Rakhmaninov Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) Doubles Teambuilding Frameworks Welcome to the new and updated Doubles Teambuilding Frameworks! This guide aims to suggest common structures to successful teams. The teams listed are from recent tournament finals. Please let me know if you want your team removing or adding. - Disclaimer - As PokeMMO Doubles doesn't have many over-centralising Pokemon, this guide focuses on team archetypes that do have centralising Pokemon at their core, for example weather setters and Trick Room users. Frameworks will tend to over-generalise, so take this guide with a pinch of salt! Please let me know if you have any suggestions or criticisms! I'd love to know if you have had tournament/ladder success with any of these frameworks! Rain @OrangeManiac - CC #222; Doubles Season #3 Finale - East @Imabetheverybest1 - Doubles Season #1 Finale - East @Kamowanthere - Martial Rapidity Corazones - Clash of Supercomputers Paramore - CC #235 1: Pelipper - Often runs tailwind, in case opposing tailwind users try to remove swift swim boosts. Choice Scarf sets are also quite common. 2: Swift Swim - Kingdra and Ludicolo are the usual suspects. Kingdra is more popular here, as it has a high SpA stat, and access to STAB Draco Meteor 3: Electric Type/Swift Swim #2 - Electric types deal with opposing Pelipper and flying types like Togekiss, which can otherwise be a real pain for rain teams without a strong electric STAB. Usually runs Thunder. 4: Steel Type - As rain reduces damage done by fire type moves by 50%, steel types are a staple in most rain teams. 5: Rain Abuser / Filler - The next two slots are really up to you. Aim to round out the team against potential weaknesses, such as Trick Room. OrangeManiac uses Ludicolo as a secondary swift swim user, while Corazones uses Gastrodon to abuse its ability Storm Drain, which gives it a +1 SpA boost every time its partner uses Surf. 6: Filler Sand @HALOTT - CC #237 Fermie - CC #225 @Baneadito - CC #218; Pachanga Said the Changa Javierrrrrr - CC #215 Queest - Did someone say Party? 1: Tyranitar 2: Excadrill 3: Speed Control / Ground Immune - Typically, most sand teams tend to run 2-3 ground immune Pokemon, so that Excadrill can freely spam earthquakes. Crobat and Salamence are excellent partners: Crobat can take out many of the common fighting types that threaten both Tyranitar and Excadrill, and Salamence can also provide a Draco Meteor nuke. Fast tailwind users are the go-to choice here due to the gen 8 speed mechanics, so Javierrrrrr uses Whimsicott for priority Tailwind. Notice that Queest uses a full trick room sand team. 4: Fake Out - 4 out of 5 teams listed use fighting type Pokemon with access to moves like fake out and wide guard to support the team. Fake out allows for easier set ups, and wide guard stops oncoming spread moves such as earthquake and surf, which both threaten Tyranitar and Excadrill. Javierrrr breaks this pattern by using Gyarados, who is immune to Earthquake, and can support the team with access to various defensive options, such as taunt, thunder wave and intimidate. 5: Trick Room Check/Mode - As Tyranitar is able to function in and out of Trick Room, 2 out of 4 teams run an optional Trick Room mode. The other 2 teams use Pokemon which can hit common TR setters like Reuniclus for super effective damage, or stop a Trick Room set up with taunt. 6: Filler - Again, use this slot to cover the team's weaknesses. Bulky water types like Rotom-Wash are especially very popular on sand teams, as they offer some resistance to rain teams. Note that all 4 teams have a ground immunity in this slot. Trick Room @OrangeManiac - CC #231; Did someone say Party? @OrangeManiac - CC #222 @jjjjhh - CC #227 @iamchameleon - CC #228 1: Trick Room Setter - Principally Reuniclus for its commendable power and typing, this first slot should be dedicated to your primary trick room setter. Reuniclus is a great partner for Tyranitar, as it handles the fighting types Tyranitar struggles with 2: Fake Out - This slot is usually occupied by Hariyama, as it also functions well as a trick room sweeper with a powerful STAB in Guts-boosted Close Combat. 3: Weather Setter - I'm only listing teams with a Sand Stream user here, as SunRoom and RainRoom deserve separate archetypes. Gigalith is an interesting choice on iamchameleon's team. It has a lower speed stat than Tyranitar, but sacrifices Dark type STAB. 4: Secondary Trick Room - Chandelure and Porygon2 are the most popular choices here. Chandelure provides fantastic offense, whilst Porygon2 provides fantastic defense, each with unique support options. 