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Preliminary NU Tier

Noad

By Noad
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Blue
Blue

After some consideration we, the NU council, have decided to quick ban Jynx from the NU tier to BL2. Jynx  have access to Calm Mind and dual STAB moves Ice Beam and Psychic which makes it almost impos

Noad
Noad

Based on the UU usage that has been collected over the past month, we have made a cut off point to separate UU and NU using the same 4.36% that was used in OU. Below I have put together a list of Poke

OldKeith
OldKeith

To everyone complaining about the new NU, and how this looks like old UU, I am really sorry that you feel that way, but that is how tiers are supposed to work. Tiers exist to provide alternatives to m

DoubleJ

DoubleJ

Posted
Posted

I remember how a lot of people were ranting about the new usage based system, how it would probably not give balance etc.. Here we are with one of the most exciting looking tier wop

 

(also LF fix in UU)

 

Well we are yet to see brah. Honestly, OU is stale and UU is crap. This has promise, but like UU it might just end up with a ban list 20 pokes long. I mean c'mon, the mighty Nik does sit on the NU Council and you know how he is.

 

=)

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted (edited)

Alright, I'll guess I have to Agree Jynx being S rank NU at the absolute minimum. I thought of collecting some calcs here to see how many Pokemon actually counters Jynx and how many does work after getting a predicted switch in.

Alright, let's first talk about the moveset on Jynx. Psychic and Ice Beam are obviously the mandatory moves. Lovely Kiss also seems just way too good to have a free turn even when the sleep is nerfed. Then the last move is basically a selection between Calm Mind, Shadow Ball and Hidden Power and the Hidden Power I find the most viable for it is Fighting. Despite of the even speed IV it requires. The problem is that when you take Hidden Power Fighting into consideration, Jynx seems next to unstoppable. Another thing about Jynx is that I personally think it should be Timid as the glass cannon it is but you just can't 100% disregard a Modest variant which power would be just even more devastating. 

 

Jynx calc time leggo.


Oh gawd I hate the font that automatically comes when I link the calcs but just try to survive reading this. A huge wall of text calcs coming, watch out.

[spoiler]
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Absol: 112-133 (79.4 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 83-98 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Absol only works on predicted Psychic to switch in and beat Jynx 1v1, however even at the best case scenario Jynx will hit Absol with an average power 87ish%. That is insane.


Aggron.. which would seem like a perfect counter to Jynx if HP wasn't all special now...
 
252 SpA Jynx Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 224-264 (126.5 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 82-97 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ampharos DOES get Iron Tail but let's be realistic about the situation so the best viable move against it:
 
252+ SpA Ampharos Signal Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jynx: 90-108 (63.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


3HKO vs a 2HKO. I guess you could say Ampharos is a counter for beating Jynx after switching in but not like it _forces_ switches as it barely can live another hit after this encounter.
 
 
Armaldo is a counter ONLY if it's a specially defensively invested supporter. Which is too situational to consider it a check. A "normal" 252 HP one will get 2HKOd by Ice Beam/Psychic.


Armaldo can switch into Jynx only if it's minimum of 252 HP and 100 Sp. Def. Which isn't too dumb investment to begin with but Modest exists. And rip then.

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Armaldo: 79-94 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 94-112 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Camerupt doesn't even check it.

 

 

 

A max Sp. Def Careful Curse Cradily won't for heaven's forbid check it.

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 104-126 (53.8 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Electabuzz: 85-102 (60.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Electabuzz Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 106-126 (75.1 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I ain't Attack investing my Buzz, that's for sure.


The Wall-lie works only as a special def Wallie.

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 85-102 (45.4 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Glalie: 58-70 (31 - 37.4%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Glalie Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 112-132 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

Grumpig actually is a counter. Whirlwind scares a CM spam, Shadow Ball kills it. Thick Fat OP.

FIRST HARD COUNTER ON THE WHOLE LIST with alphabetical order.



Kecleon works. But it should run some Attack investment alright. Or Iron Tail. But

>Iron Tail
 

 

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52+ SpD Kecleon: 57-67 (34.1 - 40.1%) -- 38.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

200 Atk Kecleon Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 142-168 (100.7 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

 

Well, a counter regardless. But also fits in the category "pretty much ded and useless after switching into this".

 

 

 

Lapras works only if a physical Dragon Dancer. Just does not do overall enough damage after Calm Minds.

252+ SpA Lapras Surf vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Jynx: 48-57 (34 - 40.4%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lapras: 111-132 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Sp. Def Lickitung works but it's probably worse than Kecleon.

 

 

Luna better have some Sp. Def bulk..

 

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lunatone: 85-102 (48 - 57.6%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Lunatone AncientPower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jynx: 96-114 (68 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and just overall "meh." But I guess it can work as a check.


