Is Team Preview Healthy?

[PandaJJ]

I feel like I want to see this happen more and more now, so I want to make another comment

 

You have to keep in mind why Team Preview was added in gen 5.

 

In each pokemon game there have been attempts to balance out problems of the previous generation, not necesseraily to balance out problems in it's own generation. Dark and steel types were not introduced in gen 2 because gen 2 had lots of good psychic and normal type pokemon - it was introduced because these types were incredibly powerful in gen 1. Similarily, gen 6 did not introduce fairy type because gen 6 have lots of strong dragon pokemon, dragon pokemon were already a problem in gen 5. This might suggest that team preview was already needed in gen 4. Now, I'm not saying that gen 5 did not bring stuff that made team preview even more necessary, but it does not follow directly that gen 4 did not need team preveiw just because it wasn't introduced untill gen 5. Another thing to note is that pokemmo is not gen 4 - yet, I feel we have seen reasons as to why it is nice to have so far. The banning of dragonite has made a lot of new pokemon viable, to the point where team preview is actually not unecessary.

 

Team preview would kill most midgame scouting, an important part of the game.

 

This depends on what kind of format you are playing. In VGC tournaments, you are forced to use the same team the entire tournament. In theory, you already know most of your opponents movesets by the 2nd round, given that you have friends to scout for you. Hence, midgame scouting is mostly absent from the game overall. It is probably an unfair comparison, since VGC is totally different from pokemmo singles on pretty much every level. My point is that whether midgame scouting is an imprtiant part of the game or not is of personal preference.

 

I agree with this although I can't imagine they would only enforce team preview in UU and not in OU

 

Why would you only have team preview in UU? Since the cutoff point for UU is quite high, it is only reasonable that we will see many bans from UU pretty soon. The current UU is just a beta, and I doubt it will actually look very similar to what it is now for too long. If team preview doesn't work in OU, there is no reason to have it at all.

[codylramey]

I wouldnt mind team preview to be tested. ts hard to imagine exactly what it will bring to pokemmo. I know that being able to know what will come in on X pokemon will help ppl who tend to blind predict from the beginning a lot. Could you imagine using slowbro as a metagross counter and he knew to tpunch right away. Also CB users will become much more deadly imo. 

[OldKeith]

Nice discussions going there.

 

In the end, the question is whether we want to create our strategy before the battle, or have scouting as part of the strategy.

 

In terms of reversal/guts/trappers, maybe team preview would make them more competitive, as you would plan the battle from the beginning, without being forced to blind predict.

 

I tend to be alright with either option, it is certainly not an urgent necessity, but it would ultimately bring the game forward in my opinion.

[dataforce]

I personally think that team preview would not be a good thing to implement.

One of the biggest parts of battling (at least in my eyes) is thinking ahead. If I've got a Forretress out and someone else has a Heracross, they're probably going to switch. Most likely into something that can hit from the special spectrum, like Arcanine. But I don't know exactly what will come out, and therefore I'd need to think ahead.

If I see an Arcanine as his only special-attacking pokemon, however, I can make a very safe assumption that he'll bring it in, and act accordingly (say, a Slowbro). Reading the teams ahead of time may have its benefits for both players, and some selfish part of me wants team preview implemented, but I don't think it's good for the metagame. It might very well wind up making predictions easier and encourage less thinking and planning than without team preview.

 

NOTE: This is just my opinion, taken from some personal experience on Showdown and Pokemmo battles. Feel free to disagree; I do NOT want to start any nasty arguments over this.

[OldKeith]

I personally think that team preview would not be a good thing to implement.

One of the biggest parts of battling (at least in my eyes) is thinking ahead. If I've got a Forretress out and someone else has a Heracross, they're probably going to switch. Most likely into something that can hit from the special spectrum, like Arcanine. But I don't know exactly what will come out, and therefore I'd need to think ahead.

If I see an Arcanine as his only special-attacking pokemon, however, I can make a very safe assumption that he'll bring it in, and act accordingly (say, a Slowbro). Reading the teams ahead of time may have its benefits for both players, and some selfish part of me wants team preview implemented, but I don't think it's good for the metagame. It might very well wind up making predictions easier and encourage less thinking and planning than without team preview.

 

NOTE: This is just my opinion, taken from some personal experience on Showdown and Pokemmo battles. Feel free to disagree; I do NOT want to start any nasty arguments over this.

 

The thinking ahead part you mention is called a blind prediction, it's not really thinking but playing a guessing game.

 

In the pokemmo meta, big teams scout in tournaments, and a new player would stand no chance against a team that goes scouting him and countering.