5: Support - OrangeManiac uses Salamence as both a fast mode outside of trick room, and as a way to nuke threats to Trick Room set ups with STAB Dragon Gem Draco Meteor. The other two teams listed utilise redirection support, which benefits the whole team. 6: Filler - This should round out the team. Tertiary trick room setters are a good option if you want even more solidarity to a full trick room team. Tailwind MinyHan - Nosy Pig, Best Pig EYL - Doubles Season #3 Finale - West; ShanQi - Nosy Pig, Best Pig @iamchameleon - CC #223 Fermie - CC #223 @PoseidonWrath - CC #233 1: Tailwind Setter - Fast/Priority Tailwind speed boosts apply immediately due to Gen 8 speed mechanics. Crobat is the most common choice here, however, Whimsicott has access to priority Fake Tears, which supports any relevant special attackers on the team 2: Anti-TR Lead - This season has seen the rise of Mienshao+Chandelure leads as a way to counter the common Hariyama+Reuniclus core. As long as it is in play, Imprison Chandelure will stop any Trick Room users from setting up. Chandelure can also hit most of the common Trick Room users for super effective damage, bar Porygon2 3: Anti-TR Lead #2 / Tailwind Sweeper/Setter - Having a powerful fighting STAB as well as access to fake out allows the anti-TR lead to provide an answer to Porygon2, which Chandelure otherwise struggles against. NB - (252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 159-190 (83.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Notice that EYL uses Salamence as a secondary Tailwind Setter. 4: Weather Setter (Anti-Rain) - Usually Tyranitar, this slot ensures that any Swift Swim bonuses are not granted by winning the weather war. Iamchameleon's team has a unique addition in Vanilluxe, which utilises icy wind to further the team's speed advantage. 5: Filler - Most teams listed use a bulky steel type in slot 5: Metagross deals with Trick Room quite well, and can use Explosion to gain momentum over the opponent. Note that Rotom-W completes a Fire-Water-Grass core in Fermie's Team. 6: Filler RainRoom ALLLZ - Season 2 Finale - West LeoTsb - CC #232 @Huargensy - CC #229 @JhowCrazy - duality of three 1: Pelipper - Rain Setter. At 65 speed, it is slow enough to run a Trick Room set. Interestingly, a 0- Spe Pelipper will underspeed a 0- Spe Tyranitar in Trick Room, meaning that it will win the weather war on switch in if Trick Room is set up. 2: Jellicent - Jellicent is the only real reason to run a RainRoom team (no alliteration intended XD). With access to Water Spout, it becomes a powerful offensive threat under Trick Room conditions. It can also be used as a Trick Room setter, with fake out immunity and some item flexibility if a Mental Herb is on the cards. Generally, gem-boosted Water Spout is the best way to go. 3: TR Setter - Porygon2 is the TR setter of choice here. It has great type synergy with Jellicent, as normal/ghost types cancel out each other's weaknesses (bar dark/electric/grass). It has a fantastic movepool (as Porygon is a Gen 1 pokemon), with both offensive and supportive options, as well as incredible bulk. 4: Bulky Steel Type - Metagross is the usual suspect here. Being able to use explosion next to Jellicent with impunity is a fantastic way to set up Trick Room offensively, clearing out any unsuspecting targets. It also handles the fighting types that Porygon2 is weak to. Bronzong is an interesting choice on jhowteon's team, with access to explosion, as well as a vast support movepool, including Trick Room, Ally Switch and Rain Dance to name a few. 5: Fighting Type/Fake Out - There is a surprising amount of continuity in all 4 teams listed as to the next two slots (so far!). All teams employ either fake out or redirection support, and provide fighting/grass type coverage to handle the various Tyranitars and bulky waters that pose a threat to a Jellicent sweep. Hariyama and Conkeldurr are welcome additions to any Trick Room team, providing a guts-boosted close combat for a nuke under Trick Room. Hitmontop is used on LeoTsb/ALLLZ's teams, as it is able to function inside and outside of Trick Room, given that Ludicolo is used for a "fast-mode." 6: Grass Type - Lots of variety here. Ludicolo has access to fake out and swift swim, so it provides a fast mode if the opposing team has good trick room counters. Parasect is an ingenious option on @Huargensy's team, with access to rage powder and dry skin to facilitate a Jellicent sweep. Lastly, Abomasnow on jhowteon's team was probably used as a way to counter @Imabetheverybest1's Garchomp/Rotom-W/Gastrodon core, so it's a specific counter-pick, and shouldn't be considered as a general option. Set up lancyl - Spinning Top; HannzPizarro - CC #262 EYL - CC #264 fengrinrin - CC #261 1: Set Up Sweeper #1 - Poliwrath has recently seen a surge in popularity, thanks to its access to belly drum. With sufficient support, it can sweep through teams with a one-turn set up. Focus energy Kingdra with Sniper is also quite a popular set up sweeper - once it has set up, draco meteor and muddy water will have a 100% critical hit chance, meaning draco meteor's SpA drop no longer applies. 