For the love of... not even Ninetales work unless it super predicts Ice Beam and gets a high damage roll or runs Fire Blast. Well let's just disregard shit accuracy and run it to OHKO Jynx I guess.

 

252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jynx: 158-188 (112 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales: 72-85 (48.3 - 57%) -- 40.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Fire Blast one is a counter, which can switch even to Psychic at worst case scenario. Flamethrower one will not reliable OHKO and Psychic can 2HKO with quite a chance.


I Reli-can'th believe this

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Relicanth: 100-118 (48.3 - 57%) -- 42.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

 

and to mention Relicanths shouldn't probably even be 252 HP.


Sharpedo needs to switch on Psychic or win the speed tie. So Idk what to call this one.

 

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 75-88 (51.3 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Oh yeah and this one too

 

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Torkoal: 93-111 (52.5 - 62.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Alright that's pretty much all the not obvious calcs. Something like "Mach Punch Chan switching on Ice Beam" is kinda pointless to calc since too much of a risk. Also so many faster than Jynx Pokemon have hard/impossible to switch in on Jynx (Scyther, Crobat, Jumpluff to name a few) and everything else just gets like 2HKOd. And the overall damage input it just makes is just... insane.

Yeah, I can totally see why you people want this thing gone to be honest. Well, the thing with Jynx is that it exactly isn't the best 1v1 Pokemon as it physical defensively paper so it can lose to some stuff 1v1 that isn't weak to Ice Beam/Psychic. The main problem is that pretty much nothing switches onto this. So if Jynx user wants something ded, it can get it. And when it sees a not pleasant 1v1 encounter, just switch it out.

[/spoiler]
Edited by OrangeManiac
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YagamiNoir

YagamiNoir

Posted
Posted (edited)

0 Atk Politoed Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 78-93 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 51-61 (25.8 - 30.9%) -- 7.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252/252+ Waterfall Rest/Talk Politoed legit counter srs, just be thankful this thing doesn't get Dry Skin yet. 

 

EDIT: Kecleon's not bad, Orange, apart from the Sleep, since it has Recover and regardless of type change Return can still 2HKO it:

 

Bulky Ninetales is also a thing, although I suppose you get too stuck on the sweeper; with a set of 152 HP/100 Special Attack/252 Speed (you don't have to always max Speed but ok, you get to barely live two Psychics while having a 75% chance of OHKOing with Fire Blast. 

 

0 Atk Kecleon no STAB Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 77-91 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Edited by YagamiNoir
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Kizhaz

Kizhaz

Posted
Posted

Was Kekleons return calced w/out stab? After the ice beam he will be ice type.

I havent lost to a jynx yet, although the times I battled it I either had a grumpig or camerupt + ampharos with sp.def investment along with hitmonchans mach punch. When I played it w/out grumpig it started shitting on my team until I pulled off a mach punch, but by then the battle had turned, barely beat coolio after it :3

Jynx forces you to bring a grumpig and should be quickbanned

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YagamiNoir

YagamiNoir

Posted
Posted (edited)

Was Kekleons return calced w/out stab? 

 

 

0 Atk Kecleon no STAB Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 77-91 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

EDIT: No need to be so desperate Orange:

 

28+ Atk Kecleon Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 130-154 (92.1 - 109.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Edited by YagamiNoir
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YagamiNoir

YagamiNoir

Posted
Posted (edited)

Guys over looking the true god of nu, you are welcome.

124 Atk Mawile Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 134-158 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 126+ SpD Mawile: 45-53 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 98.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 126+ SpD Mawile: 45-53 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 98.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


 

Fixed. Mawile doesn't get Fire Punch, it only gets Fire Fang in later gens. It gets ThunderPunch and Ice Punch, but not Fire Punch. Inb4 I'm wrong, but I've checked most sources. Even then, Crunch is better anyway and you get to run +Special Defense instead of +Attack to top that off. 

 

EDIT: While we're at it let's put Metang on the table (although some people may say >Metang), since it x4 resists Psychic and it's actually one of the things we were looking forward to when "NU" came by. 

Edited by YagamiNoir
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KingBowser

KingBowser

Posted
Posted

Fixed. Mawile doesn't get Fire Punch, it only gets Fire Fang in later gens. It gets ThunderPunch and Ice Punch, but not Fire Punch. Inb4 I'm wrong, but I've checked most sources. Even then, Crunch is better anyway and you get to run +Special Defense instead of +Attack to top that off. 

Ty :)

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Senile

Senile

Posted
Posted

Fixed. Mawile doesn't get Fire Punch, it only gets Fire Fang in later gens. It gets ThunderPunch and Ice Punch, but not Fire Punch. Inb4 I'm wrong, but I've checked most sources. Even then, Crunch is better anyway and you get to run +Special Defense instead of +Attack to top that off. 
 
