ZeknShooter

You seem confused about Pokémon roles so I'll explain some of them to you. First of all, Chansey is a wall, not a tank. The difference between both generally comes down to reliable recovery and offensive presence. In Rotom-Wash's case, it's not a wall, but rather a defensive pivot. Unlike pure walls, it can actually come in and grab momentum from your opponent, usually through U-Turn/Volt Switch. And what benefits most from that? Offense. Balance. Not Stall. Another role for Rotom-W is Defogger. I don't think I need to explain this one, or how well Rotom-W performs at it. And then you compare both of them to... Volcarona. I'm not even gonna go there. Also to your last point you mention Nidoqueen but leave out Mamoswine. Yup, offense sucks. Stall king. 

It's very rare to see high usage as an indicator of the strength of a particularly problematic Pokemon. Even some of the most oppressive threats in the game's history have had pretty low usage, the thing about usage is it mostly indicates the splashability of a Pokemon IE in how many teams this Pokemon can function properly. And this segways perfectly into Lucario, Vacuum Wave Lucario is by no means a weak Pokemon, with proper support it's a fairly strong pick, but it's sadly not a very splashable Pokemon, that means you can't just stick it in any team and perform its role consistently every time. A balance team will seldom create a scenario where Lucario can set up and sweep, a mostly stall team with a 6th slot spent on Lucario even less, Lucario feels at home in offensive teams that blow holes and create the offensive pressure needed for everything to be low enough for Lucario to sweep, alternatively it can be used to blow those holes itself so it allows some other Pokemon the opportunity to sweep.
 
Cloyster isn't the issue, defensive pokemon aren't the issue. The problem is King's Rock + Cloyster, specifically the King's Rock component of it, which vastly reduces the reliable counterplay options to it for a very small trade off. It's not an invincible strategy, there is some reliable counterplay, absolutely, in Vacuum Wave Lucario, but that's the only reliable one who doesn't have to fear any flinch roll.
Maybe you can use Inner Focus Bisharp but that Pokemon has to hope to win a 50-50 or two in the worst case with Cloyster right after. EVERYTHING else has a shot at getting flinched to death, no matter how small.
 
Togekiss didn't have the luxury of this, it had a much lower speed tier, was limited to one move which could miss and had no priority, it also heavily depended on its EVs and other moves to beat certain things, otherwise it'd easily lose, Cloyster with King's Rock however is packed tightly into something that can flinch most opposing Pokemon to death if lucky enough after setting up once.
 
There's no secret NU mon that reliably hard counters it, here, check it for yourself, the only Inner Focus Pokemon who both live a 125+ BP multi hit nuke are Lucario and Bisharp, everything else dies. You can't even do something as silly as saying "I'll bring focus sash Throh and keep it at full no matter what until it faces Cloyster" because Cloy uses multi hit moves. No matter what you bring there's always going to be an element of luck involved and given enough luck it can get out of any situation that isn't a Vacuum Wave Lucario, a Pokemon that like previously said only fits in offensive archetypes and isn't exactly the most common thing to stick in them.
 
You saying MAAAAAAN DON'T BE A MACHINE BRO JUST USE LOW USAGE POKEMON BEAT THE SYSTEM BRO USE THE LITTLE GUY isn't a solution, it's you putting yourself on a pedestal for using lower usage Pokemon and being "unique". Being unique sadly doesn't make you special, or useful, or a good player, there's plenty of room for originally with lower usage Pokemon when they work, I've seen great players pull it off and they have my respect.  But in this case you're suggesting there's a "non copypaste" solution to this when in truth there isn't. An Empoleon can get flinched to death, an Infernape could theoretically get flinched to death with enough luck, a Kingdra under rain too, same with a scarf Starmie, all by Ice Shard. It's unlikely, sure, but not impossible, and the problem is the item adding a layer of luck making it frustrating to play against and the tradeoff is just its item slot, which maybe Cloyster would honestly prefer to have occupied by something else, sure, but the problem is this thing shouldn't even exist as a possibility and players shouldn't be forced to either use one Pokemon to avoid a coin toss from a Pokemon that can become so oppressive with just the right turn and set up.
 
