ThinkNice Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Tbh Poli can find ways to set up on Banded Sharpedo/Kabutops as well. Not saying that Poli is op or anything but there are opportunities for it to set up. I think glalie can also be set up bait if it doesn't carry hp grass/electric.definitely but you'd rather set up with full health so you are less prone to priority. And even fully set up Electrode is faster and I can see Trode being viable in NU. I believe Glalie is faster and can carry Taunt? Not sure but if you eeally want to prevent a set up you can Taunt. It probably carries WA for Shark too so it can Explode but the cjhance of Damp could sceew that up. Link to comment
NikhilR Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 definitely but you'd rather set up with full health so you are less prone to priority. And even fully set up Electrode is faster and I can see Trode being viable in NU. I believe Glalie is faster and can carry Taunt? Not sure but if you eeally want to prevent a set up you can Taunt. It probably carries WA for Shark too so it can Explode but the cjhance of Damp could sceew that up. Yeah you're right about the priority part because Hitmontop is definitely going to be seen more often. Electrode is a nice check to it. Uh glalie can be faster but it depends on your build I guess. Some people run fully defensive so that it can set up spikes while others would run max speed to taunt other glalies so it doesn't set up spikes and can set up spikes itself, or at least that's how it was in the previous meta. Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Only thing that I can think of that Memento Pluff supports that well is BDrum Poli. So don't think Pluff is the broken one there, to be honest. Not to mention Poli is just amazing overall Pokemon, too with CB and Bulk Up set. Also Nik is right about how it can set up on other stuff as well. Not all NUs hit 50% to Poliwrath and it can abuse CB Water attack really bad and so on. Not entirely sure if the priority we have is enough to stop it: Mach Punch Chan (or offensive Top), Espeed Pikachu and well.. that's pretty much it. Oh yeah Electrode outspeeds it even after JollySalac but > Electrode Link to comment
londark Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Only thing that I can think of that Memento Pluff supports that well is BDrum Poli. So don't think Pluff is the broken one there, to be honest. Not to mention Poli is just amazing overall Pokemon, too with CB and Bulk Up set. Also Nik is right about how it can set up on other stuff as well. Not all NUs hit 50% to Poliwrath and it can abuse CB Water attack really bad and so on. Not entirely sure if the priority we have is enough to stop it: Mach Punch Chan (or offensive Top), Espeed Pikachu and well.. that's pretty much it. Memento Jumpluff can potentially support lots of Set Up Sweepers, like Sword Dancer or even Calm Minders letting them set up, considering it can Sleep, Encore, Reflect, Memento....Zigzagoon There are a bunch of STAB QA around like Pidgeot, Raticate, Zangoose...( altho, some of them could not kill a 4/0 Poli at 25% Hp )...and Speed Boost Yanma/Ninjask ( had to )...Persian has Fake out too i guess, but pretty sure it can't deal 25% unless Adamant CB EDIT: Jumpluff can potentially switch in Poli and Encore the shit out of it unless it switch is an Ice Punch Edited June 2, 2015 by londark Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Memento Jumpluff can potentially support lots of Set Up Sweepers, like Sword Dancer or even Calm Minders letting them set up, considering it can Sleep, Encore, Reflect, Memento....Zigzagoon There are a bunch of STAB QA around like Pidgeot, Raticate, Zangoose...( altho, some of them could not kill a 4/0 Poli at 25% Hp )...and Speed Boost Yanma/Ninjask ( had to )...Persian has Fake out too i guess, but pretty sure it can't deal 25% unless Adamant CB EDIT: Jumpluff can potentially switch in Poli and Encore the shit out of it unless it switch is an Ice Punch Yeah it can support those SD and CM users but with a huge cost and doesn't nearly ever guarantee a sweep while Wrath guarantees a sweep if no priority is actually on opposing team or Electrode or Tropius on Ice Punchless Wrath / Lapras against BBless Wrath (too situational). Yeah I totally forgot about those 3 but I'd say Zangoose is the only viable of them and running multiple same type isn't just... wise. But CB QA Zangoose really should be a thing. Speed Boost Yanma and Ninjask just... not viable. And the last thing about Pluff, yeah actually that is quite true. Edit: Now that I think Yanma might not be too bad with all the Reversals and stuff. Can break some stuff. Ninjask's coverage is just... the worst next to Magikarp. Edited June 2, 2015 by OrangeManiac Link to comment
