Preliminary NU Tier

[YagamiNoir]

Well, I didn't find it necessarily to say the obvious how much a physical defensive tank role filler it can be and that Stab Meteor Mash is pretty stronk and how it gets quite a nice moveset and all. I just felt that people are afraid of every NFE Pokemon even though they wouldn't actually be that bad. I was more responding the my post above saying Metang is "shitty".

People aren't "afraid" of NFE Pokemon, Orange. With the NU we have now, though, you can't honestly find an "adequate" majority that's willing to accept that NFEs unless they're like Chansey viable deserve their viability. I've said it before -- if "NU" didn't get the major power creep being the NU of UU dropping down, stuff like this would still be good. 

 

EDIT: I didn't expect NU to be like this either, but I honestly don't really mind, apart from the mild shame that the "NUs" will be "NU of NU" now, or "PU".

Edited June 4, 2015 by YagamiNoir

[gbwead]

 But I can't still argue against that the fact you would run this would be mainly for Jynx and the fact that would be quite unhealthy.

[Gunthug]

EDIT: I didn't expect NU to be like this either, but I honestly don't really mind, apart from the mild shame that the "NUs" will be "NU of NU" now, or "PU".

Yeah I'm not sure why people seem to be so upset about the list - my guess is, it's just selfish people who had anticipated a different NU and trained a bunch of useless Pokemon lol. In which case, tough shit - no reason to bitch and moan. This tier is gonna be awesome

[OldKeith]

To everyone complaining about the new NU, and how this looks like old UU, I am really sorry that you feel that way, but that is how tiers are supposed to work. Tiers exist to provide alternatives to metas, and the purpose of Never Used is not actually to make all the scraps playable, unlike some of you think. It exists solely to provide a chance for pokemon that are not viable/ used in UU to be used in a third tier. Simple as that. We should not cry if Cubone or Parasect are not viable in this new tier.

 

In terms of balancing, some things will obviously be looked into and may or may not get banned. But we should be patient about this, remember how the new OU and UU were established: At first everything was broken, and only one pokemon was quick banned for each of the tiers. This allowed people to play tournaments and see what is broken in practice, and support it with further arguments or calculations. OU was hard work, UU even more so, but NU will be devilish just because of the incredibly high pool of viable options available. Your job is to completely forget your old Seadra-Pidgeot-Sableye-Piloswine-Swalot teams, and think about new ways in which you can dominate THIS NU.

 

If something is broken, prove it by using it, or by providing arguments why you think it is a problem for the tier as a whole. Comments like "this is not NU" are not very intelligent and I hope people will stop posting them. Remember the tiers undergo drastic changes every generation, ask Senile or read Smogon. Adapt, stay positive, and we will make sure that in a couple of months we will have a very well-established, healthy and balanced tier you all can enjoy.

Edited June 4, 2015 by OldKeith

[Kiliminati]

Parasect is always viable tho

Proof: Aurasect

[Senile]

Some blessed soul should invest time into making an NU Viability thread. I haven't tried the tier and haven't been keeping up with the thread so I need an organized view of this tier. :P

I can provide a banner.

I mean, you really can't make an NU viability thread yet because there isn't really even a metagame yet. Even the top threats can't stay consistent, first everyone was scared of Sharpedo, then Pikachu, and now Jynx, and most teams are completely different from each other because nobody really knows what to run or all the threats they need to build for in their team.

 

tl;dr: too early for a viability thread because nobody knows wtf they're even doing yet anyway

[DrCraig]

I mean, you really can't make an NU viability thread yet because there isn't really even a metagame yet. Even the top threats can't stay consistent, first everyone was scared of Sharpedo, then Pikachu, and now Jynx, and most teams are completely different from each other because nobody really knows what to run or all the threats they need to build for in their team.

 

tl;dr: too early for a viability thread because nobody knows wtf they're even doing yet anyway

Oh I'm sorry I forgot nobody can make a thread until a tournament happened because that just isn't allowed, right?

