Items to improve the Doubles metagame

[OrangeManiac]

We already had a good discussion opener in Doubles Tier Discussion request about Safety Goggles, an item that could potentially improve the metagame and playing experience of Doubles. That made me think which other items have we got past Gen 5 that arguably could improve the metagame. I'm keeping my post focused on Doubles because that's what I'm mostly experienced with and I don't want the discussion to go all kinds of different directions if we were to discuss singles as well. To be fair, I think Singles deserves its own discussion thread as well, although the obvious problem is that do we want to open that can of worms and possibly mix up the tiers with upcoming items.

 

Firstly, the devs have shown they are willing to do quite big shakes to the game with the likes of Assault Gear (Assault Vest in core games) to be introduced to the game. From my experience, Assault Gear in PokeMMO has mostly been a positive addition. Because devs have shown willingness to add new items to the game from post Gen 5 generations, I'll do my best to explain which items deserve a spot in the game in my opinion from Doubles perspective.

 

I grouped these items based on the utility and potential risk. Keep in mind, these are only my opinion. Feel free to comment with your thoughts.

 

 

Group 1 - Definitely good for the game

 

 

Clear Amulet (please give us this)

 

I would argue Clear Amulet would improve the Doubles metagame the most. Clear Amulet basically is the ability "Clear Body" in Item form. I'd argue the current Doubles metagame is heavily Intimidate focused. It might not feel that way because so many top tier physical attackers are completely immune to Intimidate (Clear Body Metagross, Inner Focus Crobat, Inner Focus Mienshao) or are using Swords Dance just to ignore Intimidates (Swords Dance Scizor, Swords Dance Excadrill). However, my argument that the reason these Pokemon are used is because they get hindered by Intimidate the least. Adding Clear Amulet allows physical attackers that otherwise would be heavily hindered by Intimidate to have some potential usefulness and not get pushed aside in teambuilding just because there are alternatives for physical attackers that do not care about Intimidate.

 

The only downside I see is that it makes Tyranitar arguably even better as Tyranitar could also carry Clear Amulet and not get countered by Hitmontop as heavily anymore. But on the reverse, giving up your Chople berry allows Tyranitar to be far more reliably to be KO'd by Hitmontop instead. Furthermore, I'd argue that Tyranitar itself is not broken but it's a one Pokemon solution for balanced teams to have a better matchup against all kinds of weather.

 

 

Room Service

 

Room Service gives -1 speed to holder when Trick Room goes up and its on the field. Excellent item to allow more Pokemon to shine in Trick Room archetypes. It's very common to have a Pokemon that could potentially do well in Trick Room but it's just awkwardly fast and not being viable for that reason alone. Having Room Service allows more middle speed to slightly above average speed Pokemon to do well in a team that has a Trick Room mode. Also I think this can be a useful tech to allow teams to have far better diversity in countering opposing Trick Room teams than what we have now.

 

 

Safety Goggles

 

Necas already made a post about it in Doubles Tier Discussion Request thread.

 

 

 

Group 2 - Probably good for the game but there might be concerns

 

 

Loaded Dice

 

Giving more love to multi-hit moves to me is a good idea. Loaded Dice may allow multi-hits to become very powerful with guaranteed 4-5 hits but while doing so the Pokemon is giving up its item slot for "something better". Also, because of giving up the item slot you can't get the maximum hits and still get Choice Band / Life Orb boost I don't really see this item pushing the damage calculations out of hand with anything. This prevents multi-hits from becoming too powerful in my opinion but I understand if this shakes up Singles tier too much in some regard for someone to object this. Overall, I think it's good though and gives more opportunity to plan out your moves. Also what I love about Loaded Dice is that it prevents Focus Sash Pokemon to be 100% safe (because Sash is a dumb item to begin with but that's another conversation).

 

Eject pack

 

Eject Pack allows a Pokemon to switch out after getting a stat drop. Very niche in my opinion as usually there are better options but it allows some creative strategies in my opinion, none of which intuitively seem too strong to me.

 

 

Group 3 - Could be fun but potentially cheesy without open team sheet

 

Covert Cloak

 

Covert Cloak gives a Pokemon a protection from secondary effects of an attack. In Doubles, this is mostly used to prevent a Pokemon from being Faked Out. In VGC, I feel like this item has improved both playing and teambuilding experience. You don't have to use Protect just for Fake Out protection and you can use all 4 moves for something useful and just slap Covert Cloak to prevent from being Faked Out. The only issue I see is that in Gen 9 VGC we have open team sheet (meaning you can see opponent's all moves and its held item), so opponent always knows when they can or cannot Fake Out the opponent. Unknowingly not getting a Fake Out flinch because of Covert Cloak might feel unjust and a little bit cheesy when you don't know it's there. In my opinion, a move like Fake Out being good is crucial to Doubles metagame so I could see the argument that Fake Out losing its guaranteed flinch could be bad for the concept of Doubles.

 

 

Mirror Herb

 

Mirror Herb allows Pokemon to copy the stat boosts its opponent got. While it forces opponents to think twice before mindlessly setting up, I could also seeing this item being slightly cheesy. Setting up can be the appropriate play in many cases and getting reverse set up might feel like a skilless counterstrategy.

