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OU Viability Thread

ThinkNice

By ThinkNice
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codylramey

codylramey

Posted
Posted

flygon for A rank because it has good dual STAB moves, good speed tier and was only ranked B+ since dragonite was still here.

I agree, Flygon can put A LOT of pressure on a team. Especially after anyhting not touching the ground has been killed. And i believe that the DDance set isnt utalized as much as it could be.

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Shaniqualela
Shaniqualela

Flygon doesn't get dragon dance so that's probably why it isn't common lol

ThinkNice
ThinkNice

Can you stop spewing bullshit in every thread you go in? No seriously, everyone is sicking tired of your arguments that easily get deflected. You don't even counter these arguments, you just copy past

BurntZebra
BurntZebra

its a fire type. everyone knows fire types are bad

fredrichnietze

fredrichnietze

Posted
Posted

Nope.
Best sets for it IMO are choice band with fire blast, or mixed with Giga drain to kill slowbro on switch and flamethrower for skarm/fort

giga wont kill bro, giga is for swampert.

 

Surprised that gyarados wasn't used as much I thought he would be.

im not. too hard to set up with DD jolly set and sweep.

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  • 1 month later...
Robofiend

Robofiend

Posted
Posted

Is it worth updating this for the Snorlax-less meta? At any rate, here are some thoughts:

 

Gyarados: S : A total monster with the speed, bulk and movepool to shut down tons of weaker pokemon. Intimidate itself is a huge advantage, and even with a 2x electric weakness it still loves to rip through wall-less teams after a single DD.

 

Kingdra: A+ : One of the scariest pokemon around, it absolutely loves stall and the fact that people are using Starmie. With the ability to quickly get two or three DD's under its belt without fear of being phased, Kingdra can serve as a surprising and devastating DD'er, especially when your opponent expects the more common (and admittedly better) Gyarados.

 

Weezing: A+ : Undoubtedly the tier's best Physical wall due to Toxic immunity, Ground immunity, Pain Split and coverage moves like Flamethrower and Thunderbolt that hit Gyarados and Metagross hard. 

 

Metagross: S : A total monster who doesn't get OHKO'd by almost anything in OU if built bulky. Agility, Explosion, Meteor Mash, Thunderpunch, Pursuit and even Psychic are all viable moves that meet a variety of team needs pretty well.

 

Heracross: S : Still amazing even with Weezing being as common as it is. 

 

Blissey: B : Honestly not very good. Using Blissey is an easy way to keep Special attackers from ruining your team, but the threat of getting picked off by Dugtrio can quickly upend its ability to support your team. With Aroma/Softboiled on almost every set, it struggles to find 2 moves that cover all of the things Blissey is good at. Ice/Electric makes it Bulky Magnet bait, Seismic Toss variants fail against Sub-Gengar and Twave, while otherwise amazing, can be a big waste of space if your opponent's also carrying a Blissey.

 

Jolteon: B+ : Still not amazing, but it's become more useful without being Curselax bait. Support options like Wish and Twave make it scary, and it's one of the few special attackers that really benefits from having HP Grass to take out wayward Swamperts. 

 

Forretress: B+ : The tier's only good spiker, and it can also spin. Against pokemon that don't boost or frequently run CB (Metagross, Aero, Heracross) it's a pretty solid way to get some residual damage, but ultimately suffers from a lack of offense and the increased viability of Magneton.

 

Dugtrio: A : A pretty awesome team supporter who can make life hell for almost any team. The CB variant is an awesome revenge killer who loves picking off Heracross, weakened Metagross, Magneton and other weakened walls. The Sub variant is a pretty foolproof way to make short work of Blissey-centric teams. CB locked variants are easy Pursuit targets, while Sub can fail if you either lose a sweeper too early, your opponent has Ludicolo/Arcanine instead of Blissey, or you miss a double-switch predict and get pummeled by a wayward attack from just about anything in the top usage tiers.

 

Gengar: A : Without Snorlax around, I sometimes find myself scratching my head about why people use Gengar. With faster attackers becoming more common, it's no longer the speed demon that it was, and with Arcanine still seeing considerable use non-special sweeper don't have the punch that they used to. Nonetheless, its versatility is even more amazing without having to run SubDisable for Curselax, and teams that don't have a pure special wall like Blissey can be taken down a notch by this thing's amazing movepool. Subpunch is as dangerous as ever, but finds fewer chances to set up with DD Gyarados/Kingdra, Agiligross, Jolteon/Starmie/Aero being more viable, and virtually no Skarmory to abuse.

 

Starmie: A : With no Pursuit or Curse Snorlax around, this thing has instantly become more popular. As a part of the feared Star/Trio core, it can guarantee some solid Damage output if your opponent is stupid enough to use Blissey. While a little underpowered, it plows through almost everything in the tier except Metagross and Swampert with the right moveset. 

 

Slowbro: A : lack of true phasers lets the CM set dominate, but it can be brought down by Toxic. Works well on teams with Blissey but also struggles to provide good defense against Heracross, who can't switch in very well but can take a large shit on you as a revenge-killer. 