2: Set Up Sweeper #2 - If you choose Poliwrath as a set up sweeper, you'll ideally want something which can handle electric types. Gliscor and Hydreigon both resist electric, and are both excellent set up sweepers in their own right, with swords dance+hyper cutter and nasty plot respectively. Fengrinrin uses lucario as a secondary set up sweeper, as inner focus will prevent its swords dance boost from being taken away. Other notable set up sweepers: Dragonite (dragon dance+inner focus), Volcarona (quiver dance), Scizor (swords dance), Rotom-W (nasty plot) etc... 3: Togekiss - Staple on any set up team, as with blastoise. A huge support movepool, notably follow me, air slash, tailwind, and imprison, which is fantastic for stopping opposing set up teams 4: Blastoise - Access to both fake out and follow me, with great bulk, make Blastoise a fantastic support pokemon. 5-6: Support - The remaining pokemon aim to round out the team's weaknesses. Amoonguss has access to spore, and rage powder, which makes it immune to opposing imprison+follow me strategies. Hitmontop is a very common support pokemon, with access to intimidate, fake out, feint, wide guard, ally switch etc... Electabuzz is an interesting addition to EYL and lancyl's teams - with eviolite it is able to tank the majority of powerful moves in the metagame, and with access to follow me, feint, electroweb and static, makes it a powerful support option which is also resistant to the electric types which threaten togekiss and blastoise. Sample Teams The following teams have been created by using the above frameworks. Please feel free to contribute! Tailwind [Importable] And that's it so far! Please let me know what you think! Future frameworks: SunRoom Edited November 10, 2021 by Rakhmaninov Sample Teams HumongousNoodle, OGRUB, Bestfriends and 23 others 19 5 2 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 Added Tailwind Framework astarmentor 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) Updated OP as of Season #3 Here is a compilation of all tournament finals teams going back to CC 214: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ER3k8HDbE-oheiLh-NLulexDBEUd6wBdopufgyR9ngA/edit?usp=sharing Edited April 1, 2021 by Rakhmaninov Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 Added RainRoom framework Please offer any criticisms you think are necessary :) Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 RainRoom looks pretty sick, pretty interesting that RainRoom teams without a Swift Swim mode have done so well. I always considered the strength of RainRoom to be diverse speed options - can win the game either with Swift Swim boosts or in Trick Room. Surprised only 2/4 had a Ludicolo. Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 Update - Added Sample Teams section 2 hours ago, OrangeManiac said: RainRoom looks pretty sick, pretty interesting that RainRoom teams without a Swift Swim mode have done so well. I always considered the strength of RainRoom to be diverse speed options - can win the game either with Swift Swim boosts or in Trick Room. Surprised only 2/4 had a Ludicolo. Agreed! Link to comment
JhowCrazy Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 I am Jhowteon, thanks for the credits Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 9 hours ago, JhowCrazy said: I am Jhowteon, thanks for the credits Thanks! Please let me know if there's anything you'd like to add/critique about the guide :) Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 One archetype I would consider adding is the so-called "Goodstuffs" team or you can also call them "Counterbox" team. They are teams with no clear pre-determined strategy or theme behind it but rather they are reactive to most common metateams. An example of this I've seen recently is JosueFeng's Doubles team: Arcanine, Gastrodon, Togekiss, Garchomp, Gigalith, Rotom-M. At first look it doesn't have the same kind of hard speed control or a specific theme behind it, but those mons actually pressure many of the common metacores quite nicely. It would be annoying to play rain/sand/trick room against those Pokemon which are the most common Dubs metateams at the moment. So despite not falling to common guidelines, it's a very solid team. Obviously, doing similar role breakdown about those teams is impossible so I guess in that sense they don't fit this guide because you would need to analyze those teams all differently. But maybe just having a collection of generally accepted goodstuffs teams could be an idea to show that you can create good teams despite not falling any of these previously mentioned categories. I've seen some other players build similar teams, such as Chjul or RDL I might check some replays for more examples. Rakhmaninov and SuperiorHolmes 2 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said: One archetype I would consider adding is the so-called "Goodstuffs" team or you can also call them "Counterbox" team. They are teams with no clear pre-determined strategy or