[NU Discussion] Venusaur

[DoubleJ]

Stronk, but not broken. Looking forward to it naturally moving to UU by usage regardless. Praise be to Ninetales.

[Imperial]

27 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Stronk, but not broken. Looking forward to it naturally moving to UU by usage regardless. Praise be to Ninetales.

Genuine question and not having a dig, how come the members of Tier Council would rather wait for something to rise by usage instead of voting on it even after enough time has passed? Venomoth is a good example, despite having enough time to evaluate it people left it and it rose to UU, now it's dropping back to NU we still don't know whether it's staying or getting banned to BL2.

[caioxlive13]

5 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Genuine question and not having a dig, how come the members of Tier Council would rather wait for something to rise by usage instead of voting on it even after enough time has passed? Venomoth is a good example, despite having enough time to evaluate it people left it and it rose to UU, now it's dropping back to NU we still don't know whether it's staying or getting banned to BL2.

That's a solid point Imperial. What if Ninetales ended up banned from UU, due to Sun(And most probablly will because sun if aren't now, will be broken in UU(Rain is a threat but once it's gone sun will become one.), however Venusaur is not worthy banning from UU, after all once he is banned Exxegutor would take his place and still wreck havoc on UU.)? If happen Venusaur is coming back to NU. Will we face same issue than we had with Venomoth?

[Munya]

21 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Genuine question and not having a dig, how come the members of Tier Council would rather wait for something to rise by usage instead of voting on it even after enough time has passed? Venomoth is a good example, despite having enough time to evaluate it people left it and it rose to UU, now it's dropping back to NU we still don't know whether it's staying or getting banned to BL2.

Venomoth only dropped for a month and before the test had a chance to conclude it rose on its own, if it ends up being a problem then it can follow the normal process for a ban.

[caioxlive13]

4 minutes ago, Munya said:

Venomoth only dropped for a month and before the test had a chance to conclude it rose on its own, if it ends up being a problem then it can follow the normal process for a ban.

Since HAs started releasing TC had struggled to finish suspects. First bunch of HAs, they failed to conclude Serperior, Feraligatr and Machamp's suspects, because the tier changed too much during them. 

[Munya]

3 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Since HAs started releasing TC had struggled to finish suspects. First bunch of HAs, they failed to conclude Serperior, Feraligatr and Machamp's suspects, because the tier changed too much during them. 

What are you even talking about, all of those suspect tests ended

[caioxlive13]

2 minutes ago, Munya said:

What are you even talking about, all of those suspect tests ended

They was "completed", but let's be honest, most of them lead to nothing, how you could evaluate something on a tier if the tier changes every 12 days? The suspected ended because tier council couldn't make any progress onto them since evaluate them was almost impossible.

[DoubleJ]

@Imperial Venusaur was a peculiar pokemon to evaluate and we needed some extra time, then usage changed everything. If it ever drops again, we'll probably vote unless things are drastically different. We are also taking into consideration where Ninetales drops to eventually, but that's a slow process.

[Imperial]

17 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

@Imperial Venusaur was a peculiar pokemon to evaluate and we needed some extra time, then usage changed everything. If it ever drops again, we'll probably vote unless things are drastically different. We are also taking into consideration where Ninetales drops to eventually, but that's a slow process.

I completely understand about Venusaur since Gigalith was restricting it from the main concern of Chlorophyll, although the standard set seemed pretty strong in the tier (definitely A+ at least).

 

I was more curious about stuff like Venomoth. 

[Azphiel]

I don't believe chlorophyll Venusaur was too much for NU anyways

 

Sun was always a pain to set up, could be removed by Gigalith, and Venusaur could rarely come on the field for free. Also there are plenty of mons that could check it, For example AV Eelektross switches on any moves and threatens KO with sun boosted fthrower, AV Hitmonchan switches on any moves, Golbat switches on both stabs. You could revenge kill it with Blaziken, Houndoom, Ice shard Pilo, Ninjask etc... Venusaur mostly needs to Growth once to threaten serious damage, but I trust you won't let it growth for free

I've seen some people using Memento Vulpix and going all in for the Venusaur sweep, it rarely worked.

 

In the end we see 25% Chlorophyll usage on Venusaur, and I suspect that half of the Chlorophyll users didn't even use sun anyway (11% lifeorb usage). It's just not that great

[ChronoRike]

As a NU ladder spammer Venusaur isn’t a huge thing in the tier since as the rain teams instead of uu and ou, Nu lack of a mon that his hab set the sun or something like that also in how the meta is going I don’t see Venusaur in sun or smth huge its a bit frustrating playing vs but nothing more than that Bronzor a fire type mon golbat pursuit mons like honch or doom make him struggle

[razimove]

I dont like a bunch of the examples that Azphiel showed like eel and chan, since at best those check venusaur and still wont consistently enter onto rocks + offensive moves a lot (ill confirm this with calcs as soon as im not on mobile)

 

I do agree however that usage becomes a bit more limited when there isnt a decent setter on the tier and personally think venusaur strength isnt chloro set for NU.

 

 

Was reading about 9tales dropping slowly, but I honestly think that if we get gen9 update anytime soon it might see new usage in UU and even OU since it will be getting a more supportive movepool and a way to pivot out.

Edited September 25, 2023 by razimove