This guy is literally educating us on a problem he created in his head and giving us a solution to it. He's condescendingly telling everyone the basics of teambuilding and calling out better players than him while providing nothing substantial of his own. I am honestly surprised the mods let him derail the tread consistently from start to finish with his nonsense.

I won 

I won 

PokeMMO World Cup 4
Group Stages - Week 1

 
The PokeMMO World Cup is a country based tournament hosted by members of the community. It's the 4th instalment of the PokeMMO World Cup.
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#NewWorldCupNewDrama #Week1Hype #RandomHost #WeekendCup #MagoBestRecorder #NoShowdown #SiLc #NoLc #VenezuelaRoyale #WhySoManyCubans #WheresBelgium #BanHaxItems #LibertéEgalitéPenaltyDeMbappe #Carlos #TrapForEndi&Poseidon&Mathew #Everhowis #IamOnceAgainAskingForYourFinancialSupport
 
Rules & Guidelines
Links
Organisation
 
Week 1 Matches
Group A
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Rest of America [4] vs [4] Argentina
OU1: EduLeoRecargado vs Zhiko [Replay]
OU2: Brayanmatows vs azzazz [Replay]
UU1: MomoLaPepa vs IWiriketchup [Replay]
UU2: FeliredVD vs GasaiYunoSan [Replay]
NU1: Takens vs Sejuani [Replay]
NU2: TomaselioMP vs Souu [Replay]
DB: ontaroDT vs DavidAkd [Replay]
LC: SebastianRVM vs Filantropia [Replay]
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Africa [5] vs [3] Cuba
OU1: Jaawax vs Retremos
OU2: Lunarck vs ZeroGamer00
UU1: PoseidonWrath vs Teseliaxd [Replay]
UU2: Havsha vs PelopobreX
NU1: Kanicula vs xMaikelx [Replay]
NU2: Tawla vs criptoDAVID [Replay]
DB: Azphiel vs Lactosoid
LC: TheDh vs Killuacuba [Replay]
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Rest of Asia [5] vs [3] Rest of Europe
OU1: Deploic vs Repposh
OU2: abikbik vs Alitizz
UU1: xMikasaAckerman vs Forfiter [Replay]
UU2: Spxter vs Incognition [Replay]
NU1: SweeTforU vs RAVAEL [Replay]
NU2: HeroGarou vs SlimMatt [Replay]
DB: Kamowanthere vs OrangeManiac
LC: HALOTT vs BartekDolar [Replay]
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Group B
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Venezuela Arepera [7] vs [1] Venezuela Criolla
OU1: EpicVerde vs TTVZeknshooter
OU2: Clayclover vs xSpunk [Replay]
UU1: Wallarro vs AngeloDLZ [Replay]
UU2: CarolML vs TezcatYT
NU1: tMoi vs CristhianArce
NU2: Mansterix vs Bund [Replay]
DB: Gabuchox vs JoseGreg
LC: Paramore vs eljeancha [Replay]
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USA [7] vs [1] Philippines AdoBoiz
OU1: Senjutsuka vs shutomakino [Replay]
OU2: Doublej vs ArvyCVS [Replay]
UU1: xSparkie vs RareBush [Replay]
UU2: Mobuto vs amoncute
NU1: Jossuecr vs raylux
NU2: Ernestocast vs Ooraange
DB: Imabetheverybest vs SWPlayer
LC: Cali vs Taleng
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West Europe [4] vs [4] Brazil
OU1: Stelian vs SHERFIN [Replay]
OU2: Endiii vs Elvessss
UU1: QuinnW vs RafaPallet [Replay]
UU2: Cmawesome vs joaogril
NU1: Dindra vs BielDarkzin [Replay]
NU2: iMat vs Deadwind [Replay]
DB: ThinkNice vs Jhowteon [Replay]
LC: Poufilou vs PedroLindoUnico [Replay]
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Group C
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Germany [0] vs [8] Peru
OU1: CaptnBaklava vs Fibraxxxx
OU2: Pottina vs LeoTsb [Replay]
UU1: RexB vs zAnderson [Replay]
UU2: BlizzardGG vs DarioMG
NU1: xAnzar vs xLuneth [Replay]
NU2: LynxLowMan vs Huargensy
DB: Linken vs lKillua
LC: SteveDerBaum vs Hernjet [Replay]
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Chile [6] vs [2] Madagascar
OU1: Dylanwoodz vs LivaT
OU2: Starkless vs Yushiroi
UU1: Snowot vs Jaoally
UU2: Mendeez vs Loduc
NU1: cjmystogan vs Ayodes [Replay]
NU2: Sebat vs AshHikari
DB: Guillex vs RSHOGUN
LC: WarwitoX vs Toutoun
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Mexico [2] vs [6] Portugal
OU1: Medsmario vs Pachima [Replay]
OU2: Akarukokuyo vs LifeStyle [Replay]
UU1: Shelluny vs DeusBruno
UU2: Sickloonerr vs Razimove
NU1: Mexidany vs xJoseee [Replay]
NU2: Latiosrol vs millernine
DB: Chjul vs Farayyy
LC: Baneadito vs Sintatic
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Group D
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Philippines SiniGang [2] vs [6] Rest of Latam
OU1: kuzeee vs Waaynee [Replay]
OU2: SmurfyyBoyy vs Juanchoqui [Replay]
UU1: IceKob vs Inuyashal
UU2: QueenDinz vs urquidi
NU1: BossJakePH vs Haazuu [Replay]
NU2: GhostWalk vs Cristi [Replay]
DB: SuperiorHolmes vs Santiii [Replay]
LC: iKreedo vs YEYOxD
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Spain [4] vs [4] Korea
OU1: Killuminatis vs MeCyma
OU2: JorgeFirebolt vs leehiii
UU1: JasonSparrowX vs Sionix
UU2: DrTylerGrey vs Gameova
NU1: Axellgor vs Grdzick [Replay]
NU2: ChronoRike vs Yenu
DB: Zigh vs Largeflower
LC: DarkQuiler vs ChillaS
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Colombia [3] vs [5] China
OU1: Brianattackpro vs heichicoda
OU2: AlejovishGB vs Demonsky
UU1: Enchanteur vs sgerard [Replay]
UU2: MegaBladers vs reliefgouai
NU1: JereSteve vs Cogeid
NU2: Edwardinho vs woxiangsinile
DB: IncursioZ vs jjjjhh
LC: xWhinkz vs Queest
─────────
 