theme behind it but rather they are reactive to most common metateams. An example of this I've seen recently is JosueFeng's Doubles team: Arcanine, Gastrodon, Togekiss, Garchomp, Gigalith, Rotom-M. At first look it doesn't have the same kind of hard speed control or a specific theme behind it, but those mons actually pressure many of the common metacores quite nicely. It would be annoying to play rain/sand/trick room against those Pokemon which are the most common Dubs metateams at the moment. So despite not falling to common guidelines, it's a very solid team. Obviously, doing similar role breakdown about those teams is impossible so I guess in that sense they don't fit this guide because you would need to analyze those teams all differently. But maybe just having a collection of generally accepted goodstuffs teams could be an idea to show that you can create good teams despite not falling any of these previously mentioned categories. I've seen some other players build similar teams, such as Chjul or RDL I might check some replays for more examples. I was thinking similarly, but I'm not sure how that would fit into a frameworks article. "Goodstuff" teams may even require their own separate article! As far as I am aware, @JosueFeng has been running that same team for a while, at least since when Garchomp had Swords Dance, so he has had a lot of experience with it! It would be nice to hear his insights on it. In fact, JosueFeng's team corresponds nearly exactly to the Garchomp archetype in my previous article, so I assume it's built around a hone claws set up now that Swords Dance is no longer available, is this correct? I'll have a think what features a team needs, and perhaps include a "general checklist" section. See this guide for what I mean: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-teambuilding-frameworks.3571514/ I'd love to hear your thoughts on what the general requirements are for PokeMMO doubles! :) Edited April 18, 2021 by Rakhmaninov OrangeManiac and CaptnBaklava 2 Link to comment
JosueFeng Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/18/2021 at 4:27 AM, Rakhmaninov said: I was thinking similarly, but I'm not sure how that would fit into a frameworks article. "Goodstuff" teams may even require their own separate article! As far as I am aware, @JosueFeng has been running that same team for a while, at least since when Garchomp had Swords Dance, so he has had a lot of experience with it! It would be nice to hear his insights on it. That's right, my team is a "goodstuff" I try to counter all strategies and strong pokemon without using them. I use the same team since Garchomp came out and it always has rock slide instead of SwD or HoC, because I need another check for volca booster in case gigalith dies. And it is infeasible to build a framework about "goodstuff" because they can take different forms. Thanks for credits. Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 hours ago, JosueFeng said: That's right, my team is a "goodstuff" I try to counter all strategies and strong pokemon without using them. I use the same team since Garchomp came out and it always has rock slide instead of SwD or HoC, because I need another check for volca booster in case gigalith dies. And it is infeasible to build a framework about "goodstuff" because they can take different forms. Thanks for credits. Brilliant, thanks for your feedback! I agree that "goodstuff" shouldn't have its own framework. It may even be worth considering writing a separate "goodstuff" article (or subsection within this article), like this one for VGC 2012: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-2012-goodstuffs-article.3462191/ JosueFeng 1 Link to comment
astarmentor Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 This is extremely useful - I've been trying my own build but it seems too weak still Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted May 27, 2021 Author Share Posted May 27, 2021 5 hours ago, astarmentor said: This is extremely useful - I've been trying my own build but it seems too weak still Glad you find this useful! Feel free to send me your team ideas if you want them critiqued! astarmentor 1 Link to comment
