[NU Discussion] Venomoth

[DoubleJ]

  

 

What is this?

 

This is a discussion thread for the community to share their opinion of Venomoth's presence in the PokeMMO NeverUsed tier. Comments and opinions will be reviewed by the Tier Council as they assess whether they should proceed with a standard ban, or even a quick ban, to remove Medicham.

 

What to know?

 

Venomoth is an outstanding set-up sweeper and is readily at the top of the food chain in the NU tier. It's only real checks are Gigalith and Golbat, which are fortunately in the tier at the moment. Everything else is set-up bait or fodder. With Tinted Lens it only needs Bug Buzz to hit everything (except Golbat) for at least neutral damage, opening up its movepool to wreak havoc with any combination of incredible support moves. One Quiver Dance lets it outspeed the entire tier, as the Ninjask now moves up to UU and the tier really lacks a quality Choice Scarf user (Tauros?!). After setting up, you better be carrying priority, or hope it's not behind a Substitute and ready to either Disable or Sleep your check. Fortunately, Golbat carries Infiltrator to get through the sub and Gigalith can Rock Blast right on through (fear the Psychic or Giga Drain coverage sets).

 

Noteworthy Sets?

 

Quiver Dance to the Beat (Life Orb or Black Sludge)

- Quiver Dance

- Bug Buzz

- Substitute/Psychic/Giga Drain

- Sleep Powder/Disable

 

Noteworthy Calcs?

 

It's an offensive juggernaut and beyond Gigalith and Golbat, there isn't much that can stand up to it. The real money is in what Pokemon can actually stop it after setting up. See below.

 

Spoiler

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 66-78 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 73-88 (38 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Gigalith Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 168-204 (115.8 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 133-159 (73 - 87.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Golbat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 170-204 (117.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 94-110 (48.9 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Eelektross Flamethrower vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Venomoth: 82-98 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 94-112 (64.8 - 77.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 126-149 (86.8 - 102.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth on a critical hit: 177-211 (122 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 118-140 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

 

Please discuss.

[AwaXGoku]

We already know what Venomoth is able to do last time we tested it and NU didnt gain anything more to deal with it. Nu even lost some things that might be able to deal with it in some case.

Venomoth is , in my opinion again, not healthy for the tier. His only check that might be able to deal with almost all his set is gigalith, a mon that can heal only with rest, when other check like golbat are getting destroy by some coverage move (psychic in this case). Like mentioned in the main post, NU doesnt have the possibility to outspeed Venomoth when he started setting up and you just need to figure what set he is running to deal with it correctly and like i said previously, if you dont run gigalith you might lose to some specific set.

My final opinion is to not letting drop Venomoth and go for a quickban. 

[pachima]

3 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

  

 

What is this?

 

This is a discussion thread for the community to share their opinion of Venomoth's presence in the PokeMMO NeverUsed tier. Comments and opinions will be reviewed by the Tier Council as they assess whether they should proceed with a standard ban, or even a quick ban, to remove Medicham.

 

What to know?

 

Venomoth is an outstanding set-up sweeper and is readily at the top of the food chain in the NU tier. It's only real checks are Gigalith and Golbat, which are fortunately in the tier at the moment. Everything else is set-up bait or fodder. With Tinted Lens it only needs Bug Buzz to hit everything (except Golbat) for at least neutral damage, opening up its movepool to wreak havoc with any combination of incredible support moves. One Quiver Dance lets it outspeed the entire tier, as the Ninjask now moves up to UU and the tier really lacks a quality Choice Scarf user (Tauros?!). After setting up, you better be carrying priority, or hope it's not behind a Substitute and ready to either Disable or Sleep your check. Fortunately, Golbat carries Infiltrator to get through the sub and Gigalith can Rock Blast right on through (fear the Psychic or Giga Drain coverage sets).

 

Noteworthy Sets?

 

Quiver Dance to the Beat (Life Orb or Black Sludge)

- Quiver Dance

- Bug Buzz

- Substitute/Psychic/Giga Drain

- Sleep Powder/Disable

 

Noteworthy Calcs?

 

It's an offensive juggernaut and beyond Gigalith and Golbat, there isn't much that can stand up to it. The real money is in what Pokemon can actually stop it after setting up. See below.

 

  Hide contents

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 66-78 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 73-88 (38 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Gigalith Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 168-204 (115.8 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 133-159 (73 - 87.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Golbat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 170-204 (117.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 94-110 (48.9 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Eelektross Flamethrower vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Venomoth: 82-98 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 94-112 (64.8 - 77.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 126-149 (86.8 - 102.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth on a critical hit: 177-211 (122 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 118-140 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

 

Please discuss.

Worth noting that with Blaziken gone, Venomoth has an easier time playing Modest, which grants it much better odds fs those walls. (Depending how people play medicham IF it is dropped)

[DoubleJ]

19 minutes ago, pachima said:

Worth noting that with Blaziken gone, Venomoth has an easier time playing Modest, which grants it much better odds fs those walls. (Depending how people play medicham IF it is dropped)

Very true. No good Scarf users in NU is a problem! Unfeazant when?!

[DoubleJ]

A Quick Ban vote has been initiated. As a reminder, there needs to be a unanimous vote to quick ban a Pokemon per TC Policy. If there is not a unanimous vote, then this Pokemon will be added to the tier and we will reassess for a standard ban which requires at least 1 week evaluation and a 2/3 majority vote to pass.

[DoubleJ]

This Quick Ban vote has come to a conclusion. In a unanimous 5-0 decision by the Tier Council, Venomoth has been quick banned from the NU tier and will be added to the BL2 list. 

 

@Munya you may now close this thread, ty.