Matches can be played from Sunday 4th July 12PM BST until Sunday 11th July 11:59PM BST
 
Movement changes are IN EFFECT this week
 
Donation can be sent to: WorldCupFour
 
Discord: https://discord.gg/8dyQytqNGz
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Let the show commence!
 

Gg!

300k on SlimMatt having positive match ratio at the end of WC. Void if ratio is tied (like 1-1) 

This discussion should have been over a long time ago if we just muted Caio and his ramblings. As much as I'm an advocate of listening to both parties fairly, Caio has made it clear that no matter what the other side says he is not willing to back down. It's pointless to discuss this further as everyone has made their case adequately. Just mute the guy and get this over with. 

Stall is a legitimate strategy. I don't play stall but there's things to stop it if you know what you're doing.

I never did play much pvp, I'll admit. In fact, I'm back after a 14 month break, but pokemon is pokemon. Team theory crafting is a constant and you have to be able to evolve with the meta (assuming nothing is OP hax BS) such as this King's Rock, Quick Claw issue. 

When I still played early last year, those items were banned, as they should be.

How do you deal with stall without those? Simple. There's multiple options:
-Taunt
-Encore
-Set up on them w/ Substitute (sub blocks the dreaded Toxic you're so afraid of)
-Trick a choice item onto them
-Perish Song

Or just simply use a counter to it. Chansey for example, strong fighting types will scare it out. Conkeldurr especially. It can't be Toxic'd it it's running Flame Orb + Guts because it will already be status'd. Breloom, another good one.