astarmentor Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 5/27/2021 at 3:05 AM, Rakhmaninov said: Glad you find this useful! Feel free to send me your team ideas if you want them critiqued! Okay. Thanks. Here it goes: https://pokepast.es/952aa8a2c2341794 I've experienced a bunch with mixed d-nite, Scizor, Garchomp, and hitmontop. I am familiar with the other builds but I don't want to simply copy them. Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 8 hours ago, astarmentor said: Okay. Thanks. Here it goes: https://pokepast.es/952aa8a2c2341794 I've experienced a bunch with mixed d-nite, Scizor, Garchomp, and hitmontop. I am familiar with the other builds but I don't want to simply copy them. I think the team is generally quite solid, but will need a few tweaks! Close Combat>High Jump Kick on Mienshao. Since most doubles mons have protect, you will likely end up using half of your health every time the opponent blocks your attack. Tailwind>Wide Guard on Pelipper. If your team needs tailwind support for max efficiency, it's better to have 2 setters than 1. Consider your Trick Room matchup. None of the pokemon on your team can OHKO or taunt reuniclus, one of the most common TR setters. Perhaps change Scizor for Metagross* and give Whimsicott Taunt instead of Helping Hand Try some more move options on Kingdra, like Draco Meteor>Dragon Pulse, and muddy water (which bypasses storm drain) over scald. Hurricane is also nice for dealing with opposing rain teams with Ludicolo, which checks gastrodon Focus Sash>Leftovers on Whimsicott - it's very frail! *Metagross is your only crobat check. If you do end up switching it for scizor, you'll need to consider this. Your team will struggle against togekiss/blastoise set up teams, as you have no way of stopping follow me, or dealing significant damage to either of them. This is why an electric type is very useful on a rain team, such as modest Electric Gem Jolteon, or a Rotom form. Look at the structure of teams such as @Lactosoid's Rain team of Pelipper/Ludicolo/Rotom-W/Metagross/Mienshao/Chandelure for inspiration. I hope this helps! nwicakson, astarmentor, CaptnBaklava and 1 other 4 Link to comment
astarmentor Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Rakhmaninov said: I think the team is generally quite solid, but will need a few tweaks! Close Combat>High Jump Kick on Mienshao. Since most doubles mons have protect, you will likely end up using half of your health every time the opponent blocks your attack. Tailwind>Wide Guard on Pelipper. If your team needs tailwind support for max efficiency, it's better to have 2 setters than 1. Consider your Trick Room matchup. None of the pokemon on your team can OHKO or taunt reuniclus, one of the most common TR setters. Perhaps change Scizor for Metagross* and give Whimsicott Taunt instead of Helping Hand Try some more move options on Kingdra, like Draco Meteor>Dragon Pulse, and muddy water (which bypasses storm drain) over scald. Hurricane is also nice for dealing with opposing rain teams with Ludicolo, which checks gastrodon Focus Sash>Leftovers on Whimsicott - it's very frail! *Metagross is your only crobat check. If you do end up switching it for scizor, you'll need to consider this. Your team will struggle against togekiss/blastoise set up teams, as you have no way of stopping follow me, or dealing significant damage to either of them. This is why an electric type is very useful on a rain team, such as modest Electric Gem Jolteon, or a Rotom form. Look at the structure of teams such as @Lactosoid's Rain team of Pelipper/Ludicolo/Rotom-W/Metagross/Mienshao/Chandelure for inspiration. I hope this helps! Thanks :) I'll give it a try. * HJK over CC was just to pick random KOs on pory2. I was on one point considering playing stone edge over rock slide too to pick up salamences. I was quite content with the 1v1 trade off. Mienshao's set is the most challenging to me as it learns so many things. I was also considering wideguard and detect for my kid. * Instead of TW on peli, can it be icy wind for more coverage? *Ye. my only check to crobat+mienshao leads is meta + whim, or meta + kingdra. Other than that I wasn't having too much trouble against TR. I didn't consider encore + taunt on whim. I want also to fit in protect lol. *on the kingdra set - ye, I'll put Draco to improve my mienshao + Crobat match up. But I don't like the fact that I cannot spam the move. the hurricane tech is quite important lol. again, the same problem as with whim. Too many moves to fit in. So I'll try - Draco, muddy, hurri, protect. *and finally. yes. against the classic H.O. I have to play like a god haha. modest jolteon :o. With the Scizor + jolteon consideration the team will morph some sort of orange's team. hahah. *regardless of everything I have to breed a ludi. Thanks for the feedback rakh! Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, astarmentor said: Thanks :) I'll give it a try. * HJK over CC was just to pick random KOs on pory2. I was on one point considering playing stone edge over rock slide too to pick up salamences. I was quite content with the 1v1 trade off. Mienshao's set is the most challenging to me as it learns so many things. I was also considering wideguard and detect for my kid. * Instead of TW on peli, can it be icy wind for more coverage? *Ye. my only check to crobat+mienshao leads is meta + whim, or meta + kingdra. Other than that I wasn't having too much trouble against TR. I didn't consider encore + taunt on whim. I want also to fit in protect lol. *on the kingdra set - ye, I'll put Draco to improve my mienshao + Crobat match up. But I don't like the fact that I cannot