Starting early isn't allowed, sorry you don't approve Senile?

[spoiler]Don't give a shit[/spoiler]

[Senile]

Oh I'm sorry I forgot nobody can make a thread until a tournament happened because that just isn't allowed, right?

Starting early isn't allowed, sorry you don't approve Senile?

[spoiler]Don't give a shit[/spoiler]

I see. So you're saying, we should start discussing the tier early, even if it's too early to actually make the list, so that we can already start putting things together huh? That's a good idea. Someone should make a thread for that.

 

OH WAIT SHIT

[DrCraig]

I see. So you're saying, we should start discussing the tier early, even if it's too early to actually make the list, so that we can already start putting things together huh? That's a good idea. Someone should make a thread for that.

 

OH WAIT SHIT

OH that's a good joke, except your just misinterpreting what I say on purpose so you sound correct.

 

OH WAIT SHIT

[Gunthug]

Based on the UU usage that has been collected over the past month, we have made a cut off point to separate UU and NU using the same 4.36% that was used in OU. Below I have put together a list of Pokemon in NU (excluding NFEs) that may help with team building. This list is subject to change based on the NU council's decision. 

 

There will be no viability thread or discussion request thread as of yet for obvious reasons. Please use this thread to discuss the implementation of NU, keeping in mind that this is a preliminary list. 

 

Absol

etc.

I mean craig, this language is pretty clear. Now stop, ur salting up comp alley

[DrCraig]

Some blessed soul should post their viability ranks for the top tier of NU on this thread.*

[OldKeith]

I think everything is B+, and Parasect is C-.

[Gunthug]

I only got about 2 solid days of NU battles in on the PTS, but I created a LOT of pokemon in that time. Didn't get a chance to test them all, but I'll go ahead and give some brief, vague thoughts on what I think are the biggest, baddest threats.

 

[spoiler]

Absol

-I saw a LOT of signal beam, especially from the bulky psychics like mime and grumpig. Absol will have a place as a nice revenge killer that can pursuit trap a lot of psychics, but as long as signal beam remains popular, it'll have to be careful switching in. It's no UU Houndoom

 

Aggron

-CB set is very strong, though I think it's strong in UU as well. Pretty much counter's Jynx's main set, though without recovery it certainly can't come in repeatedly.

 

Ampharos

-I think this'll become one of the premeir pokes of the tier - the bulk is insane, as it can come in on almost anything on the special side and can even shrug off non-eq physical hits with some investment. Tbolt/HP coverage with the option to go physical with something like sub/punch means it has nice offensive pressure, too

 

Ariados

-lel sadly, still not viable. Even with the godly Agility/Endure/Bounce/Megahorn Swarm set.

 

Armaldo

-Really nice defensive pivot, as it's typing leaves it with only a handful of weaknesses. However, with very strong stab waterfalls plaguing the tier, it needs a core to be effective. One of the better rapid spinners in a spikes heavy tier, though, and a swords dance set can catch you off guard and lead to a sweep

 

Banette

-surprisingly effective, as it can serve a nice utility role with trick/will-o-wisp/pain split/destiny bond or a combination of those. It's hurting for a physical stab, but I saw one used specially with shadow ball and it still chips away at the bulky psychics in the tier

 

Bellossom

-didn't see or use, but am interested in how it'll be used - fully defensive wall? special defensive wall? Sun sweeper?