 

This is creating an imbalance, and makes trappers problematic and a bit uncompetitive. To have a fair matchup, the best way in my view is to have both teams presented at the beginning of the battle. This way you will know if your opponent is trying to counter team you, and would give everyone a fair chance versus someone who scouted his team.

Edited February 22, 2015 by OldKeith

[codylramey]

The thinking ahead part you mention is called a blind prediction, it's not really thinking but playing a guessing game.

 

In the pokemmo meta, big teams scout in tournaments, and a new player would stand no chance against a team that goes scouting him and countering.

 

This is creating an imbalance, and makes trappers problematic and a bit uncompetitive. To have a fair matchup, the best way in my view is to have both teams presented at the beginning of the battle. This way you will know if your opponent is trying to counter team you, and would give everyone a fair chance versus someone who scouted his team.

This is why i change up my team often. At least one or two pokes, or if im running the same poke ill run diff sets for them to fulfill diff roles (I have 20 gengars, some UT). The problem comes when in the middle of o tourny i end up creating a team where i overlook a weakness or something bc im trying to change it up.

[Liku]

Going blind into battle means 1 trick pony players can beat better players and knock them out of turnament way too easily. I think it doenst promote adaptibility to the situation and overall consistent and solid game play. There is enough ˝cheesy˝ play possible by different movesets that different pokemon can learn but it still does allow for some counterplay. Its really frustrating not to be able to have a game plan going into the game. I think if it is possible to make blind battles optional it should be implemented however if there is a question between blind and preview my vote goes to preview. I have yet to see a good argument not to have preview teams.

 

There are more than enough luck factors involved already in the game, so there is room for removing some.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Liku

[epicdavenport]

I think an easy solution would be to make it a choice in the challenge to duel screen, where you are choosing the options for the match just add a option for team preview. In any tournament the host can request this to be used or not.

[PandaJJ]

I think an easy solution would be to make it a choice in the challenge to duel screen, where you are choosing the options for the match just add a option for team preview. In any tournament the host can request this to be used or not.

 

I think that's a terrible solution - the more choices you have, the harder it is to find an opponent that wants to play exactly what you want to play. Besides, there has to be made a choice of what should be the standards in officials, and that will be what most people will play. And no, having both in officials is not a good idea - there are already too many gimmicks. Clearly, if team preview is implemented, there should not be an option to turn it off.

[DestructX]

team preview would also make trappers such as dugtrio / magneton less annoying 

[Qaztin]

Good side of this is that u know what exactly ure facing, u got free recon, u know how to swap, u know what u can sacrifice and what to be afraid of.

 

Bad side of this is that u miss element of suprise.

 

I'm upvoting PandaJJ idea, team preview should be not necessary and if it would exist it would need turn off button or diffrent type of duel or divided into 4 types(standart/tournament/standart preview/tournament preview)

[PandaJJ]

I'm upvoting PandaJJ idea, team preview should be not necessary and if it would exist it would need turn off button or diffrent type of duel or divided into 4 types(standart/tournament/standart preview/tournament preview)

 

Not sure if you misinterpreted my comment or I'm misinterpreting yours, but I'm all for team preview, not against it. And I said that if it were to be implemented, having a way to turn it off would be totally stupid, since it will be harder to find opponents that would have the same preference as you when battling.

[SWATURKEY]

The game desperately needs this in my opinion.

[ShucklePwnz]

I support Team Preview mostly because the annoying trappers in OU(Dugtrio and Magneton), in UU(Diglett and Wynaut) and also potential Pursuit trappers.

This would benefit the game nicely and I can't think of a big problem with it.

[Munya]

The thinking ahead part you mention is called a blind prediction, it's not really thinking but playing a guessing game.

 

In the pokemmo meta, big teams scout in tournaments, and a new player would stand no chance against a team that goes scouting him and countering.

 

This is creating an imbalance, and makes trappers problematic and a bit uncompetitive. To have a fair matchup, the best way in my view is to have both teams presented at the beginning of the battle. This way you will know if your opponent is trying to counter team you, and would give everyone a fair chance versus someone who scouted his team.

 

How is team preview going to change anything though in regards to scouting, are you going to be able to switch your team after you view your opponents?  Is it going to stop scouting of prior matches somehow so that people still can't build there teams around there opponents?

[PandaJJ]

How is team preview going to change anything though in regards to scouting, are you going to be able to switch your team after you view your opponents?  Is it going to stop scouting of prior matches somehow so that people still can't build there teams around there opponents?

