[Implemented] Gen 4 Pokemon, Moves, and Mechanics

[Barrage]

Hello friends,

 

I realize this is not so much a readily implemented suggestion, and more of a "food for thought" sort of thread, and hopefully I can sway some opinions.

 

Currently, I know nothing of plans of upgrading to gen 4 mechanics from the staff. As a competitive player, I think ADV OU (the completed gen 3 meta) is extremely dry and terrible, and there are somewhat limited options for teambuilding. While in PokeMMO we will never have a truly complete ADV OU and we will make our own tiers to try to improve the metagame, as we have been doing, I still think generation 4 mechanics are far superior.

 

The famous physical special split brought with it many new Pokemon, abilities, higher base power moves across types that needed it, and moves like stealth rocks and u-turn, which are staples of offensive play. Nay, offensive play is possible because of stealth rocks and u-turn, which discourage switching and help maintain momentum. The physical/special split itself allowed Pokemon to take better advantage of their stats, and gave many Pokemon better wall-breaking potential, as they were able to abuse mixed offensive STABs that they could not previously.

 

These things don't exist in the generation 3 meta, and to be honest, I think continuing development in light of the gen 3 meta is the equivalent of hitting a wall (hah! punny).

 

Wish is also prevalent in generation 3, and the mechanics were adjusted in gen 4 to decrease its usefulness. You cannot send out a Pokemon to die so that another will receive the wish free of harm. If your Pokemon dies on the turn following the use of wish, that Pokemon will perish.

 

Also, taunt mechanics in generation 4 are a little bit silly (unpredictable, and can go for far too long), but even then they are an improvement from gen 3. I know there has been some talk about changing taunt mechanics in PokeMMO but that was some time ago, and I haven't heard mention of it again.

 

Anyways, I'm just here plugging how much better generation 4 is as a metagame, and I think it is probably the most balanced except for gen 6 (oh god the nightmare that was gen 5... I cry at night). I think there is a future in the gen 4 metagame, and the gen 3 meta kind of sucks. That's basically it in a nutshell.

 

Keep in mind that I am absolutely NOT suggesting that the physical/special split be introduced in PokeMMO without everything else that came with it in gen 4 -- Pokemon, moves, etc. The physical/special split would not work in gen 3 because there aren't enough moves to compensate, and there would be a huge imbalance in some Pokemon. Gamefreak did a very nice job of making this transition in mechanics, in my opinion.

 

Just something to think about. I hope what I have said plants the seed of thought in the devs, because I personally would like to see these things, and I think it's a pretty important thing. Why waste time on something that is inferior when you could be dropping that and moving on to something better right away?

 

Edit: This post is kind of vague, so if any devs (Kyu, lookin' at you) have questions, I would probably have an easier time clarifying benefits when addressed with specific questions.

 

Edit2: CLARIFICATION. This is not a wall QQ thread. If you play properly, you can handle walls. But they're still boring and pretty dominant in gen 3, and most of all they do not promote diversity. Gen 4 brings about the potential for diversity, which is way more fun and interesting in my opinion. Some may argue that "stealth rocks make so many Pokemon not viable though!" Well, that would be correct. But I'll take what I can get.

[Gilan]

Anything post-gen three got wierd in my opinion, maybe it's because I grew up on Gen 3 and didn't play Gen 4+ till well after.

In my opinion, I would rather see the implementation of the rest of gen 3 and custom regions and Pokemon unique to PokeMMO, rather than copying exactly what Gamefreak did... I want something new and different, not a repeat of what I did a couple of years ago, to be honest.

[Eggplant]

tldr;

gen 3 meta is bad

implement physical/special split

but you can't implement physical/special split alone or it'll bad

so just implement all of gen 4 at the same time

 

but yeah definitely need to do something about the wall metagame because they're frustrating

I have 6 sweepers on my team for this reason

[axx]

why not gen 6?

[spoiler]

In a more serious note, I was just thinking about this a couple hors ago after DS posted something in the breeding nerf suggestion. I wonder if the devs plan is stone set to finish gen3 and done or future gens are up to discussion.

[/spoiler]

[Barrage]

Anything post-gen three got wierd in my opinion, maybe it's because I grew up on Gen 3 and didn't play Gen 4+ till well after.

