[OU Discussion] Hydreigon

[LeJovi]

1 hour ago, DoubleJ said:

With advances in defensive play over the years, PokeMMO has really nerfed wallbreaking to the point that common walls really had little to fear and well built defensive cores (or entire teams)  could withstand most archetypes. Assault Gear, Regenerator, Magic Guard, Levitate, Cursed Body, berries and other held items have really boosted defenses to the point that there are very few wallbreakers that can OHKO a mon that simply waits to be healed by a teammate.

 

So I do appreciate when players comment on the benefits of Draco Meteor, which does help the TC better understand if it's competitive and healthy, or simply broken and/or unhealthy.

 

(We could also discuss nerfing gems which have been a huge boost for offense, and makes Draco Meteor even more fearsome.)

Or we could also just focus on having a complete metagame instead of having to nerf xyz. 

[DoubleJ]

3 minutes ago, LeJovi said:

Or we could also just focus on having a complete metagame instead of having to nerf xyz. 

Go play a simulator brosky, these devs need to make theirs. One year at a time. Come back in 2055.

[LeJovi]

14 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Go play a simulator brosky, these devs need to make theirs. One year at a time. Come back in 2055.

Please don't tell me what to do. 

[DoubleJ]

Draco Meteor was added back to Hydreigon's movepool almost 2 months ago and the Tier Council is nearing a vote. Overall, this move has proven to be devastating and is certainly questionable in our current meta. 

 

Consider this a notice to provide any last thoughts on this topic before the TC makes a final decision in the coming days to weeks. 

[Doctor]

Nothing that hasn't been already discussed, but as a vote for stripping it of Draco Meteor, I just wanna say something. Beyond all specific calculations, Hydreigon with its already great movepool plus the threat of DM makes it almost impossible to switch into without giving up a pokémon no matter your playstyle most of the time, or at the very least cripple one or two badly enough only for it to just pivot away and wait for another momentum-induced forced switch out into losing another mon; either that or it's able to succesfuly set up rocks/taunt after dropping the Draco and pretending to be choice locked, whatever. I think it's gonna be healthier both from a gameplay and also a teambuilding perspective.

[Clastia]

My time with DM Hydreigon has been really limited due to IRL and so it's mostly been in the builder I've felt it, but both in game and in the builder it feels incredibly limiting. Basically everything I say here has already been said, but Hydreigon doesn't really have a true counter with DM access. It just comes in, threatens, and either nukes or will do something crazy like click NP/Sub/WU/FE/fill. Even the uber bulkies of the tier aren't safe since they can just be worn down via hazard chip or consecutive DM/coverage uses, or it can just surprise them with stuff like Flame/FBlast/Superpower, or if incredibly desperate it can just click U-turn and punish with a partner like Garchomp/Scizor/TTar/Infernape/Gallade/etc that can cause problems on their own anyway. The fact that every set it uses is already borderline is another factor, as you now have to win the guessing game of "is this Specs, Scarf, NP, or other" along with what coverage move they have. It's not even like Pokemon that could handle Draco/FBlast 2A exist anyway at large in the current metagame (which is like AV Metagross aka not that real and hates Flamethrower, P2 bc it can live a +2 FBlast before hazards and TP/Ibeam but its got a 1% usage rate, and Chansey but thats super mid off of bulkier builds tbqh), and the fact that it has more options than just this with really good bulk and even Roost for surprise healing on an offensive Pokemon is way too much. Dragon Pulse was much healthier when it could only use that, and it'll still be an extremely potent wallbreaker, stallbreaker, hazard setter/remover (kinda, this is more like a BO/Offense thing), and revenge killer without requiring the godliest of reads to safely pilot against.

Edited January 30 by Clastia

[gbwead]

Hydreigon could be nerfed in various ways imo:

• Removing Draco Meteor
• Removing Nasty Plot 
• Removing Focus Blast
• Removing Taunt
• etc.

Choosing the right nerf is as important as choosing to nerf in the first place. TC, please think this through.

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

Hydreigon could be nerfed in various ways imo:

• Removing Draco Meteor
• Removing Nasty Plot 
• Removing Focus Blast
• Removing Taunt
• etc.

Choosing the right nerf is as important as choosing to nerf in the first place. TC, please think this through.

let's not do the Wobbufet Mistake. What maked Hydrei OP now is Draco Meteor, so let's remove Draco Meteor. Nasty plot out and Mixed sets/Choice sets will still be a problem. Focus Blast, mixed mons still a problem. Taunt, people use this? Anyway, NP without taunt, Choice and Mixed sets won't get impacted. Also, before Draco Hydrei was not op with any other move. (I Call wobbufet mistake because on the past Wobbufet was OP with Tickle and Shadow Tag. Before tickle, was UT. So the right nerf would be take away tickle. And they decide to nerf Shadow Tag.)

Edited January 30 by caioxlive13

[DoubleJ]

With the introduction of the Unova region and with it Hydreigon, the Tier Council and PokeMMO community agreed that Draco Meteor would be a problem. Draco Meteor, a 130 BP Dragon-Type move with 90% Accuracy and a devastating -2 SpAtt drop with each use, becomes a nuclear bomb when utilized by Hydreigon and its 125 SpAtt stat; mitigating the SpAtt drop as it does its job in one turn more often than not. A ban was implemented and Draco Meteor was removed from Hydreigon's learnset. 

 

Fast forward to today and Hydreigon spamming Draco Meteor is still a problem, even despite the introduction of Assault Gear and a more offensive oriented meta. 

 

After a thorough test, the TC has unanimously voted to once again ban Draco Meteor from competitive play.

 

Of note, senior developers have opted to complex ban Draco Meteor and only remove it from singles. Hydreigon will still have access to Draco Meteor in Doubles.

Edited January 31 by DoubleJ