If Toxic is a huge issue, run Heal Bell, Aromatherapy, subs, Pokemon that can't be Toxic'd, Safeguard, etc.

There's plenty of options. Form a strategy against a problem. Your team has to be prepared for a variety of opposing strategies, Stall included. Just use your head. Critical thinking...what a concept. 

And lastly, if you have to use RNG hax to win, you're bad.

Edit: Holy fuuuuu someone remind me how to post images lmfao

I won 

Hey :3 Mein Name ist Cashuya und ich liiiiiebe PokeMMO, sowie das ganze Pokémon Franchise. Ich bin eine kleine deutsche Streamerin, die heute ab 18 Uhr das erste mal POKEMMO streamen wird. Wenn ihr magt, könnt ihr ja mal vorbeischauen :) Ich würde mich sehr freuen.
 
Twitch: Cashuya
Instagram: Cashuya
TikTok: Cashuya
Twitter: Cashuya
 

I'm planning on making multiple color schemes
 

Look, if you do not understand with words, I hope that with tests you will do it, here is a replay of a duel of later generations, in case you go out with "the walls this and that" it is a balanced team shooting offense, so you can see that this affects To all types of game, 3 counters that are supposed to weaken it only ended up being dead weight due to an indicated recoil, there the cancer of the item, luck is something that should be avoided as much as possible and that item only promotes it more https://youtube.com/watch?v=-X7mfKBfWag&feature=youtu.be

oh right, I won

I won 

I thought I would not answer you anymore, because you are ridiculous and hard-headed to understand, but since you mentioned me, because you probably ran out of meme answers, yes, I have a 6 walls team that I have not used for months because under pZ, you can check the replays if you are such a fan of me, I play offense in uu. Do you know that pZ nasty knocks down the whole team, right? I myself said in the first comments that I put in this forum that I played every style of game, from offense balanced and stall. Is there a problem? The guy from the SS sent me a message asking me for a team cake, and said he liked it and well played, he knows well that it is a form of play, you can't understand it? Why do you keep making a fool of yourself? Stop comparing an item of luck and that stopping it is not in your hands with something that if you can stop using your head and building well, luck should not be a deciding factor in a competitive game and that is what you want to do, stop crying because you feel bad and they end up wallowing you, you have a brain, use it to differentiate luck and skill in a game (Since you are a fan of mine, I put you ss of my teams that I usually use)

Ok.

I can't believe I need to keep repeating this but some people clearly do not get it.
 
Things do not get banned solely because they are strong. We do not ban "Earthquake" from the game because it is one of the strongest attack in the game, we don't ban status ailments from the game because they have great effect on the battle. Things get banned when they decrease the level of competitiveness of the game. One-hit-KO moves aren't banned because they are overpowered, even with average luck with OHKO moves the lack of momentum you get from doing nothing often outweighs the occasional KO you get from OHKO moves (at a time when you would have done significant damage with your regular moves anyways). OHKO moves are banned because a player with literally no skill involved decided to just hope for luck rather than play positionally, and that is what we aim to encourage in competitive Pokemon. (Same goes to Evasion being banned to a large extent, even though this one is far easier to abuse and set up unstoppable game winning sweeps). The bottom line is that we do not remove things from chronological order that are the strongest, obviously. Things get removed from the game when the autonomy of the players are taken away - meaning that you cannot affect on your faith with the choices you make in the battle and rather are a passenger in RNG dice race. Saying that "paralyze/Serene Grace/Scald is strong" entirely misdirects the conversation because the argument for banning hax items never was that they win more games than they lose - the same way that was never the argument for OHKO moves being banned. The argument was - and forever will be - their uncompetitive nature and the fact you cannot and you shouldn't reasonably prepare for them. Maybe you could try to address this argument for once?
 
Edit: Even Smogon banned King's Rock from BW kek
 

Something being excessively used does not mean it's overpowered ergo it shouldn't be banned. Something should be banned if it's unhealthy for the game or overcentralizing. Stall is neither and it has plenty of counterplay besides requiring hax.
 