londark Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 i mean, not running all the normal types toghether, but all can carry a STAB priority move, altho some of them are weak, also considering that depending on Poli Nature/Set it could run Hp EVs too...CB Zangoose looks quite cool, but won't understimate Raticate and Pidgeot as well ( Persian is outclasse imo ). Also, Poli has some coverage issues with Sub/Drum + 2 moves, since depending on what coverage moves it lacks there are Pokes like Tangela, Lapras, Walrein that can wall it at +6. The last 2 can also switch on a sub and roar it away/encore Walrein/Yoloing Perish Song Lapras on the Belly ( Inb4 Focus Punch GGWP ) Speed Booster were a joke Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Only thing that I can think of that Memento Pluff supports that well is BDrum Poli. So don't think Pluff is the broken one there, to be honest. Not to mention Poli is just amazing overall Pokemon, too with CB and Bulk Up set. Also Nik is right about how it can set up on other stuff as well. Not all NUs hit 50% to Poliwrath and it can abuse CB Water attack really bad and so on. Not entirely sure if the priority we have is enough to stop it: Mach Punch Chan (or offensive Top), Espeed Pikachu and well.. that's pretty much it. Oh yeah Electrode outspeeds it even after JollySalac but > Electrode I wasn't just takling about Jumpluff's supporting capabilities in Memento and Encore. It can do way more than that and that is what makes it so problematic. It can fast Screen, Encore, Memento to support setup Mon like Wrath. It can be a SubSD'er that is pretty hard to stop with STAB Giga Drain to boot. It can be the Staller with SubSeed, all of this in a whole make it one of the most unpredictable and banworthy Pokémon IMO. Why would NU Pokémon need to hit Wrath for 50%? Any SubDrummer would like to Sub first to prevent status hax or crit hax or being less vulnerable to Status moves/Leech Seed. And there are plenty of Pokémon that can hit Wrath for 25%. Then you say that you aren't sure that the priority we have would be enough for Wrath while Hitmontop and Pikachu are going to be the most common Pokémon in NU for now, outside of those two Londar named a lot of other Mons with priority or fast Encore (Golduck and Mime wop). Also defensive Pig can just Whirlwind on the Sub. And then a mon that outright counters it in Mantine hue. '>Electrode', why are you laughing? Electrode can be extremely effective for offensive teams with an extremely fast Explosion/Taunt and Screens, coupled with a respective SpA (for NU standard) and great STAB in Thunderbolt. Couple it with the fact that it can check most Salac users with only his speed and you have a great NU Mon. [spoiler]The God[spoiler]+6 252+ Atk Poliwrath Brick Break vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Parasect: 240-282 (74.3 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery[/spoiler][/spoiler] [spoiler]Also this +6 252+ Atk Poliwrath Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tropius: 163-192 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery[/spoiler] YagamiNoir 1 Link to comment
londark Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The problem with Hitmontop priority is 0 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 24-28 (14.4 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO 252 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 30-36 (18 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO Double priority with Fake Out + Mach Punch may work tho 20 Atk Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 17-20 (10.2 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO + 20 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 25-30 (15 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The problem with Hitmontop priority is 0 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 24-28 (14.4 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO 252 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 30-36 (18 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO Double priority with Fake Out + Mach Punch may work tho 20 Atk Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 17-20 (10.2 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO + 20 Atk Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 25-30 (15 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO That's true, but I think it's pretty hard for Poli to get the perfect 25% without Memento support. 28 Atk Light Ball Pikachu ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 42-50 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO wop It's hard for it to set up on stall teams to with things like Roar Lapras or Walrein, Tropius, Haze Mantine, Encore Pluff etc. Link to comment
londark Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yeah, i personally think it'll be good having something as versatile as Poli around Link to comment
YagamiNoir Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It's hard for it to set up on stall teams to with things like Roar Lapras or Walrein If Poli decides to Belly Drum before Subbing, those two are toast. If they switch out in fear of being attacked as it sets up a Sub, even worse. I get people start with Sub first but I wouldn't call two things weak to it's STAB appropriate phazers. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 shedninjapros immune to most typings, with SD cna quickly become very dangerous cons sandstorm, hail, spikees, toxic, wow, every hit that does dmg 1hko How do you get SD on shedinja? The pokedex says it is an egg move, but since you receive shedinja before ninjask learn any moves I don't think it is possible right now. Link to comment