In my opinion, I would rather see the implementation of the rest of gen 3 and custom regions and Pokemon unique to PokeMMO, rather than copying exactly what Gamefreak did... I want something new and different, not a repeat of what I did a couple of years ago, to be honest.

It isn't really about "copying what Gamefreak did". I'm not even suggesting we get sinnoh right away -- maybe we could get some gen 4 Pokemon and a mechanics overhaul with the custom region. Wouldn't that achieve what you are saying?

 

I understand some people are nostalgic about gen 3, but that I think it is somewhat silly to refrain from progressing for that reason. I'm sure you could learn to love the gen 4 Pokemon just as much as the previous ones.

[Telf]

i like gen 3 a lot and i think they should keep it gen 3 and plus most of the comps would be useless if we did the spit all HP for physical users would be gone, Shadow ball for all physical users would be gone, ele punch zam and other things would be pointless i think they should finish gen 3 and the plans they have for it ahead b4 we get into gen 4

[Barrage]

i like gen 3 a lot and i think they should keep it gen 3 and plus most of the comps would be useless if we did the spit all HP for physical users would be gone, Shadow ball for all physical users would be gone, ele punch zam and other things would be pointless i think they should finish gen 3 and the plans they have for it ahead b4 we get into gen 4

This is where I give the "the game is in alpha phase" rebuttal, and I actually think it applies here, for once. You'll always have to make some new Pokemon, and it's not even much of a grind currently. Plus, you'd wanna get TONS of the new Pokemon in gen 4 anyways, so you wouldn't be losing too much.

[Kyu]

k.

 

ETA: 2020

[Gilan]

It isn't really about "copying what Gamefreak did". I'm not even suggesting we get sinnoh right away -- maybe we could get some gen 4 Pokemon and a mechanics overhaul with the custom region. Wouldn't that achieve what you are saying?

 

I understand some people are nostalgic about gen 3, but that I think it is somewhat silly to refrain from progressing for that reason. I'm sure you could learn to love the gen 4 Pokemon just as much as the previous ones.

 

No, you missed the message of my post. I said that I would like PokeMMO to finish off the "base" of their game (pretty much the entirety of Generation 3) and then start making new and unique things. I don't think this game should attempt to copy the meta's that Gamefreak had made.

 

 

This is where I give the "the game is in alpha phase" rebuttal, and I actually think it applies here, for once. You'll always have to make some new Pokemon, and it's not even much of a grind currently. Plus, you'd wanna get TONS of the new Pokemon in gen 4 anyways, so you wouldn't be losing too much.

OK, I see alpha phase as setting the base of PokeMMO, I think that after alpha phase they should divert from Gamefreak's lineage.

 

I'd rather have Pokemon made by the developers of PokeMMO (such as the "create a pokemon" thread in comp alley. I really hope something is produced from that) than Gen 4+ pokemon.

[Winterbrah]

Gen4 meta is pretty balanced and fun (10x better than Gen3 imo) but dont expect it any time soon

[Darkshade]

I'd rather have Pokemon made by the developers of PokeMMO (such as the "create a pokemon" thread in comp alley. I really hope something is produced from that) than Gen 4+ pokemon.

 

If you're referring to fakemon, they aren't on the agenda.

[iSmashbro]

I support the suggestion of implementing generation 4 entirely, but I strongly believe implementing it at this point in the game's life would be a bad idea.

 

I agree with Telf in the fact that they should finish recreating generation 3 and get their bearings as to what direction they want the game to go in. The switch should be a lot more gradual than just dumping 93 Pokémon, a physical/special split, every generation 4 move/tm/ability, and move mechanics into an incomplete game with an entire 1 (Hopefully 2 soon™) region. The physical/special split alone is going to turn 60% of people's comps useless, flip the metagame on it's side, and put the trade market in an uproar that will take months to recover from, but generation 4 everything would be an completely unnecessary mindfuck to every MMO aspect to the game that could take up to a year to stabilize.

[Barrage]

k.

 

ETA: 2020

S-senpai noticed me! (but he doesn't give a fk it seems)

[Alphatron]

k.

 

ETA: 2020

 

Confirmed.

 

seriously though, this is an excellent Idea. continuing the implementation of gen 3 is obsolete. Its been proven a poor, unbalanced mechanic and has made for a mediocre competitive scene at best. I agree that it might be time to start jumping ship on the gen 3 mechanics especially when there are already moves and ability's running on other mechanics due to how poor the gen 3 mechanic for them are. 