 

____

 

Last remarks: I didn't discuss about Heavy-Duty Boots because in singles it could be an absolute game and tier changer while providing very little use in Doubles. Anyway, here's my suggestions - I think Doubles probably needs some mix-up as to me the metagame is becoming extremely stale and almost resolved at this point. These item suggestions (especially Clear Amulet and Room Service) allows players to think much more outside the current box. Obviously, you already could use less used options in Doubles but my issue is that people often are significantly hurting their winrate by using more unorthodoxed Pokemon because of the aforementioned downsides of using a Pokemon that isn't i.e. protected by Intimidate. Anyways, feel free to voice your thoughts.

 

[Sargeste]

Specifically for Covert Cloak, the message that plays when a mon is sent out holding a King's Rock/Focus Band ("x flashed it's KR/FB!") would probably solve the no open sheet problem.

[OrangeManiac]

21 minutes ago, Sargeste said:

Specifically for Covert Cloak, the message that plays when a mon is sent out holding a King's Rock/Focus Band ("x flashed it's KR/FB!") would probably solve the no open sheet problem.

That could be a solution. In an environment when opponent is aware of Covert Cloak, I think the existence of this item has improved the competitive play a lot in VGC.

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

Loaded Dice

 

Giving more love to multi-hit moves to me is a good idea. Loaded Dice may allow multi-hits to become very powerful with guaranteed 4-5 hits but while doing so the Pokemon is giving up its item slot for "something better". Also, because of giving up the item slot you can't get the maximum hits and still get Choice Band / Life Orb boost I don't really see this item pushing the damage calculations out of hand with anything. This prevents multi-hits from becoming too powerful in my opinion but I understand if this shakes up Singles tier too much in some regard for someone to object this. Overall, I think it's good though and gives more opportunity to plan out your moves. Also what I love about Loaded Dice is that it prevents Focus Sash Pokemon to be 100% safe (because Sash is a dumb item to begin with but that's another conversation).

Ik this is a bit off-topic, but Cinccino on Never Used would love this item. Using Technician + Loaded Dice is almost same effect as choice band skill link, you sacrifice a small average power. But in exchange, you'll avoid a Choice lock. So you can't switch comfortably with a mon that resists bullet seed like altaria and think you'll be fine, currently if he uses this you can on the next move switch out sefety. With this item, you has to watch out for the Rock Blast and Tail Slap. Also, it allows that if you enter with some kind of counter for Cinccino like Steelix, instead of switching directly you can use U-turn and enter with something to broke both legs of a stellix user(not literally, just to meant that the Steelix would be easily gone if something doesn't get done.), or whatever switch-in if your opponent attempt to predict.

I don't think that will have too much use this item on Doubles, because it are pretty rare a user with multi-hit moves there. But for singles, if a mon can swap skill link for technician it will use this item.

Edited August 6, 2023 by caioxlive13

[RysPicz]

i would like to add group 5 to your post:

 

 

Group 5- please don't break our game

 

Heavy-Duty boots.

[caioxlive13]

16 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

i would like to add group 5 to your post:

 

 

Group 5- please don't break our game

 

Heavy-Duty boots.

HDB has no potential to break doubles. Singles is a whole different history and has a different thread for it.

[razimove]

My main concern is that we cant look at a single tier or format when adding items, safety googles would be pretty good in singles for shedinja stall I feel aswell as helping doubles, id like to see it implemented, and im not too sure on how strong mirror herb is (although im not sure on how this one works and im assuming it always triggers if you switch on a boosted opponent).

 

Clear amulet to me sounds like the perfect doubles item and would likely change the meta.

 

Loaded dice, sounds alright, although it sounds niche to the point I wouldnt know when id pick that over 20% item/LO on a lot of multi hit mons, dont think this would harm our metagame at all and would add to more item variety.

 

Room service also seems like the perfect doubles item for some pokemons.

[Rakhmaninov]

Adrenaline Orb might also be a good idea if intimidate is such a big threat in doubles, and would cause a more minor shift in the metagame than clear amulet. Competitive Milotic would definitely be a popular user

Edited August 7, 2023 by Rakhmaninov

[caioxlive13]

12 hours ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Adrenaline Orb might also be a good idea if intimidate is such a big threat in doubles, and would cause a more minor shift in the metagame than clear amulet. Competitive Milotic would definitely be a popular user

Clean Amulet is seen as better due to other small moves like icy wind and Struggle Bug(the second is not too common but sometimes appear on volcarona sets).
Adrenaline orb is not bad tbh, it allows some special mons to bait intimidate users and make them on a worse position. You've mentioned Competitive Milotic because it instantly get +2 Sp. Atk and +2 Speed, but i don't see a reason for NP washtom not use the item as well, to predict a switch in and purposely take the intimidate.

Edited August 7, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Rakhmaninov]

Looking forward to seeing Garchomp make a come back if clear amulet is implemented. Give it substitute to prevent it from being burned, and you've got a very powerful Pokémon. Tyranitar/scizor/garchomp cores would be very powerful!

[OrangeManiac]

1 hour ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Looking forward to seeing Garchomp make a come back if clear amulet is implemented. Give it substitute to prevent it from being burned, and you've got a very powerful Pokémon. Tyranitar/scizor/garchomp cores would be very powerful!

Yeah Garchomp would heavily improve in viability but in all honesty I think it was like A- Pokemon without Clear Amulet and goes to like A+ with Clear Amulet. Countering Follow Me supported Chomp will rely a lot on Icy Wind.