Orlandu Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 How do you get SD on shedinja? The pokedex says it is an egg move, but since you receive shedinja before ninjask learn any moves I don't think it is possible right now. Move tutor on island 7. gbwead 1 Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 How do you get SD on shedinja? The pokedex says it is an egg move, but since you receive shedinja before ninjask learn any moves I don't think it is possible right now. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shedinja_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_IV_learnset#By_TM.2FHM ninjask can learn it before it turns into shedninja as lvl up move or tutor. when they split shedninja will know sd. Move tutor on island 7. kinda but see above Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I had two awesome games in a very diverse tier it looks like. Will play more now. Link to comment
Munya Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shedinja_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_IV_learnset#By_TM.2FHM ninjask can learn it before it turns into shedninja as lvl up move or tutor. when they split shedninja will know sd. kinda but see above currently bugged and not possible Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 currently bugged and not possible well that's depressing..... Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 currently bugged and not possible No pun intended? Munya 1 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Jynx needs a quickban. Sableye32, Gilvy, dedegendut and 2 others 5 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Jynx is insane in uu and im glad it hasn't become popular. Gilvy 1 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Unlike Pikachu, Jynx shreds Stall apart with Fake Tears or the even more terrifying Calm Mind. Jynx has two very powerful and hard to cover STABs in Ice Beam and Psychic and it gained Shadow Ball with the split making a set like Fake Tears + 3 attack shred through anything. I think Jynx is comparable to Pikachu because of how paper they both are. But while Pikachu can be relatively well checked by offense, Jynx will literally kill something every time its out against offense and it completely decimates Stall play. The only playstyle that has a chance against Jynx is balance with pokes like Grumpig + Lapras. Jynx may have paper thing defenses but it can actually switch in on HP Ices, Psychics and other weak Hidden Powers with respectable Spdef stat. After that it just shreds through everything. Link to comment
Senile Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Jynx needs a quickban. I mean, Jynx is probably Pikachu-level, but I dunno, we should give it a bit of time. Nobody's really using it yet, maaaaybe once it's seen a bit more people will develop better answers for it. The problem with Jynx is it's really hard to counter, and it would be really easy to check, all you need is a pokemon that can take a hit, at which point it's forced out because it's made of glass, but the problem is that Lovely Kiss lets would-be checks get slept and it gives Jynx another free turn, if they're willing to take the risk of the opponent waking up. It doesn't hit as hard as something like Pikachu while still being just as hard to switch in, but it has the potential to be ridiculously hard to check if played well; at the moment, it's best to wait, but the thing is S rank at minimum imo. OrangeManiac 1 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I mean, Jynx is probably Pikachu-level, but I dunno, we should give it a bit of time. Nobody's really using it yet, maaaaybe once it's seen a bit more people will develop better answers for it. The problem with Jynx is it's really hard to counter, and it would be really easy to check, all you need is a pokemon that can take a hit, at which point it's forced out because it's made of glass, but the problem is that Lovely Kiss lets would-be checks get slept and it gives Jynx another free turn, if they're willing to take the risk of the opponent waking up. It doesn't hit as hard as something like Pikachu while still being just as hard to switch in, but it has the potential to be ridiculously hard to check if played well; at the moment, it's best to wait, but the thing is S rank at minimum imo. They are similair but Pikachu does not have a boosting move in Calm Mind which makes Jynx ultimately way more threatening. It's access to Calm Mind is the reason it can shred through stall teams while Pikachu can absolutely not do that. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Perfect coverage with two insane stabs that hurt even steel types that resist them. Spdef aggron with twave maybe? Gilvy 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Unlike Pikachu, Jynx shreds Stall apart with Fake Tears or the even more terrifying Calm Mind. Jynx has two very powerful and hard to cover STABs in Ice Beam and Psychic and it gained Shadow Ball with the split making a set like Fake Tears + 3 attack shred through anything. I think Jynx is comparable to Pikachu because of how paper they both are. But while Pikachu can be relatively well checked by offense, Jynx will literally kill something every time its out against offense and it completely decimates Stall play. The only playstyle that has a chance against Jynx is balance with pokes like Grumpig + Lapras. Jynx may have paper thing defenses but it can actually switch in on HP Ices, Psychics and other weak Hidden Powers with respectable Spdef stat. After that it just shreds through everything. If you play jynx with shadow ball instead of signal beam, sneasel becomes a really dangerous and easy switch in. Link to comment
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