 

Cacturne

-again, didn't see it used - my feeling is, it's outclassed as a spiker by glalie/roselia, but it's got a nice typing that sees resistances to anything sharpedo/whiscash can throw at you (aside from mixed sharpedo). Will probably be a nice lead option

 

Chimecho

-didn't use one but saw it a lot, seems to be a nice cleric, though ultra susceptible to a strong pursuit user like absol

 

Cradily

-not sure what to think on this one - without storm drain, it's still vulnerable to strong stab waterfalls, and with hitmontop looking like a very common option, it's viability will take a hit

 

Electabuzz

-built one but didn't use it. Still, lightning fast (hue) and the option to go mixed with cross chop. Decent special coverage in tbolt/signal beam/hidden power. I think this'll start to see a decent amount of usage, especially since I know old UU players are dying to dust off their old buzz's

 

Electrode

-I saw etrode used very effectively by senile, and I think it's a fantastic utility pokemon and a soild lead. Fast taunt user, can set up screens, rain, sun, w/e you need it to. Stab tbolt is nothing to scoff at, and with limited viable ghosts, explosion can tear holes in the tier.

 

Glalie

-best spiker in the tier imo. Will see a lot of use as a suicide lead, though it's versatile enough to serve other roles too. Old NU players will be very familiar with glalie, so I expect to see a ton of him

 

Golduck

-I think golduck is a solid and possibly overlooked option. Nice natural bulk, few weaknesses, and a very fast encore mean it can set up calm minds relatively easily, and it'll be a nice addition to teams worried about sun sweepers like victreebell and bello.

 

Grumpig

-Fat, bulky, and common. Calm mind set could be a problem, though you can always phaze with your own grumpig hue

 

Hitmonchan

-didn't see it much, if at all. I think it'll be overshadowed by it's brother...

 

Hitmontop

-Will be everywhere. I still mantain that it's not an S rank, maybe low A or high B since it's recovery is awful and it hits like a feather without attack investment. But it slots in on a bunch of teams and can handle a lot of physical attackers

 

Jumpluff

-ugh, annoying as hell. I think it'll go

 

Jynx

-Not just annoying, but just mind bogglingly broken. Lovely kiss means if you brought just 1 Jynx answer, you lose. Plus, phazing is difficult when jynx is most effective late game - I orchestrated a massive comeback against thinknice in a game I had no business winning, just by mindlessly setting up w/jynx. Let's get her outta here

 

Kabutops

-very effective in this meta - can be used as a CBer to chip away at the other team, or you can save it for late game and set up a swords dance. Flail set was effective but, much like hera in OU, I think a SD+3 attack set can also be really effective. Do the strong grass types keep it in check? We'll see

 

Kecleon

-I didn't personally use one but I saw it a few times and it looks like it'll be very interesting to play with, and effective at its job.

 

Lapras

-Pretty strong - maybe too strong honestly. Can run a few different sets effectively, but the rock/fighting weakness doesn't help. Still, not many moves 1hko this monster, even stab rock/fighting.

 

Mantine

-by itself, maybe not that impressive. But what I love about mantine, is that it meshes really well with a wide variety of pokemon. Weak to electric and rock, but resists fighting and fire, immune to water and ground, and shrugs off grass/ice/pretty much any other special attack. Pair it with something like Muk, or hitmontop, or sandslash, etc etc, and youve got a nice core

 

 

*will finish this later with the rest of the pokes in the spoiler - the only other ones I saw/used*

[spoiler]Mr.Mime

Muk

 

Nidoking

Nidoqueen

Ninetales

 

Pikachu

 

Primeape

 

Raichu

 

Sableye

Sandslash

 

Sharpedo

 

Shiftry

 

 

Tropius

 

Venomoth

 

Walrein

Whiscash

 

Zangoose[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[DrCraig]

Thanks Gunthug for not being a buttface, you're the best. I needed that =)

[ThinkNice]

Ill take credits on CM Banette thanks

[DrCraig]

Ill take credits on CM Banette thanks

That set seemed like ass, good job.

[YagamiNoir]

Ill take credits on CM Banette thanks

Nobody takes Banette credits but me.

[ThinkNice]

That set seemed like ass, good job.

pls I was the only one using it effectively on PTS

[BurntZebra]

Did anyone run shedinja besides me and senile? Only played NU on the first day of PTS and got bored. 