 

Umbreon: B : A nice and fairly balanced wall that can trap or stall Gengar, Starmie and Slowbro into submission with the right set. Nonetheless, its vulnerability to Dugtrio makes it pretty unreliable and it doesn't help that it often exists to welcome Heracross, Metagross or some other physical threat into battle.

 

Ludicolo: B+ : Pretty solid mixed wall with 2 stabs that give it recourse against many common walls and sweepers alike. Lack of Flying/Poison attacks only benefit it, and with Blissey around more than ever, it's a pretty fun way to get around 25% of your health back per turn from Leech Seeding. Instant recovery, viability on Rain teams and lack of special weaknesses (outside of Sludge Bomb) give it lots of ways to function on defensive cores.

 

Aerodactyl: B : Considerably better without fear of getting set-up on or failing to kill a +1 Snorlax, but still needs good prediction to be effective.

 

Vaporeon: B : Now that it doesn't open up opportunities for a Curselax switch-in this thing can be really powerful, especially when Equipped with HP Electric to punish Gyarados. However, letting other water types (Starmie, Gyarados, Slowbro, Kindgdra, Ludicolo) into play can turn your attempt at Wish Passing into a quick loss

 

Magneton: A : bulky variant poops on BoltBeam Blissey, ability to trap common slower steel types like Metagross is just plain brutal. Its amazing SpA attack and coverage options with HP Fire/Grass make it pretty hard to wall unless you have a Flygon handy. Resistance to Dark, Bug, Ice, Electric, Rock, Psychic, Ghost and Poison let it perform surprisingly well against common Gengar sets as well.

 

Flygon: B : not awful, and it does a solid chunk of damage to Weezing/Skarmory/Forretress when it predicts correctly, but even with a Choice Band strapped its damage output is a little low. Lack of boosting moves and middling speed make it a poor team member to still have alive late game.

 

Swampert: B : good Spdef gives it reason to see use and the CB/Curse set can be reasonably stronk if your opponent lacks a grass move or physical wall, but other than its typing (which allows it to shut down Metagross really well) it also often finds itself opening doors for Slowbro, Starmie, or Gyarados to come into play.

 

Skarmory: B- : lack of resistances don't help it much, especially with lots of Electric attacks flying everywhere and the newfound viability of Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Forretress. Lack of normal type moves makes it inferior to Forretress except in its ability to phase and provide moderate switch damage with Drill Peck.

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codylramey

codylramey

Posted
Posted

Is it worth updating this for the Snorlax-less meta? At any rate, here are some thoughts:

 

Gyarados: S : A total monster with the speed, bulk and movepool to shut down tons of weaker pokemon. Intimidate itself is a huge advantage, and even with a 2x electric weakness it still loves to rip through wall-less teams after a single DD.

 

Kingdra: A+ : One of the scariest pokemon around, it absolutely loves stall and the fact that people are using Starmie. With the ability to quickly get two or three DD's under its belt without fear of being phased, Kingdra can serve as a surprising and devastating DD'er, especially when your opponent expects the more common (and admittedly better) Gyarados.

 

Weezing: A+ : Undoubtedly the tier's best Physical wall due to Toxic immunity, Ground immunity, Pain Split and coverage moves like Flamethrower and Thunderbolt that hit Gyarados and Metagross hard. 

 

Metagross: S : A total monster who doesn't get OHKO'd by almost anything in OU if built bulky. Agility, Explosion, Meteor Mash, Thunderpunch, Pursuit and even Psychic are all viable moves that meet a variety of team needs pretty well.

 

Heracross: S : Still amazing even with Weezing being as common as it is. 

 

Blissey: B : Honestly not very good. Using Blissey is an easy way to keep Special attackers from ruining your team, but the threat of getting picked off by Dugtrio can quickly upend its ability to support your team. With Aroma/Softboiled on almost every set, it struggles to find 2 moves that cover all of the things Blissey is good at. Ice/Electric makes it Bulky Magnet bait, Seismic Toss variants fail against Sub-Gengar and Twave, while otherwise amazing, can be a big waste of space if your opponent's also carrying a Blissey.

 

Jolteon: B+ : Still not amazing, but it's become more useful without being Curselax bait. Support options like Wish and Twave make it scary, and it's one of the few special attackers that really benefits from having HP Grass to take out wayward Swamperts. 

 

Forretress: B+ : The tier's only good spiker, and it can also spin. Against pokemon that don't boost or frequently run CB (Metagross, Aero, Heracross) it's a pretty solid way to get some residual damage, but ultimately suffers from a lack of offense and the increased viability of Magneton.

 

Dugtrio: A : A pretty awesome team supporter who can make life hell for almost any team. The CB variant is an awesome revenge killer who loves picking off Heracross, weakened Metagross, Magneton and other weakened walls. The Sub variant is a pretty foolproof way to make short work of Blissey-centric teams. CB locked variants are easy Pursuit targets, while Sub can fail if you either lose a sweeper too early, your opponent has Ludicolo/Arcanine instead of Blissey, or you miss a double-switch predict and get pummeled by a wayward attack from just about anything in the top usage tiers.

