Gunthug Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 If you play jynx with shadow ball instead of signal beam, sneasel becomes a really dangerous and easy switch in. I don't believe sneasel is NU Link to comment
Gunthug Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Where is Chansey? Also not NU... Link to comment
DrCraig Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Where is Chansey? I have the one that you want. Offer? Kanzo and Sylou 2 Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I don't believe sneasel is NU You are right. I am quite surprised to see that sneasel is UU with such a low usage. Without pursuit, Sharpedo is probably not a suitable replacement to sneasel, If jynx doesnt have lovely kiss, Aggron can force jynx out until the lack of recovery makes him faint. I dont see anyone beside metang that can safely get rid of jynx. Edited June 3, 2015 by lamerb Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 So threats are Jynx, Pika and Sharpedo to an extent after the tournament? Link to comment
LionKIng Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 what about kabutops and primeape? also, zangoose and scyther can be pretty scary with just enough experience to pull them off at the right time Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 what about kabutops and primeape? also, zangoose and scyther can be pretty scary with just enough experience to pull them off at the right time Kabutops is walled by Bellossom and Tangela. Primeape to a certain extent can be dealt with those two, or sableye and bulky grumpig. Zangoose is scary but we got Armaldo (depending on if it has iron tail) and hitmontop is a nice revenge killer. Uh I haven't seen much of Scyther tbh but I think pokemon like Armaldo, Relicanth, Golem can survive a +2 BB and still ohko back with rock slide. Link to comment
Viking Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) after saw the PTS NU tourney we agreed that pika is actualy in the top of the NU tier, in my opinion, i place Lapras in 2nd because of its bulk and its perish trap (boring) set. For the problem of sharpedo, it seems that it can be walled by tangela easily. inb4 a newborn of the mixed sharp (icebeam crunch surf or waterfall earthquake) Kabutops will become too a very used NU because of SD and a strong dualstab with a nice speed but tangela is allways the best counter to it. Zangoose is certainly a little more powerfull for the NU tier (i see only solrock for block him) because of return / crushclaw haxing and an acces to Fire punch and lowkick (Aggron) i did'nt saw jynx yesterday and agrron / metang seems to be pretty good for block it (without lovelykiss). Actually jynx has a good % usage in UU atm so it will be logic to put it in UU. For speak about sneasel, it will be better in the tier where is'nt hitmontop (machpunch) so if hitmontop is removed to UU sneasel has no reason to be used in UU then. For finish, we maybe have to see the potential of ampharos in NU (maybe too much bulk for the tier) edit: Uh I haven't seen much of Scyther tbh but I think pokemon like Armaldo, Relicanth, Golem can survive a +2 BB and still ohko back with rock slide. A sub / counter set seem to be the only way to run scyther atm, so relicanth is not a good counter imo, but golem / armaldo with rock blast fuck totally it. so there not really a problem with scyther at the moment sorry about my probably english faults. Edited June 3, 2015 by Viking Link to comment
londark Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Jolly Sharpedo with 0 Sp.Atk EVs OHKO 252/0 Tangela with Ice Beam, looks pretty cool to me to destroy Tangela, while keeping the power of CB, and poliwrath still deals with Sharpedo. EDIT: I think CB Tops can somehow deal with Bellosson, not with Tangela tho Edited June 3, 2015 by londark Link to comment
Viking Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 jumpluff seem to be one of the most borring pokemon of the tier (Sub/ Leech / Spore(not sure if it learns) Smeargle classical can set up too easily imo ( Belly / spore / Xspeed / Explo or Crunch?) it foces to take an insomnia ability (ariados / hypno) And i think poliwrath has any reason to stay in NU lel, i don't to explain why... Kizhaz 1 Link to comment
felix Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Zangoose is certainly a little more powerfull for the NU tier (i see only solrock for block him) because of return / crushclaw haxing and an acces to Fire punch and lowkick (Aggron) Golem, Armaldo, Cradily, Support Banette (does it learn WoW here?), Lunatone, Relicanth, Magcargo can check (the change of burn is op), even Pelipper (+2 252 Atk Zangoose Return vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Pelipper: 120-142 (72.2 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) Looks to me lots of options. Edited June 3, 2015 by felix Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Who exactly agreed with you Viking lol. I havent seen Lapras do any serious damage, neither did Ampharos or Zangoose. Kabutops is definitely scary but he is really hard to play right. I havent seem much of Jumpluff so cant comment on it. Jynx is a bigger threat than Pikachu, if you are forced to run Metang than lol. Spdef Aggron also seems overly specific. It should either be quikcbanned or be the first suspect. Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 How is smeargle? I havent seen one yet Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 How is smeargle? I havent seen one yet its garbage Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) its garbage Really? Spore, drum, espeed combo sounds OP. I assume it's just too slow to pull it off then? nvm 20 base atk isn't doing anything for it Edited June 3, 2015 by Kizhaz Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Spore + BDrum + Espeed + filler Smeargle is good but way too unreliable to have a shot at actually sweeping teams. 1-3 turn sleep makes it always at least 33% chance of failing and it doesn't guarantee a sweep nearly always. I thought EQ is the best coverage move for Aggron/Golem and so on but Lunatone and Solrock walls that set completely. Link to comment
londark Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Zigzagoon with support is better than Smeargle at Belly Sweeping Link to comment