spam the move. the hurricane tech is quite important lol. again, the same problem as with whim. Too many moves to fit in. So I'll try - Draco, muddy, hurri, protect. *and finally. yes. against the classic H.O. I have to play like a god haha. modest jolteon :o. With the Scizor + jolteon consideration the team will morph some sort of orange's team. hahah. *regardless of everything I have to breed a ludi. Thanks for the feedback rakh! No problem at all, here to help <3 Just a few more pointers: Have you considered fighting gem mienshao? With Close Combat that would be more consistent against P2! Icy Wind is probably better off on a Choice Scarf Pelipper set, as you get to provide immediate speed control for a slower partner (scarf pelipper outspeeds base 120s). Overall, tailwind with Sash is more consistent - here's a scenario: pelipper+kingdra vs pelipper+kingdra. You icy wind and protect with kingdra; the opponent protects their kingdra and uses tailwind with pelipper. Icy Wind also has a chance to miss too, and only reduces speed by one stage, rather than two. As a side note because we mentioned electric types, I wonder about the viability of Rotom-Mow on rain teams, as most rain teams tend to require electric and grass coverage for gastrodon/rotom/crobat/togekiss/blastoise... Worth a try! Maybe something like this... https://pokepast.es/cfc8c2aa0473238b Edited June 4, 2021 by Rakhmaninov astarmentor and HumongousNoodle 2 Link to comment
astarmentor Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said: No problem at all, here to help <3 Just a few more pointers: Have you considered fighting gem mienshao? With Close Combat that would be more consistent against P2! Icy Wind is probably better off on a Choice Scarf Pelipper set, as you get to provide immediate speed control for a slower partner (scarf pelipper outspeeds base 120s). Overall, tailwind with Sash is more consistent - here's a scenario: pelipper+kingdra vs pelipper+kingdra. You icy wind and protect with kingdra; the opponent protects their kingdra and uses tailwind with pelipper. Icy Wind also has a chance to miss too, and only reduces speed by one stage, rather than two. As a side note because we mentioned electric types, I wonder about the viability of Rotom-Mow on rain teams, as most rain teams tend to require electric and grass coverage for gastrodon/rotom/crobat/togekiss/blastoise... Worth a try! Maybe something like this... https://pokepast.es/cfc8c2aa0473238b Too much sauce. I'll get back to you asp. Again, thanks. Didn't consider tailoring kingdra's speed as it revenge kills opposing kingdras and so on lol. I have everything on that poke paste. I'll give it a spin. Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 Added set up framework OrangeManiac, JeanMarc, BrokenJoker and 1 other 4 Link to comment
JeanMarc Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Thank you very much for this guide! As someone who's just started playing seriously, seeing common archetypes compiled here has been a huge help to get started with teambuilding. Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 11 hours ago, JeanMarc said: Thank you very much for this guide! As someone who's just started playing seriously, seeing common archetypes compiled here has been a huge help to get started with teambuilding. My pleasure. If you need any advice on teambuilding for doubles, please feel free to send me a message and I'll do my best to offer critique :)) JeanMarc and Quinn010 2 Link to comment
OGRUB Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Hello, I have a question, I would like to know what are the roles that are usually presented in a team for doubles. Rakhmaninov 1 Link to comment
Rakhmaninov Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 On 11/12/2021 at 4:31 AM, OGRUB said: Hello, I have a question, I would like to know what are the roles that are usually presented in a team for doubles. Hi! I hope my guide does a good enough job of distilling some common roles for doubles teambuilding - on top of this guide, have a think about whether your team has enough ways to deal with every common pokemon on the viability rankings: You'll also want to ask yourself whether your team has enough ways to deal with all of the frameworks listed in this article, too. So, rain, trick room, set up and tailwind counters most likely. Suggestions Rain counter: something that can change the weather to something that isn't rain, like tyranitar, gigalith or abomasnow Trick Room counter: something that can operate in trick room, or stop it from being set up and can OHKO reuniclus and porygon2, such as scizor, crobat (taunt), mienshao, tyranitar etc... Set Up: spread moves, imprison+follow me, taunt, fake out, counters to togekiss, blastoise and electabuzz etc Tailwind: your own tailwind user, or a trick room mode OGRUB and SrRodriguez 1 1 Link to comment
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