 

Gengar: A : Without Snorlax around, I sometimes find myself scratching my head about why people use Gengar. With faster attackers becoming more common, it's no longer the speed demon that it was, and with Arcanine still seeing considerable use non-special sweeper don't have the punch that they used to. Nonetheless, its versatility is even more amazing without having to run SubDisable for Curselax, and teams that don't have a pure special wall like Blissey can be taken down a notch by this thing's amazing movepool. Subpunch is as dangerous as ever, but finds fewer chances to set up with DD Gyarados/Kingdra, Agiligross, Jolteon/Starmie/Aero being more viable, and virtually no Skarmory to abuse.

 

Starmie: A : With no Pursuit or Curse Snorlax around, this thing has instantly become more popular. As a part of the feared Star/Trio core, it can guarantee some solid Damage output if your opponent is stupid enough to use Blissey. While a little underpowered, it plows through almost everything in the tier except Metagross and Swampert with the right moveset. 

 

Slowbro: A : lack of true phasers lets the CM set dominate, but it can be brought down by Toxic. Works well on teams with Blissey but also struggles to provide good defense against Heracross, who can't switch in very well but can take a large shit on you as a revenge-killer. 

 

Umbreon: B : A nice and fairly balanced wall that can trap or stall Gengar, Starmie and Slowbro into submission with the right set. Nonetheless, its vulnerability to Dugtrio makes it pretty unreliable and it doesn't help that it often exists to welcome Heracross, Metagross or some other physical threat into battle.

 

Ludicolo: B+ : Pretty solid mixed wall with 2 stabs that give it recourse against many common walls and sweepers alike. Lack of Flying/Poison attacks only benefit it, and with Blissey around more than ever, it's a pretty fun way to get around 25% of your health back per turn from Leech Seeding. Instant recovery, viability on Rain teams and lack of special weaknesses (outside of Sludge Bomb) give it lots of ways to function on defensive cores.

 

Aerodactyl: B : Considerably better without fear of getting set-up on or failing to kill a +1 Snorlax, but still needs good prediction to be effective.

 

Vaporeon: B : Now that it doesn't open up opportunities for a Curselax switch-in this thing can be really powerful, especially when Equipped with HP Electric to punish Gyarados. However, letting other water types (Starmie, Gyarados, Slowbro, Kindgdra, Ludicolo) into play can turn your attempt at Wish Passing into a quick loss

 

Magneton: A : bulky variant poops on BoltBeam Blissey, ability to trap common slower steel types like Metagross is just plain brutal. Its amazing SpA attack and coverage options with HP Fire/Grass make it pretty hard to wall unless you have a Flygon handy. Resistance to Dark, Bug, Ice, Electric, Rock, Psychic, Ghost and Poison let it perform surprisingly well against common Gengar sets as well.

 

Flygon: B : not awful, and it does a solid chunk of damage to Weezing/Skarmory/Forretress when it predicts correctly, but even with a Choice Band strapped its damage output is a little low. Lack of boosting moves and middling speed make it a poor team member to still have alive late game.

 

Swampert: B : good Spdef gives it reason to see use and the CB/Curse set can be reasonably stronk if your opponent lacks a grass move or physical wall, but other than its typing (which allows it to shut down Metagross really well) it also often finds itself opening doors for Slowbro, Starmie, or Gyarados to come into play.

 

Skarmory: B- : lack of resistances don't help it much, especially with lots of Electric attacks flying everywhere and the newfound viability of Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Forretress. Lack of normal type moves makes it inferior to Forretress except in its ability to phase and provide moderate switch damage with Drill Peck.

Idt ur giving flygon enough credit. I havent played in a while tho (Exams, projects, and preparing new poke(s) for psl). So maybe with the added viability of starmie comes less viability for flygon. But i know b4 it was scary af. Spamming Dclaw unil weezing and gegar was gone was a great way to use it, then EQing everything else.

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  • 2 weeks later...
OldKeith

OldKeith

Posted
Posted

I understand Porygon is one of the few counters to some of the Gyarados sets, but that does not make it viable. Gyarados has no viable counters in OU, but I shall open a thread for Gyarados once the Lax testing ends.

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OldKeith

OldKeith

Posted
Posted

P2 isn't unviable. In fact I've seen players have a pretty decent amount of success with it. The ability to spread status and revenge-trap pokes like magneton is pretty decent.

 

For a status spreader it's quite terrible. The only thing it really traps back is Magneton, and it loses to it anyway if it does not carry hp fire. It gets walled by pretty much anything in the meta (Blissey, Venusaur mainly). Not to mention it adds up to the list of pokemon that fall to Dugtrio.

 

Is it supposed to be a special attacker? Because others do it better.

Is it supposed to be a wall? Because others do it better.

 

It's not seeing usage simply because it does not fit, not because people have not realised how good it is or whatever. It cannot come into choice banders, barring some exceptions like Flygon's Earthquake, it cannot damage anything properly. Pls remove from A.

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