[OrangeManiac]

I'm too scared of Spikes to run Shedinja as Glalie and Cacturne are pretty legit.

[Kizhaz]

I only got about 2 solid days of NU battles in on the PTS, but I created a LOT of pokemon in that time. Didn't get a chance to test them all, but I'll go ahead and give some brief, vague thoughts on what I think are the biggest, baddest threats.

 

[spoiler]

Absol

-I saw a LOT of signal beam, especially from the bulky psychics like mime and grumpig. Absol will have a place as a nice revenge killer that can pursuit trap a lot of psychics, but as long as signal beam remains popular, it'll have to be careful switching in. It's no UU Houndoom

 

Aggron

-CB set is very strong, though I think it's strong in UU as well. Pretty much counter's Jynx's main set, though without recovery it certainly can't come in repeatedly.

 

Ampharos

-I think this'll become one of the premeir pokes of the tier - the bulk is insane, as it can come in on almost anything on the special side and can even shrug off non-eq physical hits with some investment. Tbolt/HP coverage with the option to go physical with something like sub/punch means it has nice offensive pressure, too

 

Ariados

-lel sadly, still not viable. Even with the godly Agility/Endure/Bounce/Megahorn Swarm set.

 

Armaldo

-Really nice defensive pivot, as it's typing leaves it with only a handful of weaknesses. However, with very strong stab waterfalls plaguing the tier, it needs a core to be effective. One of the better rapid spinners in a spikes heavy tier, though, and a swords dance set can catch you off guard and lead to a sweep

 

Banette

-surprisingly effective, as it can serve a nice utility role with trick/will-o-wisp/pain split/destiny bond or a combination of those. It's hurting for a physical stab, but I saw one used specially with shadow ball and it still chips away at the bulky psychics in the tier

 

Bellossom

-didn't see or use, but am interested in how it'll be used - fully defensive wall? special defensive wall? Sun sweeper?

 

Cacturne

-again, didn't see it used - my feeling is, it's outclassed as a spiker by glalie/roselia, but it's got a nice typing that sees resistances to anything sharpedo/whiscash can throw at you (aside from mixed sharpedo). Will probably be a nice lead option

 

Chimecho

-didn't use one but saw it a lot, seems to be a nice cleric, though ultra susceptible to a strong pursuit user like absol

 

Cradily

-not sure what to think on this one - without storm drain, it's still vulnerable to strong stab waterfalls, and with hitmontop looking like a very common option, it's viability will take a hit

 

Electabuzz

-built one but didn't use it. Still, lightning fast (hue) and the option to go mixed with cross chop. Decent special coverage in tbolt/signal beam/hidden power. I think this'll start to see a decent amount of usage, especially since I know old UU players are dying to dust off their old buzz's

 

Electrode

-I saw etrode used very effectively by senile, and I think it's a fantastic utility pokemon and a soild lead. Fast taunt user, can set up screens, rain, sun, w/e you need it to. Stab tbolt is nothing to scoff at, and with limited viable ghosts, explosion can tear holes in the tier.

 

Glalie

-best spiker in the tier imo. Will see a lot of use as a suicide lead, though it's versatile enough to serve other roles too. Old NU players will be very familiar with glalie, so I expect to see a ton of him

 

Golduck

-I think golduck is a solid and possibly overlooked option. Nice natural bulk, few weaknesses, and a very fast encore mean it can set up calm minds relatively easily, and it'll be a nice addition to teams worried about sun sweepers like victreebell and bello.

 

Grumpig

-Fat, bulky, and common. Calm mind set could be a problem, though you can always phaze with your own grumpig hue

 

Hitmonchan

-didn't see it much, if at all. I think it'll be overshadowed by it's brother...