[Rigamorty]

tl;dr

 

but if it involves Weavile I want it.

[Gilan]

If you're referring to fakemon, they aren't on the agenda.

More along the lines that I would consider Fakemons over gen 4. i.e. I really hope gen 4 doesn't get implemented.

Though I'm not consistent in the fact that I would appreciate 1 fakemon that would distinguish PokeMMO and change the meta into something that hasn't been seen before.

As to what's on the agenda. It doesn't really matter what is planned, because, as kyu said, the implementation of something like gen 4 is way to far in the future to even have a serious useful conversation about it right now.

[Senile]

More along the lines that I would consider Fakemons over gen 4. i.e. I really hope gen 4 doesn't get implemented.

Though I'm not consistent in the fact that I would appreciate 1 fakemon that would distinguish PokeMMO and change the meta into something that hasn't been seen before.

As to what's on the agenda. It doesn't really matter what is planned, because, as kyu said, the implementation of something like gen 4 is way to far in the future to even have a serious useful conversation about it right now.

Can't tell if srs, but in regards to say "it doesn't really matter what's planned", let me make this abundantly clear; Do not expect fakemon literally ever. You will be, 100% guaranteed, disappointed.

[Gilan]

Can't tell if srs, but in regards to say "it doesn't really matter what's planned", let me make this abundantly clear; Do not expect fakemon literally ever. You will be, 100% guaranteed, disappointed.

100% not serious.

edit: well the only thing that I am actually serious about is my hate for gen 4+

[ThinkNice]

Gen 4 mechanics and with that comp play are literally 10x better than what we have now. It would be a lot of work rewriting all those moves, but there is actually no point in finishing something that is way less superior. There are like 12 viable OU pokes in a 'completed' meta in gen3. In gen4 this easily exceeds double that amount. It also increases the skill cap for comp players IMO.

But yeah that being said I dont think itll happen. It's been proven a few times that devs can be extremely stubborn. ETA: 2020 maybe if you switched to gen4 this game would actually last for that long, keep gen3 and the comp scene will stay dead.

Edit: gilan you cant hate gen4 if you never played it

[Plague]

If Gen 4 gets implemented slip me a note ahead of time so I can sell Guilezard

 

[spoiler]I never actually played Gen 4 competitively but I imagine it's a slightly less hyper-offensive Gen 5[/spoiler]

[YagamiNoir]

If Gen 4 gets implemented slip me a note ahead of time so I can sell Guilezard

 

[spoiler]I never actually played Gen 4 competitively but I imagine it's a slightly less hyper-offensive Gen 5[/spoiler]

Not really, because it's without Team Preview, U-Turn, Stealth Rock leads and a few other things were much more potent. Things like Ambipom and Aerodactyl got nerfed as a dedicated lead simply because of TP.

[DoubleJ]

Yes, Gen 3 meta sucks. We get it. Update now please?

[Plague]

Not really, because it's without Team Preview, U-Turn, Stealth Rock leads and a few other things were much more potent. Things like Ambipom and Aerodactyl got nerfed as a dedicated lead simply because of TP.

 

I can see that, but Gen 4 didn't have shit like Terrakion/Conkeldurr/Ponyfucker/Chandelure/Hydreigon/etc. I'm not saying Gen 4 wasn't super offensive, but the Gen 5 Power Creep was crazy. "Here, everything gets base 120+ offenses!"

 

I mean Azelf was like the most consistently used Pokemon from what I've seen because of that, the 125/125/115. But that became almost the norm in 5th gen, even on bulkier overally stronger Pokemon, and even insane shit like Azelf fell to UU.

[ArmisticeAcropolis]

Azelf I remember being one of the most popular leads in gen 4

 

Rocks, get off a couple psychics until your health is low, then suicide Explosion their asses

[Barrage]

Not really, because it's without Team Preview, U-Turn, Stealth Rock leads and a few other things were much more potent. Things like Ambipom and Aerodactyl got nerfed as a dedicated lead simply because of TP.

I actually like gen 4 for this reason. I dislike team preview, and the gen 4 meta is slow enough to allow for team preview to not be in the game. Gen 4 is a pretty good balance of power with offensive/defensive play and game pace.