EDIT: While we're at it let's put Metang on the table (although some people may say >Metang), since it x4 resists Psychic and it's actually one of the things we were looking forward to when "NU" came by.


Idk who was looking forward to Metang. The thing is garbage. Okay, it comes in on Jynx, but since it's not threatening whatsoever it doesn't really matter, you just switch to something else. Metang is not worth using.

Shoutout to Diglett for trapping and killing literally half of Jynx's answers.
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YagamiNoir

YagamiNoir

Posted
Posted (edited)

Idk who was looking forward to Metang. The thing is garbage. Okay, it comes in on Jynx, but since it's not threatening whatsoever it doesn't really matter, you just switch to something else. Metang is not worth using.

Shoutout to Diglett for trapping and killing literally half of Jynx's answers.

I mean, if NU was, well..."the old NU" where things like NFE Seadra and stuff were standard and bad and all, Metang would've been good. Obviously with all this stuff in NU it's a different story. I put the quotation marks for a reason. 

Edited by YagamiNoir
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londark

londark

Posted
Posted

DD Pupitar was already used a little in the old NU

Also

252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Torkoal: 135-159 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Flame wheel is close to be a 100% OHKO with 0 Atk EVs ( lvl 100 calcs )

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Kizhaz

Kizhaz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Too bad Metang and Mawile are ansolute garbage and there is no reason to use them putside of Jynx, unhealthy much.

Li havent seen Torkoal be effecrive either.

 

Torkoal is actually a great physical wall with access to rapid spin, although I've never seen nor wanted to use a special defensive set tbh

 

Possibly just not the right typing to stop the current physical threats

Edited by Kizhaz
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ThinkNice

ThinkNice

Posted
Posted (edited)

Torkoal is actually a great physical wall with access to rapid spin, although I've never seen nor wanted to use a special defensive set tbh

Possibly just not the right typing to stop the current physical threats

Torkoal can't stop Kabutops or Nidoking which are the main physical mons I saw.

Edit: and shark Edited by ThinkNice
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gbwead

gbwead

Posted
Posted

Idk who was looking forward to Metang. The thing is garbage. Okay, it comes in on Jynx, but since it's not threatening whatsoever it doesn't really matter, you just switch to something else. Metang is not worth using.

Shoutout to Diglett for trapping and killing literally half of Jynx's answers.

Well the thing with metang is that is can trap jynx with pursuit quite well. Metang sucks, but surprisingly not against jynx.

 

Adamant Metang with chesto berry

172+ Atk Metang Pursuit vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 70-84 (49.6 - 59.5%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 228 HP / 108 SpD Metang: 59-69 (35.9 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

Careful Metang with BlackGlasses

88 Atk BlackGlasses Metang Pursuit vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 70-84 (49.6 - 59.5%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 172+ SpD Metang: 50-59 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 26.7% chance to 3HKO

 

In all instances, Metang can either kill Jynx with meteormash or use psych to set up on calm mind if Jynx doesn't switch.

 

Jynx should be ban anyways. Being forced to play a shitty pokemon like Metang is ridiculous.

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ThinkNice

ThinkNice

Posted
Posted

Well, in all fairness. Metang is only 35 base stat total under Jynx. It's not THAT bad. But I can't still argue against that the fact you would run this would be mainly for Jynx and the fact that would be quite unhealthy.

Base stat total is a really bad way pf comparing Pokemon just sayin' it adds nothing relevant to the discussion idk why people bring it up sometimes. But yeah ofc O agree with the rest of your post. LF Nasty Plot Jynx
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YagamiNoir

YagamiNoir

Posted
Posted

Well the thing with metang is that is can trap jynx with pursuit quite well. Metang sucks, but surprisingly not against jynx.

 

Adamant Metang with chesto berry

172+ Atk Metang Pursuit vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 70-84 (49.6 - 59.5%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 228 HP / 108 SpD Metang: 59-69 (35.9 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

If Metang with Chesto Berry switches in and because sleep-free, since Jynx outspeeds Metang, it can just put it back to sleep again. There's no reason to run a berry apart from very mildly increasing the miss chances or something. 

 

In any case, though, I'm pretty sure it can fit the criteria to go. 

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted (edited)

Base stat total is a really bad way pf comparing Pokemon just sayin' it adds nothing relevant to the discussion idk why people bring it up sometimes. But yeah ofc O agree with the rest of your post. LF Nasty Plot Jynx

 

 

Well, I didn't find it necessarily to say the obvious how much a physical defensive tank role filler it can be and that Stab Meteor Mash is pretty stronk and how it gets quite a nice moveset and all. I just felt that people are afraid of every NFE Pokemon even though they wouldn't actually be that bad. I was more responding the my post above saying Metang is "shitty".

Edited by OrangeManiac
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