 

Hitmontop

-Will be everywhere. I still mantain that it's not an S rank, maybe low A or high B since it's recovery is awful and it hits like a feather without attack investment. But it slots in on a bunch of teams and can handle a lot of physical attackers

 

Jumpluff

-ugh, annoying as hell. I think it'll go

 

Jynx

-Not just annoying, but just mind bogglingly broken. Lovely kiss means if you brought just 1 Jynx answer, you lose. Plus, phazing is difficult when jynx is most effective late game - I orchestrated a massive comeback against thinknice in a game I had no business winning, just by mindlessly setting up w/jynx. Let's get her outta here

 

Kabutops

-very effective in this meta - can be used as a CBer to chip away at the other team, or you can save it for late game and set up a swords dance. Flail set was effective but, much like hera in OU, I think a SD+3 attack set can also be really effective. Do the strong grass types keep it in check? We'll see

 

Kecleon

-I didn't personally use one but I saw it a few times and it looks like it'll be very interesting to play with, and effective at its job.

 

Lapras

-Pretty strong - maybe too strong honestly. Can run a few different sets effectively, but the rock/fighting weakness doesn't help. Still, not many moves 1hko this monster, even stab rock/fighting.

 

Mantine

-by itself, maybe not that impressive. But what I love about mantine, is that it meshes really well with a wide variety of pokemon. Weak to electric and rock, but resists fighting and fire, immune to water and ground, and shrugs off grass/ice/pretty much any other special attack. Pair it with something like Muk, or hitmontop, or sandslash, etc etc, and youve got a nice core

 

 

*will finish this later with the rest of the pokes in the spoiler - the only other ones I saw/used*

[spoiler]Mr.Mime

Muk

 

Nidoking

Nidoqueen

Ninetales

 

Pikachu

 

Primeape

 

Raichu

 

Sableye

Sandslash

 

Sharpedo

 

Shiftry

 

 

Tropius

 

Venomoth

 

Walrein

Whiscash

 

Zangoose[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

 

To further add on:

Any Bellosom I saw used was very bulky, sometimes a sub seed set. Isn't as effective as Jumpluff  and is stopped very easily by grass types

 

Cacturne was a very nice spiker and doesnt carry Glalies dreaded ice type defensively, if your not looking for suicide spikers he's your man.

 

Cradily was monstrous when I used it. Curse set is amazing and it eats up hits extremely well, also has access to recovery. Although unless it's carrying rest, a toxic will put this suction cupped pokemon back in it's ball.

 

Hitmonchan is a decent banded option with access to the elemental punches, eq and priotity, resists many of the banded rock types out there but does fall back on power in some cases.

 

Everything else I'm pretty on board with

[gbwead]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shedinja_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_IV_learnset#By_TM.2FHM
ninjask can learn it before it turns into shedninja as lvl up move or tutor. when they split shedninja will know sd.
kinda but see above

I just checked Shedinja can't learn SD as an egg move or as a tutor move.

 

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/23/1433620014-sword-dance-shedinja.png

Edited June 6, 2015 by lamerb

[Pyroface]

I just checked Shedinja can't learn SD as an egg move or as a tutor move.

 

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/23/1433620014-sword-dance-shedinja.png

 

in the regular pokemon games if you hold the evolution to when your ninjask also learns SD as it evolves, it will also give SD to the Shedinja. Just happens that in this, Shedinja gets put in your party immediately after the evo and it misses the chance to get SD which is incredibly lame

Edited June 6, 2015 by Pyroface

[Blue]

After some consideration we, the NU council, have decided to quick ban Jynx from the NU tier to BL2. Jynx  have access to Calm Mind and dual STAB moves Ice Beam and Psychic which makes it almost impossible to counter. Metang is one of the very few counters to it but other than countering Jynx it doesnt serve any further use in the tier. In addition Jynx can access moves like Lovely Kiss, Shadow Ball, Fake Tears and Substitute making it even harder to counter and predict. It provides a rather easy sweep without much effort at all. Therefore Jynx is now banned from NU tier to BL2.

[DoubleJ]

Hidden power Jynx too good too. Hood move nu council.