Or overwhelm your opponent's walls with either offensive pressure, safe set up options or taunt.
 
Name defensive 3 cores that can wall every wallbreaker and reliably wall everything else.
 
Blatantly false. I know the entire TC more or less changed since I left but I know a good chunk of them don't particularly favor stall and wouldn't allow it to dominate if it became problem. Hell I asked around and apparently stall's dogshit right now.
 
"Just use a single move with shit distribution bro, just get lucky bro. Put the frail offensive mon that doesn't fit on every team on archetype to counter that one particular luck based pest bro it's easy, you have a lot of options"
 
Or be behind screens against a physical matchup that doesn't have a super effective STAB move against it. It can also just get lucky against anything slower.
 
You could have just gotten lucky, hell this is what the whole issue is about :^).
 
Shuckle can have a gogollion defense too, doesn't mean it's particularly good. I know it has been a year since I last played and there have been plenty of meta shake ups but unless SWSH moves gave Chansey some killer utility that it sorely lacked (I'm guessing teleport but even then) or some punch packing move to let it two shot things I assume it's still the bulky abusable set up fodder that was before I quit.

Tbh I've always said that newer players usually gravitate towards either walls or rain for their first comps as they always guaranteed to be effective early comps to make instead of immediately starting out with some meme offensive mon with some tailor made moveset to fit a very specific team. Also lots of newer players think this is like an average rpg and want to have a balanced party with shit like a special wall, a physical wall and a bunch of attackers, resulting in some weird bulky offense.
If novices struggle too much with walls they should look into the many resources for teambuilding in the community instead of flipping a coin and hoping they flinch through it.
 
They should learn how to get good. No game should pander to their weaker, least experienced playerbase as they are likely to jump ship at any time.
 
Also this whole Cloyster vs walls thing is a weird strawman you invented in your head when it can mess with every playstyle including offense. You invented this caricature in your head that any player behind the idea of banning king's rock is an unoriginal stall only player who's seething that their copy paste team got flinched by a Cloyster. It's a distraction you and your buddy pulled out of your butt because people are getting tired of your coin toss strategy and want it gone once and for all.
Also looking at you talk about Jorge's team, you somehow think a team with a few walls in it is inherently a defensive or stall team, that just makes you look like you know nothing about this game and gives you less validation.
 
Rotom is not a wall for the record, a pokemon with defensive investment isn't necessarily a wall.
 
Kyu ban this garbage, rework it into either another item that's already out in newer gens that fixes some issue people find annoying right now, or turn it into a fanfic item with the same purpose. Just get this shit out of the game and stop pissing off the competitive playerbase because you somehow want to stay """""""""""""authentic to the games"""""""""""""" despite all the other fanfic changes made to it already.
 
Talk about creating a problem when it was already solved ages ago, not sure if it was due to some dev's OCD or what but it's an idiotic decision. Remove it.

Seems like they dont even know what hydreigon, togekiss, conkeldurr, haxorus and garchomp are used for.

Can we not make ridiculous statements like "you need Kings Rock Cloyster to break through walls"

bro, you're completely wrong, about everything you said in this topic, keep writing, it doesn't change anything and it will never change anything because you're wrong.

its like, you have a chess table.
90% of people doesn't know how to use the horse (the stall, in this case.)
90% of people loses against a good horse's user (the stall, in this case.)
and 10% of people destroy noobs with the horses.
you see people changing the horses or making rules to not use them? NO. Because its part of the game.
Examples like this I can give you lots of them, you know why ? because there's a lot of games harder to play more than PokeMMO and the meta here, and complaining about stall is at least to me, ridiculous when you got bunch of ways to stop them while being a newbie. Compared to League of Legends! for example this game is nothing difficult.
This topic was created because the items are completely unfair, and for good reason, the tops between tops are losing and winning against this, as you can see in the screenshot that I just gave you because it seems like you don't know much about the current state of the duels in that area, abusing of this item for obvious reasons.
As I said, keep writing.
If you really want to do something make a vote thread so I can go and touch the dislike button and so the community will do the same, because you're wrong.