 

The way you beat somebody if you know exactly what they are using is to bring something that their team is weak to. Generally, good teams can check all top threats, but not necessarily more uncommon pokemon. These uncommon pokemon are often easy to beat, given that you know they're there. While magneton is not exactly an uncommon pokemon, it is an example of a pokemon that is much easier to play around if you know it's there, as opposed to finding it out when your skarmory/forretress is dead. A better example is charizard - it is not used because it is not good enough, but there are a few pokemon it can set up on. If you know that your opponent is bringing a forretress without RS, you can freely switch in and set up a sub on it, and in many cases proceed to sweep. So basically, team preview offers you the chance to outsmart the opponents counter team, unlike now where you have to be really good at guessing.

[Shaniqualela]

The way you beat somebody if you know exactly what they are using is to bring something that their team is weak to. Generally, good teams can check all top threats, but not necessarily more uncommon pokemon. These uncommon pokemon are often easy to beat, given that you know they're there. While magneton is not exactly an uncommon pokemon, it is an example of a pokemon that is much easier to play around if you know it's there, as opposed to finding it out when your skarmory/forretress is dead. A better example is charizard - it is not used because it is not good enough, but there are a few pokemon it can set up on. If you know that your opponent is bringing a forretress without RS, you can freely switch in and set up a sub on it, and in many cases proceed to sweep. So basically, team preview offers you the chance to outsmart the opponents counter team, unlike now where you have to be really good at guessing.lucky

Edited March 9, 2015 by Shaniqualela

[XxRoussxX]

i do agree in one thing.

Team preview would make much more competitive the game.

 

Just because the players can actually outsmart the opponent "More Precisely" instead of "More of a lucky man"

 

At least it should be an option for this, so we could see how good or bad it goes.

[Risadex]

 

You have to keep in mind why Team Preview was added in gen 5. As generations progress, more and more viable pokemon are produced, as well as the massive power creep. Seeing your opponent's team in later gens is a big deal, because it means you can analyze their team and determine what you need to keep to deal with their threats. In Gen 6, you CANNOT afford to try keep a majority of your team alive and healthy, and unless you're running full stall (and sometimes even then), you really can't have a good answer to every threat on a team. So, knowing your opponent's team lets you know what pokemon you cannot afford to lose. Otherwise, it's very easy to lose your answer to something and have a third of your pokemon disappear, especially if your opponent has 2 sweepers with very similar answers.

Of course, the cost of this is that scouting suffers and so does surprise factor, but these later gens have massive movepools. Most top pokemon have no less than 3 distinct sets, even Talonflame, a pretty move barren poke, has like 5 different sets. Because of this, there is still scouting as a component of the game, it's just of something else. Pokemmo doesn't have this, most sets are different by a few moves. There are super versatile pokemon, but they're the exception rather than the rule, and that's on top of our comparatively low amount of viable pokemon and heavily centralized metagame. Most surprise factor in this game comes from the pokemon themselves, as opposed to later gens when it's items and moveset. Team preview would kill most midgame scouting, an important part of the game. Because of this, I really don't think it fits, and team preview would be detrimental.

Tl;dr: pls no

 

agree.

 

in future gens not only have more viable pokemons, and moves, but also a few viable items (hello focus sash)

 

maybe it doesnt work how would be here... bad english stuff

Edited February 17, 2016 by Risadex

[raaidn]

LF poll to be added

[Tyrone]

LF poll to be added

Gotchu fam

[Vaeldras]

The more you know, the more you can put thought into what you do. goes without saying.

kinda rip linoone

[Guest]

I would love to see Team Preview implemented as an option.

 

Maybe there can be checkbox which is checked by default for tournament mode but can be unchecked.

[SirYurop]

Imo promotes skill since u dont do blind predicts... right now we can predict a switch but if team isnt revealed we cant predict the poke..w team preview u can bet to which poke..

imo not necessary but is a step up in the comp scene

[suigin]

God no, that thing basically removes all unexpected sweepers and cheesy picks from the game, it'd make magneton way less useful in trapping Skarm and Foretress. it'd also win games before they even start, oh you know they don't have anything to stop your set up sweeper? You win. You know they don't have anything to break through a certain wall you have?  You can make riskier plays with it and won't be punished for it. It's already a pretty awful thing to have in gen 6 but gen 6 has so many ridiculous things like Manaphy, and so much variety, so so much variety in comparison that not having it would be like playing russian roulette with every move you make.

Here this would pretty much homogenize teams even more, it'd remove the gimmicky mons that work under certain circumstances and keep the safer ones in play as well as making skarm/foretress even safer to use.

 

Adding team preview would kill any single remaining amount of fun and unpredictability this metagame has.

Edited March 11, 2016 by suigin