flavajabari Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 stantler outclassed by zangoose or whut ? heard nobody bring it up so far, intim + sweet coverage + megahorn to rekt tangela/bello Gunthug 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Kabutops is walled by Bellossom and Tangela. Primeape to a certain extent can be dealt with those two, or sableye and bulky grumpig. Zangoose is scary but we got Armaldo (depending on if it has iron tail) and hitmontop is a nice revenge killer. Uh I haven't seen much of Scyther tbh but I think pokemon like Armaldo, Relicanth, Golem can survive a +2 BB and still ohko back with rock slide. Jolly Kabutops+2 252 Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 289-340 (95.3 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO +2 252 Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 319-376 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO Adamant Kabutops +2 252+ Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 316-372 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO +2 252+ Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 351-413 (99.1 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO Tangela and Belossom do not wall Kabutops very well. They also both take significant damage against RS choice band. Adamant Kabutops252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 135-159 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 1 flinch = game over Edit: I dont know why the calculator was set up with tangela with 0 iv hp and 0 iv def .... Bellosom is still unable to handle kabutops. Edited June 3, 2015 by lamerb Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Jolly Kabutops+2 252 Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 289-340 (95.3 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO +2 252 Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 319-376 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO Adamant Kabutops +2 252+ Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 316-372 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO +2 252+ Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 351-413 (99.1 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO Tangela and Belossom do not wall Kabutops very well. They also both take significant damage against RS choice band. Adamant Kabutops252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 135-159 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 1 flinch = game over Edit: I dont know why the calculator was set up with tangela with 0 iv hp and 0 iv def .... Bellosom is still unable to handle kabutops. CB set means you need to scout for the attack and depending on that you can have your defensive core. If you're going to run flail set then you'll be easily revenge killed by priority users like tops. Once you endure, it's obvious that it is a flail set so then you can go to sableye. I don't think +2 kills sableye. Switching into Bell/Tangela is the best option vs Kabutops because that's when you can scout the set. Since both have recovery moves, they can always recover their health back. In this sense, Bell/Tangela are better choices than hitmontop. If you still disagree with this then that is your wish. Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Jolly Kabutops+2 252 Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 289-340 (95.3 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO +2 252 Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 319-376 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO Adamant Kabutops +2 252+ Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 316-372 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO +2 252+ Atk Kabutops Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 351-413 (99.1 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO Tangela and Belossom do not wall Kabutops very well. They also both take significant damage against RS choice band. Adamant Kabutops252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 135-159 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 1 flinch = game over Edit: I dont know why the calculator was set up with tangela with 0 iv hp and 0 iv def .... Bellosom is still unable to handle kabutops. 1 not flinch and you lost your kabutops. Also Flail set means you are running either Flail + RS or Flail + Waterfall which both have their flaws. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 1 not flinch and you lost your kabutops. Also Flail set means you are running either Flail + RS or Flail + Waterfall which both have their flaws. Flail + waterfall is perfect coverage. No flaws. #kingler RS flinch chance is 30%. A "wall" that has 30% of loosing is pretty weak imo. Bellosom, being one of the best options, is still not that great when you think about it. CB set means you need to scout for the attack and depending on that you can have your defensive core. If you're going to run flail set then you'll be easily revenge killed by priority users like tops. Once you endure, it's obvious that it is a flail set so then you can go to sableye. I don't think +2 kills sableye. Switching into Bell/Tangela is the best option vs Kabutops because that's when you can scout the set. Since both have recovery moves, they can always recover their health back. In this sense, Bell/Tangela are better choices than hitmontop. If you still disagree with this then that is your wish. I would say that substitute is more viable than endure for that specific reason. Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Flail + waterfall is perfect coverage. No flaws. #kingler RS flinch chance is 30%. A "wall" that has 30% of loosing is pretty weak imo. Bellosom, being one of the best options, is still not that great when you think about it. I would say that substitute is more viable than endure for that specific reason. A sweeper that has 70% to lose isn't a good 'sweeper' if you ask me. This goes both ways m8 If you think you are going to behind a Sub with +2 then you must be dreaming, if your opponent somehow does let you have that he deserves to lose. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 A sweeper that has 70% to lose isn't a good 'sweeper' if you ask me. This goes both ways m8 If you think you are going to behind a Sub with +2 then you must be dreaming, if your opponent somehow does let you have that he deserves to lose. Well if your answer to kabutops is to switch on bellosom, it is quite easy to set up substitute. Gilvy, Yaguarete and LionKIng 3 Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Well if your answer to kabutops is to switch on bellosom, it is quite easy to set up substitute. You're right but as per your calcs, flail has low % chance of ohkoing which means every time you set up a sub, the chances of you ohko-ing me lowers assuming that I have taken damage at some point. Also if I know you have sub, I will switch my hitmontop at some point when you're at 50% hp, so that intimidate+mach punch lowers your chances of doing much dmg. Edited June 3, 2015 by NikhilR Link to comment
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