hp electric sure but thats why you cm up

 

also arent you forgetting calm mind?

[Shaniqualela]

this isn't smogon btw
We don't use those on every rank

The descriptions we use to define the ranks are literally copy and pasted from smogon

[DrCraig]

The descriptions we use to define the ranks are literally copy and pasted from smogon

Fallacy

I'm talking about the '+' and '-' for every letter

[codylramey]

gengar still dies from i beam just 2-3hko instead of possible 1hko based off # of cm's/ev spread on gar.

ludi neutral vs i beam

jolt loves switching in vs hp electric sure but thats why you cm up

 

also arent you forgetting calm mind?

w8so ur running bolt beam calm mind? doesnt that get shrekt by lax and bliss. gar can 2hko slowbro even at +1, and i was running clacs assuming slowbro was CMing on the swtich. Ofc he can keep calm minding but at that point there is no need for SE move. Just keep going and hope you dont get crit.

[TheNightArch]

w8so ur running bolt beam calm mind? doesnt that get shrekt by lax and bliss.

Slowbro loses to lax/bliss anyways.

[DrCraig]

Slowbro loses to lax/bliss anyways.

Depends

[TheNightArch]

Depends

Yeah, if the slowbro already has a couple CM's stacked it could beat lax, but most blisseys carry toxic for it anyways.

[DoubleJ]

Bliss vs +6 Bro is just a stall fest. No one wins happily.

[YagamiNoir]

Bliss vs +6 Bro is just a stall fest. No one wins happily.

Thankfully Psyshock wasn't in gen 4 yet.

[Robofiend]

Might need some opinions on this one:

 

Rhydon: somewhere between C and B-

 

It's a pretty fearless Snorlax check that can also make the newly popular Weezing shit itself by setting up an impenatrable Sub and proceeding to Swords Dance up enough to break it. That said, Rock/Ground typing, awful Spdef and Speed give it very few opportunities to get into play, outside of abusing these two's weaknesses. Its inabilty to dent Flygon can also ruin its fun pretty quickly. That said, the lack of Skarmory or other phasers gives it a lot of potential to hit almost anything really hard with its hard to resist STAB combo.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Robofiend

[DoubleJ]

I'm digging the B- rank on Rhydon. Too good to be a C. As a wall breaker it has great speed and that power is cray.

[codylramey]

Might need some opinions on this one:

 

Rhydon: somewhere between C and B-

 

It's a pretty fearless Snorlax check that can also make the newly popular Weezing shit itself by setting up an impenatrable Sub and proceeding to Swords Dance up enough to break it. That said, Rock/Ground typing, awful Spdef and Speed give it very few opportunities to get into play, outside of abusing these two's weaknesses. Its inabilty to dent Flygon can also ruin its fun pretty quickly. That said, the lack of Skarmory or other phasers gives it a lot of potential to hit almost anything really hard with its hard to resist STAB combo.

.rhydon can make a good CB user too. Which would mean running icepunch which would destroy flygon if predicted correctly.

[fredrichnietze]

Might need some opinions on this one:

 

Rhydon: somewhere between C and B-

 

It's a pretty fearless Snorlax check that can also make the newly popular Weezing shit itself by setting up an impenatrable Sub and proceeding to Swords Dance up enough to break it. That said, Rock/Ground typing, awful Spdef and Speed give it very few opportunities to get into play, outside of abusing these two's weaknesses. Its inabilty to dent Flygon can also ruin its fun pretty quickly. That said, the lack of Skarmory or other phasers gives it a lot of potential to hit almost anything really hard with its hard to resist STAB combo.

hp ice/grass weez break the sub but b rank imo. too much ice punch/waterfall for it to come in vs all the physical attackers like it could in the past.

[Excelimpulse]

is it just me or does uu seem like it's way more viable for a legit tier? Like ou seems like bl tier now.

[flavajabari]

is it just me or does uu seem like it's way more viable for a legit tier? Like ou seems like bl tier now.

 

its just you.

uu is broken af at the moment

[Noad]

is it just me or does uu seem like it's way more viable for a legit tier? Like ou seems like bl tier now.

UU viability has nothing to do with OU viability (which is what this thread is discussing.) Please keep on topic in Comp Alley threads. 

[Gunthug]

is it just me or does uu seem like it's way more viable for a legit tier? Like ou seems like bl tier now.

Imo UU was a way more viable tier than OU for months and months before the update.

[Excelimpulse]

Imo UU was a way more viable tier than OU for months and months before the update.

Now ou is border line tier imo. It's just bad and salty. I miss the days of prediction and less rng from snorkax body slam and a para hax blissey. Now it's just every game who can have the most luck. Or I have been getting in some really unlucky games lately.